Some fact-Checking on Kamala Harris

Whyayeman said:

Why is this something worth our attention?

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Time magazine was trying to make some kind of claim that the two did not have a relationship.

I am not the OP who linked to this article, which has multiple false claims and problems

Merrill said:

Time magazine was trying to make some kind of claim that the two did not have a relationship.

I am not the OP who linked to this article, which has multiple false claims and problems

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OK. Have you any facts to counter the Time article? You seem sure of your position. Holding a woman's hand in a photograph is evidence of some kind of acquaintanceship and Time does not deny that. Nobody does.

What do you think their relationship is or was?

Whyayeman said:

OK. Have you any facts to counter the Time article? You seem sure of your position. Holding a woman's hand in a photograph is evidence of some kind of acquaintanceship and Time does not deny that. Nobody does.

What do you think their relationship is or was?

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Merrill said:

Time magazine was trying to make some kind of claim that the two did not have a relationship.

I am not the OP who linked to this article, which has multiple false claims and problems

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That was not the claim. the claim was:


i.e. that they were engaged in some kind of illicit affair while Williams was otherwise married. That claim is false. They were dating and in a consensual relationship, which is not news or relevant to anything. The only reason to even bring this up is to shame Harris using a forum prohibited slur often applied to women who have more than one relationship over the course of their lives that is not applied to men who do the same. The first claim is in line with that as well.

And again, how can Trump supporters even bring up anything about relationships, sex with other people, or any kind of immoral behavior when their guy was convicted of 34 felonies for payments he made to an adult film star with whom he had sex while his wife was pregnant with their child? It's insane to me that this should even be on the radar. If this innocuous fact about Harris somehow disqualifies her in anyway then convicted felon Trump is orders of magnitude less qualified.

iluvatar5150 said:

No, the piece does not claim it's false. What it does say is, "This is missing some important context."

But let's continue on with the "fact check."



The contention here is not that they weren't dating, but that she was his "side piece," a term that the article defines in a manner that's unclear at first glance. A "side piece" is "the other woman," implying that Williams was in a relationship with somebody else at the time. He claims he was not, that they were both single.

But let's continue on with the "fact check."



The actual quote is not incoherent, nor are most of the other quotes of hers I've recently seen described as "word salad." The actual quote could be restated as "It's important to be aware of the time in which we exist and to be able to contextualize it in relationship to both the past and the future."



It's not Time's fault you misunderstood most of the piece.

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Why did you have to restate the quote? That’s evidence that it is incoherent.

BPPLEE said:

Why did you have to restate the quote? That’s evidence that it is incoherent.

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I restated it for the folks apparently unable to parse sentences containing a bunch of clauses, to help them understand what it meant. That others are unable to parse it doesn't mean that the sentence is incoherent. It just means that it's beyond their comprehension.

Merrill said:

What Montel Williams Said About Dating Vice-President Elect Kamala Harris

People on social media today are blown away to discover Harris and Williams briefly dated nearly 20 years ago.

www.newsweek.com

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Hmm. 'They dated once'. That could mean they met on one occasion or 'for some time in the past'.

But what do you think?

iluvatar5150 said:

I restated it for the folks apparently unable to parse sentences containing a bunch of clauses, to help them understand what it meant. That others are unable to parse it doesn't mean that the sentence is incoherent. It just means that it's beyond their comprehension.

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The fact that one is incapable of communicating in a manner which people can easily understand is not an asset. It’s a handicap. You’re basically calling people stupid because they have a hard time making sense of what she says.

Whyayeman said:

Hmm. 'They dated once'. That could mean they met on one occasion or 'for some time in the past'.

But what do you think?

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I don’t care.

BPPLEE said:

The fact that one is incapable of communicating in a manner which people can easily understand is not an asset. It’s a handicap.

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Who says she's incapable? Perhaps she just assumed that her audience at the time had a level of English comprehension beyond that of those who are complaining.

BPPLEE said:

You’re basically calling people stupid because they have a hard time making sense of what she says.

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There's no "basically" about it. That's exactly what I'm doing. I'm just trying to be polite enough about it so as to not violate any forum rules. Most of the supposed "word salad" examples I've seen are no more complicated than what you'd find in a junior high English class. If an adult can't manage to parse that, the problem is theirs, not Harris'.

iluvatar5150 said:

Who says she's incapable? Perhaps she just assumed that her audience at the time had a level of English comprehension beyond that of those who are complaining.



There's no "basically" about it. That's exactly what I'm doing. I'm just trying to be polite enough about it so as to not violate any forum rules. Most of the supposed "word salad" examples I've seen are no more complicated than what you'd find in a junior high English class. If an adult can't manage to parse that, the problem is theirs, not Harris'.

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It’s amazing the hoops you’re jumping through to make her incompetence someone else’s lack of comprehension. Some of her “word salads” are comical.
You’re so in the tank for her that you defend her inability to communicate clearly and act as though it’s an asset.
Someone communicates like she’s trying to fill a word quota on a term paper and you call people stupid who call her out for it.
Is there an equivalent phrase for Harris supporters as MAGA extremist for Trump? Because that’s what we’re seeing.

iluvatar5150 said:

Who says she's incapable? Perhaps she just assumed that her audience at the time had a level of English comprehension beyond that of those who are complaining.

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BPPLEE is saying it. I don't know if she is incapable or not. But the fact is she does it. Word salad goofiness.

