How can we know if we are born again?

Aaron112 · Nov 30, 2024

Zceptre said:
Touche.

But to be irrational is wholly worse.

Many messengers of the Creator are called irrational, and to the world we are irrational - they cannot understand the truth.

timothyu · Nov 30, 2024

Aaron112 said:
they cannot understand the truth.

That's what happens when the majority of mankind runs on backward logic and the wisdom of the 2nd commandment goes right over people's heads.

th1bill · Nov 30, 2024

I knew I was saved the moment Ruah indwelt me, and my KJV no longer was a mystery but made perfect sense. I know I am saved because I want to be closer to Yehovah, Yashuah ha'Mashiah, and Ruah. If you cannot tell if you are saved, pray, read Scripture, or, in short, move back towards Yah.

Mark Quayle · Dec 1, 2024

This is just another of many reasons to believe that we are what GOD says we are and we are whatever he has in mind to use us for. What we are is in HIS mind —not ours.

fhansen · Dec 7, 2024

JohnB445 said:
How can we know if we actually believe and it's not just a mere profession of faith held in our neurons?

How can we know we truly experienced the Holy Spirit and not our consciousness making the experience?

And how do we know if the dictionary and definitions have been changed by satan or someone?

Is it bad that I am such a fierce rationalist, like Rene Descartes?

By your love-of God and neighbor. That's the surest evidence of change in us. Love, and the fruit it naturally produces.

The Liturgist · Dec 7, 2024

fhansen said:
By your love-of God and neighbor. That's the surest evidence of change in us. Love, and the fruit it naturally produces.

Indeed.

However, as for whether or not someone has been born again, this is literally just a question of being baptized into the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, however one defines this (for example, evangelicals will define it as being invisible and consisting of all the Christian faithful, while Baptists and Congregationalists will define it as consisting of the local church, Roman Catholics define it as those churches in communion with the Pope in Rome, most Orthodox define it based on the criteria for apostolic succession of St. Cyprian of Carthage, whereas Anglicans, Assyrians, Old Catholics and a minority of Orthodox will define it based on the apostolic succession criteria of St. Augustine or a related form of “branch ecclesiology,” and Lutherans will tend define it in a manner similiar to the view of St. Cyprian albeit without a requirement for direct apostolic succession or an episcopate, but rather, as consisting of wherever the Word and Sacrament are ministered (thus, St. Cyprian requires Orthodoxy and apostolic succession from only Orthodox bishops, whereas Lutherans require only varying degrees of Orthodoxy, where in both cases, Orthodoxy is understood to mean “right-glorification” or what Church Slavonic calls pravoslavie as opposed to “correct belief.”

timothyu · Dec 7, 2024

And yet Jesus said they of the synagogues all appeared to be clean on the outside but were filthy on the inside. Nothing changes in the religious business.

fhansen · Dec 7, 2024

The Liturgist said:
Indeed.

However, as for whether or not someone has been born again, this is literally just a question of being baptized into the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, however one defines this (for example, evangelicals will define it as being invisible and consisting of all the Christian faithful, while Baptists and Congregationalists will define it as consisting of the local church, Roman Catholics define it as those churches in communion with the Pope in Rome, most Orthodox define it based on the criteria for apostolic succession of St. Cyprian of Carthage, whereas Anglicans, Assyrians, Old Catholics and a minority of Orthodox will define it based on the apostolic succession criteria of St. Augustine or a related form of “branch ecclesiology,” and Lutherans will tend define it in a manner similiar to the view of St. Cyprian albeit without a requirement for direct apostolic succession or an episcopate, but rather, as consisting of wherever the Word and Sacrament are ministered (thus, St. Cyprian requires Orthodoxy and apostolic succession from only Orthodox bishops, whereas Lutherans require only varying degrees of Orthodoxy, where in both cases, Orthodoxy is understood to mean “right-glorification” or what Church Slavonic calls pravoslavie as opposed to “correct belief.”

The RCC actually recognizes baptism by most other denominations as valid as long as the form is correct and they're of Nicene beliefs, which is why the RCC will never rebaptize converts from those backgrounds. But the RCC also knows that this is only the beginning, of a journey, in any case. So, if we're not living as children of God should then we probably aren't His, or we've departed from Him.

And as the OP is asking about evidence, our love and resulting actions speak loudest. And this is why the church, concisely summing up the criteria for our "particular judgment", can teach, quoting a 16th century believer:
"At the evening of life we shall be judged on our love."

The Liturgist · Dec 7, 2024

fhansen said:
The RCC actually recognizes baptism by most other denominations as valid as long as the form is correct and they're of Nicene beliefs, which is why the RCC will never rebaptize converts from those backgrounds. But the RCC also knows that this is only the beginning, of a journey, in any case. So, if we're not living as children of God should then we probably aren't His, or we've departed from Him.

And as the OP is asking about evidence, our love and resulting actions speak loudest. And this is why the church, concisely summing up the criteria for our "particular judgment", can teach, quoting a 16th century believer:
"At the evening of life we shall be judged on our love."

The canonical Eastern Orthodox also do this from Christologicaly right-believing churches. I found a nice article from an Antiochian Orthodox priest here: Receiving Converts into the Orthodox Church. Fr. Lawrence Farley

The Liturgist · Dec 7, 2024

timothyu said:
And yet Jesus said they of the synagogues all appeared to be clean on the outside but were filthy on the inside. Nothing changes in the religious business.

