Eight views on the RAPTURE and the Tribulation:

Jamdoc said:

I don't know why I bother considering you don't understand what a Lunar eclipse looks like
but the celestial signs of the 6th seal are the same as given in Matthew 24:29-31

but because you've literally never seen a lunar eclipse and think that when a lunar eclipse happens the moon is black, you don't think it's the same signs as Jesus gives.
They are the signs given that happen immediately after the tribulation of those days.

Not to mention you also confuse tribulation and wrath as being the same thing as well.

They're not.
the wrath of God is God's vengeance FOR tribulation.
the 5th seal martyrs ask for it, God delivers it beginning at the 6th seal.

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Your refusal, or inability to consider other options for the Lord to use on His Day of wrath, is your fault. The knowledge of Coronal Mass Ejections, is well documented and we are warned of the high probability of a strike from a big CME, would have severe consequences. As Prophesied.

You are wrong if you think tribulation is just our everyday temptations and failings. The Sixth Seal, the 7Trumpets and 7 Bowls, are all Gods wrath, culminating in the destruction of the armies at Armageddon.

This debate has been going for years. There are things to keep in mind-

1. The Tribulation doesn’t start right after the Rapture. If it is pre-trib, it could still be a month or a week or even a year until the Tribulation starts. Even if it was mid trib or even post trib, the Tribulation still starts when the Antichrist makes peace with Israel, according to Daniel 9.

2. The Antichrist will rise to power. Some people speculate who is the Antichrist. While there had been world leaders that have certainly been used by Satan, I do think he always had someone prepared for that time.

3. Jesus Himself has said that no one knows the day or the hour. People sure like to speculate when the world is going to end (even some Bible teachers had tried to do it). But no one knows, except God.

As for how the end will occur, we will find out when it happens.

keras said:

Your refusal, or inability to consider other options for the Lord to use on His Day of wrath, is your fault. The knowledge of Coronal Mass Ejections, is well documented and we are warned of the high probability of a strike from a big CME, would have severe consequences. As Prophesied.

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The moon becoming as blood is not a bright red glow
it's a dark red shadow.

Seriously
just look up what lunar eclipses look like. That's why Day of the Lord is either the Moon being darkened, or the Moon being as blood interchangeably, because that's what it is, a darkened red shadowy moon.

Joel 2 literally uses both in the same passage.

10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:

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31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.

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Literally interchangeably.

keras said:

You are wrong if you think tribulation is just our everyday temptations and failings. The Sixth Seal, the 7Trumpets and 7 Bowls, are all Gods wrath, culminating in the destruction of the armies at Armageddon.

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That's not what I said tribulation is

The great tribulation is the war made by Antichrist... on the saints.
In Revelation 6 and 7 it's referring to the 5th seal, the 6th seal having the signs that come immediately after it.

In Revelation 12 and 13 it's the Dragon and his agents the beast and false prophet, that make war on the saints. That is great tribulation. It is extreme religious persecution, think the Holocaust but amplified and world wide.

Great Tribulation is NOT the wrath of God.
Every time Jesus mentions Tribulation it is referring to religious persecution. Every single time. It's never referring to acts of God or natural disasters or supernatural disasters.

jasmine_childoftheking said:

As for how the end will occur, we will find out when it happens.

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All that information is there in plain sight; all the Prophesies and Revelation gives us the correct sequence.
To say we must wait to find out Gods plans, simply means you haven't read you Bible. Amos 3:7

Jamdoc said:

The moon becoming as blood is not a bright red glow
it's a dark red shadow.

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Isaiah 30:26 says the moon will shine as brightly as the sun.
This can happen 2 ways: the reflection of the initial flash of a massive CME, or by when the ejected mass of superheated Hydrogen strikes the moon and causes a thermoluminescent reaction with the metallic oxides of the lunar dust.

Jamdoc said:

The great tribulation is the war made by Antichrist... on the saints.

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The Great Tribulation is generally used to describe the effects of the 7 Trumpets and the 7 Bowls during the final 3 1/2 years of this age.
It is God's wrath on all who take the mark of the beast. Revelation 8 to 9 and Revelation 16:1-17

The Anti-Christ beast will persecute Christians, as Rev 12:17 says, They will be the ones who violated the Covenant; Daniel 11:32
Those faithful Christians who trusted the Lord for their protection, will be kept safe in a distant location. rev 12:14

Is it possible for you to even consider these Biblical truths?

keras said:

All that information is there in plain sight; all the Prophesies and Revelation gives us the correct sequence.
To say we must wait to find out Gods plans, simply means you haven't read you Bible. Amos 3:7

Isaiah 30:26 says the moon will shine as brightly as the sun.
This can happen 2 ways: the reflection of the initial flash of a massive CME, or by when the ejected mass of superheated Hydrogen strikes the moon and causes a thermoluminescent reaction with the metallic oxides of the lunar dust.

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Yeah that's not referring to the Day of the Lord not the same event, might mean the 4th bowl, but it's certainly not the 6th seal. That's a blood moon, a dark red shadow.
Remember, the sign for the Day of the Lord mentions either the Moon being darkened or becoming like blood interchangeably as in the same passage about the same event. Blood is a dark red color, not a glowing bright red.

keras said:

The Great Tribulation is generally used to describe the effects of the 7 Trumpets and the 7 Bowls during the final 3 1/2 years of this age.
It is God's wrath on all who take the mark of the beast. Revelation 8 to 9 and Revelation 16:1-17

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By people who make a mistake in how they define tribulation maybe. They think tribulation means "anything bad that happens" but Jesus meant it specifically as Tribulation "then they shall deliver you up to tribulation and kill you" as Matthew 24:9 says. Jesus isn't saying that God will deliver them up to His wrath and kill them. He's talking about people doing that, persecution.

keras said:

The Anti-Christ beast will persecute Christians, as Rev 12:17 says, They will be the ones who violated the Covenant; Daniel 11:32
Those faithful Christians who trusted the Lord for their protection, will be kept safe in a distant location. rev 12:14

Is it possible for you to even consider these Biblical truths?

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No it's not possible for me to concoct a Mythology the way you do with the CME that neither makes sense in physics or the bible, and then interpret the bible through the lens of it.

Jamdoc said:

Remember, the sign for the Day of the Lord mentions either the Moon being darkened or becoming like blood interchangeably as in the same passage about the same event. Blood is a dark red color, not a glowing bright red.

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I do not 'remember' this, as it is obvious error.
The great and terrible Day of the Lords vengeance and wrath is not and cannot be the same day as the glorious Return.
The moon will shine bright red on the day of wrath and will be darkened at Jesus' Return. Your conflation of these two events, is a wrong belief.

Jamdoc said:

No it's not possible for me to concoct a Mythology the way you do with the CME that neither makes sense in physics or the bible,

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Of course for anyone who has wrong beliefs, understanding is hidden from you. Isaiah 29:9-12
But if you bothered to actually find out what Coronal explosions can do, the actual physics proves the probably of a big CME, which will literally fulfil all the Prophesies about that Day.

keras said:

I do not 'remember' this, as it is obvious error.
The great and terrible Day of the Lords vengeance and wrath is not and cannot be the same day as the glorious Return.
The moon will shine bright red on the day of wrath and will be darkened at Jesus' Return. Your conflation of these two events, is a wrong belief.

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The whole point of the Day of the Lord is the glorious return, that's why Jesus used the sign of His coming as the signs used for the Day of the Lord in the Old Testament.
When Jesus used those signs and said the coming of the Son of Man would be that, the disciples minds instantly clicked to all the passages in the Tanakh who had those signs, Isaiah, Amos, Joel, etc.

Jesus comes down in wrath..

Jude 1

14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

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That's the point of the Day of the Lord. He comes down to judge the ungodly.
The trumpets and bowls are those judgements.

keras said:

Of course for anyone who has wrong beliefs, understanding is hidden from you. Isaiah 29:9-12
But if you bothered to actually find out what Coronal explosions can do, the actual physics proves the probably of a big CME, which will literally fulfil all the Prophesies about that Day.

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No, the physics doesn't work out.
a fireball doesn't travel 93 million miles across a near vaccuum and engulf the world on fire.
CME's travel as charged particles that interact with the magnetosphere of the Earth, which can cause disruptions in communications and electronic equipment, and those can start spot fires perhaps in more primitive wiring in the 19th century.

But it's not an Earth Engulfing Fireball.
it loses too much energy to do that. Heat energy radiates out from hot place to cold place and attempts to reach equilibrium with its surroundings

Celebration of the Lamb's marriage? ONLY AFTER THE JUDGMENT OF BABYLON​

According to the GOD's Word, what needs to happen first? Exactly what is written in Revelation 18: 1 to 5, i.e. the Judgment of the Great harlot.

AlwaysInquisitive said:

Eight views on the RAPTURE and the Tribulation:

1. Pre-tribulation view
The rapture occurs before the 7 year tribulation period begins.

2. Partial-tribulation view
Not all believers will be raptured, only those who have some degree of spiritual attainment. Unworthy Christians will be left behind during the tribulation.

3. Mid-tribulation view
The rapture occurs at the midpoint of the 7 year tribulation period.

4. Post-tribulation view
The rapture occurs at the end of the 7 year tribulation period.

5. Amillennial view
Amillennialists hold very different views. Most believe there is no Rapture.
They negate the supernatural aspects of the book of Revelation because they see most of it as allegorical teaching.

6. Indignant-tribber view
These people think that debating eschatology is always wrong and divisive.
They wag their fingers at the rest of us. “Shame, shame, shame!”

7. Independent thinkers
Disagree with all the viewpoints listed above. They only, interpret the scriptures correctly. Could they really be the smartest people on the planet?

8. Undecided
These people come to forums like this hoping to gain insight and understanding.

So many flavours, so much confusion, so here is my suggestion:
For transparency we could declare our bias within our “signatures”.
(“Staunch Pre-Trib, Dispensationalist”, “Proudly Independent”, etc.)

This would make it so much easier to identify friends/foes and expedite the formation of “tag teams” (similar to pro-wrestling).

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I've studied every aspect of the subject matter (for over 4 decades now) and have only 2 main takeaways, which I might think most of us could semi agree with:

First and primary is this: The Destruction of the devil and his messengers. Can I hear an AMEN?!

Secondly, the main party: The Revealing of Christ in us. Presumably this will precursor the former. Again, something to HOPE for. Amen?!

See how easy Revelation is?

Now, as to some guy being the antiChrist and all the blood and guts and destruction crowd, I would suggest turning your sights to the enemies we can not see and direct these things to those parties. Can you guess WHO they are???

This isn't rocket science, but plain, as DAY, written for all to see.

Yet we still have people buying into the dime store novel theories of this guy or that guy being the antiChrist and being beheaded and yada yada yada. Guess what? It is not going to happen that way. We ourselves will be beheaded in a form, after a fashion when the tempter is removed from our own heads. Get it?

Now, start off this wonderful journey of discovery in REVELATION by reading Rev. 5 and you'll see it opens with GREAT GLORY. The Greatest Glory ever seen. Yet never seen by most. Even though it's right here to see.

God is a winner. Trust Him. He's worth every bit of trust you can muster in that little dark heart:

11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;


12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.


13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.


14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.

The last point of agreement for all of us should be a common one: GOD WINS

Who would have it any other way? IF Perfection can make Perfect from all of this, A Worthy God indeed.

keras said:

The shocking proliferation of different beliefs, can only be because the Lord wants it to be that way.

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Brilliant deduction.

fwiw I've studied eschatology for over 4 decades, and I remain partly cloudy on a lot of it. And this after looking under every stone possible

The whole "this guy or that guy is or will be the antiChrist" stories I totally reject for several sound scriptural reasons. But people fall into these various setups in the scriptures, of which there are many. They simply got hooked by the Word and got stuck.

One of my favorites is all the claimants that believe God is not the author of confusion. YET God confused the language of the people at the tower of Babel. And they will camp on one and deny the other when the fact is both positions can very well be fully true, simultaneously.

Believe it or not God can love and hate and the same time and both positions serve Him, as all things do

IF God didn't want all these various confusions and delusions, they wouldn't exist

And we can even read where God gives/chooses our delusions:

Isaiah 66:4
I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

The Bible really should have a big red warning label on it

BelieveItOarKnot said:

The Bible really should have a big red warning label on it

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Yes, but just for those who have chosen to believe false theories.

Isaiah 42:9 The earlier prophecies have come to pass, now I declare new things:

Isaiah 42:10-12 Sing a new song to the Lord, sing His praises throughout the world, you that sail the seas and you that inhabit the coasts and islands. Let the wilderness settlements rejoice in Kedar and Sela.

Isaiah 42:13-15 Long have I restrained Myself and kept silence, but now I cry out like a woman in labour. Now I shall lay waste to the hills and dry up the watercourses. The Lord will go forth as a warrior, He will raise the battle cry and triumph over His enemies.

Isaiah 42:16-24 You that are deaf, hear now, look you blind and see! Who is as blind as the one who has My trust, so deaf as the servant of the Lord? You have seen much but perceived little, your ears are open, but you hear nothing. I shall lead the blind along paths they do not know, making smooth the way, but those who trust in idols will be turned back in shame. It pleased the Lord to further His justice, to make His Law great. Yet, here is a people taken as spoil and plundered, all hidden away with no hope of rescue. Who will pay heed to this? Who was it that handed Israel over? Who gave up Israel for spoil? It was the Lord, against whom they sinned for they refused obedience to His Laws.

Isaiah 42 :25 So, onto Jacob He poured His wrath. The flames of God’s wrath burned him, yet still they did not take it to heart.

Isaiah 43:1-2 But now, Jacob, this is the word of the Lord, of Him who created you: When you pass through waters, I will be with you. When you walk through fire, you will not be scorched.

Isaiah 43:3-4 I am the Holy One of Israel, your Deliverer. Because I love you, I will give other peoples as ransom for your life.

Isaiah 43:5-7 Have no fear, for I am with you. I shall bring your descendants from the East and West. From the North and South and the ends of the earth, everyone who bears My name, all who I have made for My glory.

Isaiah 43:8 Lead out those who are blind – a people who have eyes, but cannot see, who have ears, but cannot hear.

Isaiah 43:9 The nations are gathered. Which of them foretold former things? Or can interpret this for us? Let them prove their case, so we can see if it is true.

Isaiah 43:10-13 You are My witnesses, says the Lord. You are My servants, chosen by Me, so that you may understand that I am God alone. I am the Lord and I alone am your Deliverer. What I do, no one can undo. Reference: Revised English Bible, some verses abridged



42:10-12 All those who love the Lord, throughout the world – get ready to praise Him for their deliverance.

42:13-15 The Lord has restrained Himself, but soon He will act in the world. Psalms 50:1-6

42:16-17 His People, righteous Christians, the Israelites of God, will be led into the Promised Land. Anyone who revolts and rebels cannot enter. Ezekiel 20:37-38

42:18-20 & 43:8 The Lord’s servants are unable to understand prophecy or foresee His plans for them. Jeremiah 4:22, Jeremiah 6:10 That is how God wants it.

42:22-25 His people, the faithful Christians, are scattered among the nations by the Lord, as punishment for the sins of their spiritual forefathers 2 Kings 23:27, Galatians 3:26-29

43:1-7 But now, when the Lord sends His vengeance and fiery wrath, the Lord will protect His faithful people. . All will be gathered into the Promised Land. Zechariah 10:8-10, Isaiah 35:1-10, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Romans 9:24-26

43:9-13 The other nations are ignorant of the Lord’s plans. The faithful Christians are His witnesses and servants chosen by Him, so they will know God and spread the Gospel of the soon to come, Kingdom of Jesus. Isaiah 66:19, 1 Peter 2:9-10

keras said:

Yes, but just for those who have chosen to believe false theories.

Isaiah 42:9 The earlier prophecies have come to pass, now I declare new things:

Isaiah 42:10-12 Sing a new song to the Lord, sing His praises throughout the world, you that sail the seas and you that inhabit the coasts and islands. Let the wilderness settlements rejoice in Kedar and Sela.

Isaiah 42:13-15 Long have I restrained Myself and kept silence, but now I cry out like a woman in labour. Now I shall lay waste to the hills and dry up the watercourses. The Lord will go forth as a warrior, He will raise the battle cry and triumph over His enemies.

Isaiah 42:16-24 You that are deaf, hear now, look you blind and see! Who is as blind as the one who has My trust, so deaf as the servant of the Lord? You have seen much but perceived little, your ears are open, but you hear nothing. I shall lead the blind along paths they do not know, making smooth the way, but those who trust in idols will be turned back in shame. It pleased the Lord to further His justice, to make His Law great. Yet, here is a people taken as spoil and plundered, all hidden away with no hope of rescue. Who will pay heed to this? Who was it that handed Israel over? Who gave up Israel for spoil? It was the Lord, against whom they sinned for they refused obedience to His Laws.

Isaiah 42 :25 So, onto Jacob He poured His wrath. The flames of God’s wrath burned him, yet still they did not take it to heart.

Isaiah 43:1-2 But now, Jacob, this is the word of the Lord, of Him who created you: When you pass through waters, I will be with you. When you walk through fire, you will not be scorched.

Isaiah 43:3-4 I am the Holy One of Israel, your Deliverer. Because I love you, I will give other peoples as ransom for your life.

Isaiah 43:5-7 Have no fear, for I am with you. I shall bring your descendants from the East and West. From the North and South and the ends of the earth, everyone who bears My name, all who I have made for My glory.

Isaiah 43:8 Lead out those who are blind – a people who have eyes, but cannot see, who have ears, but cannot hear.

Isaiah 43:9 The nations are gathered. Which of them foretold former things? Or can interpret this for us? Let them prove their case, so we can see if it is true.

Isaiah 43:10-13 You are My witnesses, says the Lord. You are My servants, chosen by Me, so that you may understand that I am God alone. I am the Lord and I alone am your Deliverer. What I do, no one can undo. Reference: Revised English Bible, some verses abridged



42:10-12 All those who love the Lord, throughout the world – get ready to praise Him for their deliverance.

42:13-15 The Lord has restrained Himself, but soon He will act in the world. Psalms 50:1-6

42:16-17 His People, righteous Christians, the Israelites of God, will be led into the Promised Land. Anyone who revolts and rebels cannot enter. Ezekiel 20:37-38

42:18-20 & 43:8 The Lord’s servants are unable to understand prophecy or foresee His plans for them. Jeremiah 4:22, Jeremiah 6:10 That is how God wants it.

42:22-25 His people, the faithful Christians, are scattered among the nations by the Lord, as punishment for the sins of their spiritual forefathers 2 Kings 23:27, Galatians 3:26-29

43:1-7 But now, when the Lord sends His vengeance and fiery wrath, the Lord will protect His faithful people. . All will be gathered into the Promised Land. Zechariah 10:8-10, Isaiah 35:1-10, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Romans 9:24-26

43:9-13 The other nations are ignorant of the Lord’s plans. The faithful Christians are His witnesses and servants chosen by Him, so they will know God and spread the Gospel of the soon to come, Kingdom of Jesus. Isaiah 66:19, 1 Peter 2:9-10

Bruce McKerras January 2011​

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I have a fairly simple question for you. Do you think we, as believers, live by every word of God? Citing Matt 4:4, Luke 4:4, and Deut 8:3

And IF yes, THEN do the scriptural words above apply to us?

I might isolate a more precise example here:

Isaiah 13:9
Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

It's always interesting to me to see believers methods to wiggle out of such statements, personally applied

BelieveItOarKnot said:

I have a fairly simple question for you. Do you think we, as believers, live by every word of God? Citing Matt 4:4, Luke 4:4, and Deut 8:3

And IF yes, THEN do the scriptural words above apply to us?

I might isolate a more precise example here:

Isaiah 13:9
Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

It's always interesting to me to see believers methods to wiggle out of such statements, personally applied

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I am not quite sure of what you are getting at, Do you think I am advocating that we Christians won't experience the Lord wrath?
We will be here and what is coming will be our great test of faith. 1 Peter4:12

keras said:

I am not quite sure of what you are getting at, Do you think I am advocating that we Christians won't experience the Lord wrath?
We will be here and what is coming will be our great test of faith. 1 Peter4:12

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Unlikely.

In the Grande Finale, aka the great tribulation, these are various accounts of the tables turning on the devil and his messengers. These bad actors have had various forms of dominion within mankind since our beginning

BUT, at the end, it will be the other way around

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Unlikely.

In the Grande Finale, aka the great tribulation, these are various accounts of the tables turning on the devil and his messengers. These bad actors have had various forms of dominion within mankind since our beginning

BUT, at the end, it will be the other way around

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So your desire is to be one of the people referred to in Hebrews 12:5-8?

keras said:

So your desire is to be one of the people referred to in Hebrews 12:5-8?

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The reach for manifestation is legit, and for the specific intents to bring retribution to our mutual enemies, the devil and his messengers

AlwaysInquisitive said:

Eight views on the RAPTURE and the Tribulation:

1. Pre-tribulation view
The rapture occurs before the 7 year tribulation period begins.

2. Partial-tribulation view
Not all believers will be raptured, only those who have some degree of spiritual attainment. Unworthy Christians will be left behind during the tribulation.

3. Mid-tribulation view
The rapture occurs at the midpoint of the 7 year tribulation period.

4. Post-tribulation view
The rapture occurs at the end of the 7 year tribulation period.

5. Amillennial view
Amillennialists hold very different views. Most believe there is no Rapture.
They negate the supernatural aspects of the book of Revelation because they see most of it as allegorical teaching.

6. Indignant-tribber view
These people think that debating eschatology is always wrong and divisive.
They wag their fingers at the rest of us. “Shame, shame, shame!”

7. Independent thinkers
Disagree with all the viewpoints listed above. They only, interpret the scriptures correctly. Could they really be the smartest people on the planet?

8. Undecided
These people come to forums like this hoping to gain insight and understanding.

So many flavours, so much confusion, so here is my suggestion:
For transparency we could declare our bias within our “signatures”.
(“Staunch Pre-Trib, Dispensationalist”, “Proudly Independent”, etc.)

This would make it so much easier to identify friends/foes and expedite the formation of “tag teams” (similar to pro-wrestling).

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One more view: during-great-tribulalation rapture.

Jesus said there will be great tribulation and those days will be cut short for the elects sake. The last trumpet sounds, the saints are gathered, the dead saints are raised incorruptible, the living saints put off the corruptible flesh and are changed in a moment to incorruptible. As Jesus is descending with His heavenly hosts in fiery clouds and thunder, all that are His (Jews and Gentiles) are caught up to Him, then we accompany Him to earth to set up His kingdom here on earth. Praise the Lord.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

The reach for manifestation is legit, and for the specific intents to bring retribution to our mutual enemies, the devil and his messengers

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The great and terrible Day of the Lords fiery wrath, will be experienced by everyone the whole world over. Luke 21:35
We are told to: Call upon his Name and we will be saved. NOT by removal, but by protection. as many scriptures say. Isaiah 43:2. Psalms 91, +

OnePlanPeopleDestiny said:

One more view: during-great-tribulalation rapture.

Jesus said there will be great tribulation and those days will be cut short for the elects sake. The last trumpet sounds, the saints are gathered, the dead saints are raised incorruptible, the living saints put off the corruptible flesh and are changed in a moment to incorruptible. As Jesus is descending with His heavenly hosts in fiery clouds and thunder, all that are His (Jews and Gentiles) are caught up to Him, then we accompany Him to earth to set up His kingdom here on earth. Praise the Lord.

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The raising of all the rest of the dead, will not happen until the thousand years is over. Revelation 20:5
People becoming immortal is impossible before the Book of Life is opened, at the Great White Throne Judgment. Revelation 20:11-15

keras said:

The great and terrible Day of the Lords fiery wrath, will be experienced by everyone the whole world over. Luke 21:35
We are told to: Call upon his Name and we will be saved. NOT by removal, but by protection. as many scriptures say. Isaiah 43:2. Psalms 91, +

The raising of all the rest of the dead, will not happen until the thousand years is over. Revelation 20:5
People becoming immortal is impossible before the Book of Life is opened, at the Great White Throne Judgment. Revelation 29:11-15

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I did come away from Rev with one very important conclusion. I'd think any long term student would agree, and it is this:

It WILL be 100% about the end of the devil and his messengers.

People are not God's enemies

I consider anyone who thinks they need to save themselves from God is ill advised

BelieveItOarKnot said:

I did come away from Rev with one very important conclusion. I'd think any long term student would agree, and it is this:

It WILL be 100% about the end of the devil and his messengers.

People are not God's enemies

I consider anyone who thinks they need to save themselves from God is ill advised

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Brother, the Bible disagrees.

First, no one can save themselves. We must be born again, which a work solely by the power of God.

Secondly, God's enemies are people who idolize the thing in the world over God who gave them life: "know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God." James 4:4.

Jesus called Pharisees the children of Satan. John the Baptist called them vipers. The Bible repeated tells us that there will be eternal punishment for those that reject God. Only the repentant faithful will be saved.

Be blessed in the mighty holy holy holy and precious name of Jesus Christ. Amen amen.