Which is why we will work together, and continue to work together, to address these issues, to tackle these challenges, and to work together as we continue to work operating from the new norms, rules, and agreements, that we will convene to work together … We will work together,” she added once more.

It may become more apparent as the campaign goes on. If she goes off the cuff. Which Trump does quite often.

So we'll see. But to pretend what she says is perfectly normal, English speech is a bit off. And in case you wish to bring up Trump, let me stop you there. He's no great orator either. He rambles and sats things that just make you cringe. I don't know, maybe someday we can get a good speaker in tgw White House, but it won't be this election.

BPPLEE said:

It’s amazing the hoops you’re jumping through to make her incompetence someone else’s lack of comprehension. Some of her “word salads” are comical.

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Can you provide some examples? Because these are two I've seen floated around CF:


and those two videos do not advance your case at all. A few of the examples are needlessly wordy, but none of them were difficult to parse.

BPPLEE said:

You’re so in the tank for her that you defend her inability to communicate clearly and act as though it’s an asset.
Someone communicates like she’s trying to fill a word quota on a term paper and you call people stupid who call her out for it.
Is there an equivalent phrase for Harris supporters as MAGA extremist for Trump? Because that’s what we’re seeing.

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I'm not in the tank for her at all. I don't find her particularly engaging as a candidate; I'm skeptical of her executive/administrative skills; I've seen little of note from her tenure as VP; and I'm not convinced she can win. My vote for her is still a vote for !Trump and !Republicans.

What I am "in the tank for" is people approaching these issues as reasonable, intelligent adults, disregarding simple-minded propaganda from whatever direction it may come. If somebody can watch either of those two videos I posted and come away with the idea that she's speaking gobbledygook, then that person has either poor English skills, is highly susceptible to propaganda, or both.

BPPLEE said:

It’s amazing the hoops you’re jumping through to make her incompetence someone else’s lack of comprehension. Some of her “word salads” are comical.
You’re so in the tank for her that you defend her inability to communicate clearly and act as though it’s an asset.
Someone communicates like she’s trying to fill a word quota on a term paper and you call people stupid who call her out for it.
Is there an equivalent phrase for Harris supporters as MAGA extremist for Trump? Because that’s what we’re seeing.

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The thing is if she were such an amazing candidate she would have gotten more than 0 candidates and wouldn't have needed the political powers to overthrow Biden and give them to her. People are getting behind her now because there isn't anyone else. But I don't think she's going to get an impassioned electorate. Once again it will depend on turnout and independents.

iluvatar5150 said:

If somebody can watch either of those two videos I posted and come away with the idea that she's speaking gobbledygook, then that person has either poor English skills, is highly susceptible to propaganda, or both.

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Or just so partisan that they have seized on this opportunity to denigrate her!

There is really nothing difficult about her speeches. she does use complex sentence structure, use long sentences. but they are perfectly comprehensible to any reasonably articulate 12 year old.

iluvatar5150 said:

Can you provide some examples? Because these are two I've seen floated around CF:

Year in review: Vice President Kamala Harris’ biggest word salads of 2022 | Fox News Video

Harris occasionally stumbled over words, talked in circles during key events throughout the year.

www.foxnews.com

and those two videos do not advance your case at all. A few of the examples are needlessly wordy, but none of them were difficult to parse.



I'm not in the tank for her at all. I don't find her particularly engaging as a candidate; I'm skeptical of her executive/administrative skills; I've seen little of note from her tenure as VP; and I'm not convinced she can win. My vote for her is still a vote for !Trump and !Republicans.

What I am "in the tank for" is people approaching these issues as reasonable, intelligent adults, disregarding simple-minded propaganda from whatever direction it may come. If somebody can watch either of those two videos I posted and come away with the idea that she's speaking gobbledygook, then that person has either poor English skills, is highly susceptible to propaganda, or both.

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The Fox News clip I agree was not that bad, the other one I can’t see how you can’t see it. The poor English skills are not on my part. What’s missing is the one on “the passage of time “ That’s my favorite.

Whyayeman said:

Or just so partisan that they have seized on this opportunity to denigrate her!

There is really nothing difficult about her speeches. she does use complex sentence structure, use long sentences. but they are perfectly comprehensible to any reasonably articulate 12 year old.

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They are empty. Many words to say very little. It reminds me of someone trying to fill a word quota on a term paper.

BPPLEE said:

It’s amazing the hoops you’re jumping through to make her incompetence someone else’s lack of comprehension. Some of her “word salads” are comical.
You’re so in the tank for her that you defend her inability to communicate clearly and act as though it’s an asset.
Someone communicates like she’s trying to fill a word quota on a term paper and you call people stupid who call her out for it.
Is there an equivalent phrase for Harris supporters as MAGA extremist for Trump? Because that’s what we’re seeing.

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Is word salad a definite deal breaker in a candidate for you?

Whyayeman said:

Or just so partisan that they have seized on this opportunity to denigrate her!

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I lumped that under "susceptibility to propaganda."

FWIW, I'd apply the same descriptor to folks on the left who think Trump was a complete failure at business. (He's not a savant like some on the right like to think, but he's obviously got a knack for some things)

BPPLEE said:

The Fox News clip I agree was not that bad, the other one I can’t see how you can’t see it. The poor English skills are not on my part. What’s missing is the one on “the passage of time “ That’s my favorite.

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The Fox one was worse. The youtube one was just her talking about not being burdened by the past, and how much she likes Venn diagrams. I think the Venn diagram comments are sort of cringey, but none of that was difficult to understand.