I trust you are not accusing all Christian churches of such, since Christ our True God, promised us that the gates of Hell would not prevail against the Church, and it would be a huge slur to persecuted Christians in the Middle East and Pakistan, many of whom are members of very ancient churches which have never persecuted anyone.

timothyu · Dec 7, 2024

He said it.

fhansen · Dec 7, 2024

The Liturgist said:
I trust you are not accusing all Christian churches of such, since Christ our True God, promised us that the gates of Hell would not prevail against the Church, and it would be a huge slur to persecuted Christians in the Middle East and Pakistan, many of whom are members of very ancient churches which have never persecuted anyone.

True enough, and yet we'll also find no perfectly sinless members- of any church, or perfectly sinless believers outside the church either for that matter. So we all need to keep in mind Jesus's words in Matt 23: to keep working on washing our robes with the ever-present help of grace.

fhansen · Dec 7, 2024

The Liturgist said:
The canonical Eastern Orthodox also do this from Christologicaly right-believing churches. I found a nice article from an Antiochian Orthodox priest here: Receiving Converts into the Orthodox Church. Fr. Lawrence Farley

That was a good read. It's refreshing to hear wisdom, especially when Chrisitan fathers of many centuries past can be referenced for it.

The Liturgist · Dec 7, 2024

timothyu said:
He said it.

About synagogues plural, by which he was referring to those places where the Pharisees and later on their Rabinnical successors would deny Him, not the Church singular.

Regarding the Church, Christ promised the gates of Hell would not prevail against it, and the Holy Apostle Paul refers to the Church as the Body of Christ.

timothyu · Dec 7, 2024

The Liturgist said:
Christ promised the gates of Hell would not prevail against it

Yes, as He said that would be His church based on only truth from the Father and not from mankind. No middlemen needed.

fhansen · Dec 7, 2024

timothyu said:
Yes, as He said that would be His church based on only truth from the Father and not from mankind. No middlemen needed.

Ok, but how do you know that your truth is more accurate than, say, that of a particular denomination, or of another individual who diagrees with your interpretation while also maintaining that they're reflecting His word correctly with their beliefs? Aren't we all necesarily acting as middlemen as we try to discern His revelaltion?

timothyu · Dec 7, 2024

fhansen said:
how do you know that your truth

Their truths are based on the theology they have created to form yet another religion.

I said God's truth, not mine. Jesus was plain about the Gospel of the Kingdom and what it entailed. It bears repetition, not interpretation. It was an outright confirmation that man would no longer lord over fellow man and only God's will would be done in earth, not man's self serving will. (what God has repeated since the Garden). That we as living humans were to reject self interest in favour of loving all as self, caring for each other as a whole without gain because we're all sinners (self willed) and in this mess together.

He summed it up in two commandments, His words, the Father's truth, no interpretation required. No rejecting the Kingdom of the Father and joining and establishing more worldly governments contrary to the ways of the Kingdom ( as was done and without repentance to this day). He was quite plain but the notion of not playing man's game and by our rules, got Him killed and has been rejected ever since. Man still prefers the governments of man over God's, both secular and religious... using God rather than changing our ways to suit His will. Self interest remains the god of this world.

fhansen · Dec 7, 2024

timothyu said:
I said God's truth not mine.

And that's what they all say, whether or not they go on to establish a religion, or, perhaps more accurately, a church, with it. And without an organized visible body to carry on and preserve and proclaim the faith, there would arguably be no Christian faith today, certainly no Christian bible since it required men to assemble it's canon, deciding between writings to be considered inspired while throwing out those they determined were not. A certain group, such as those who came together in Jerusalem in Acts 15 to decide on matters of the faith, would later decide on controveries such as that posed by Arianism, which was poised to take over Christianity and already had in many parts of the Christian world. The Nicene creed and doctrines on the Trinity were produced there, which most Christians adhere to today, knowingly or not. The ancient churches simply believed and taught and practiced what they had received at the beginning, before the new testament was even written, incidentally, and the larger church met to protect and clarify that understanding as necessary, guided by the Holy Spirit.

timothyu · Dec 7, 2024

Yes man thought it necessary to control the narrative of what they created for themselves

Aaron112 · Dec 8, 2024

timothyu said:
Yes man thought it necessary to control the narrative of what they created for themselves

True

3.3K views · 887 reactions | Noone who has ever heard the true gospel and read their entire Bible.... Only to become a Catholic, a Mormon or Jehovah witness. They justify their beliefs through their feelings and by examining what other men have sai

Noone who has ever heard the true gospel and read their entire Bible.... Only to become a Catholic, a Mormon or Jehovah witness. They justify their beliefs through their feelings and by examining...

www.facebook.com

How can we know if we are born again?

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

A Believer/Follower

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist

Oldbie

Traditional Liturgical Christian

Well-Known Member

Oldbie

Traditional Liturgical Christian

Traditional Liturgical Christian

Well-Known Member

Oldbie

Oldbie

Traditional Liturgical Christian

Well-Known Member

Oldbie

Well-Known Member

Oldbie

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads