Black Lives Matter calls for public participation in the Democratic nomination process

probinson · Jul 25, 2024

A2SG said:
The GOP seemed quite happy to inaugurate a president who had never even run for office back in 1974. At least Harris has the chance to run for office, and let the voters decide whether or not she becomes President. Voters never got the chance to choose Gerald Ford, not even as a running mate.

This is amusing to me. You're keep referencing something that happened in 1974.

Protip: I wasn't even alive in 1974 to complain about that. I'll bet this forum wasn't here either so we could argue endlessly about it. So, I'm not sure what your point is.

probinson · Jul 25, 2024

A2SG said:
Nope, the 25th Amendment wasn't invoked. He came out himself and said he was stepping down. Maybe he was encouraged to, who can say...but he wasn't forced.

You're playing a silly game of semantics. Anyone that listened to Biden in the 3 weeks following his disastrous debate performance is quite aware the he was made to drop out of the race against his will. You can say he wasn't "forced", but you're only fooling yourself.

probinson · Jul 25, 2024

Bradskii said:
Sometimes it's personally very hard to do the right thing. It's to his credit that he did it. You may not like his politics, but he's an honourable man who put his country first.

This is absolutely untrue. If Biden wanted to be remembered as an honorable man who put his country first by dropping out of the race because he was unfit for a second term, he would have dropped out of his own volition in January so that there would have been a fair and honest Democratic primary. But he did not. He clung to his title and the delusion that he could run again until he was forcibly coerced to step down against his own will all but assuring there would be no real contender.

You're trying to re-write history in real-time.

probinson · Jul 25, 2024

SimplyMe said:
It would help if people were more knowledgeable about the way elections work in this country. The fact is, the nominees by the parties for President have not been democratic, in the history of the country -- it is really only in the last few decades that it started. Instead, the party "elite" would gather at the convention and decide who the next President would be, nothing really democratic about it.

This is a strange argument. Even it had only been in the last year, the point is you don't change the rules in the middle of the game. And by your admission, this has been how we choose candidates for "the last few decades".

There was a primary this year. It was tossed in the trash.

SimplyMe said:
The fact remains, the power of who is nominated to various elective offices is left to the parties. While the normal rules are now that the person must be democratically "elected" to become the nominee, the issue is that the normal rules no longer apply -- you are back to the rules that basically allow the party to do what they feel is best and most expedient.

I'd prefer the Democrats open it up and at least let the delegates -- democratically chosen by voters in their state to represent them at the convention -- choose the Presidential nominee. At the same time, I understand how Democrats feel Biden leaving the election so late requires them to quickly coalesce around a candidate and Harris was democratically elected to be Vice President (as well as all the other benefits). The fact remains BLM is free to be unhappy about it but I don't see this "controversy" affecting votes in November (it will be long forgotten then).

So, oligarchs for the win!

I do agree with you that Americans have a short memory, so it will be interesting to see how or if this anomaly affects votes. There are still over 100 days left, which is a lifetime in an election cycle, so I'm sure something else will come along to upend the news cycle shortly. Squirrel!

Tropical Wilds · Jul 25, 2024

probinson said:
You have an awfully high opinion of your meme. You must be so proud of it!

6 out of 10. Not my worst. Not my best.

probinson said:
No, I know a troll when I see one, and that, my friend, was a troll.

At least own it.

If I was, I would.

probinson · Jul 25, 2024

Tropical Wilds said:
6 out of 10. Not my worst. Not my best.

If I was, I would.

Troll on!

Meanwhile, I think it's interesting that few people seem to care about the valid points raised by BLM regarding oligarchs appointing Harris with no public input. In the same way some are accusing me of only listening when it's convenient, that's exactly what's happening now.

Tropical Wilds · Jul 25, 2024

probinson said:
Troll on!

Meanwhile, I think it's interesting that few people seem to care about the valid points raised by BLM regarding oligarchs appointing Harris with no public input. In the same way some are accusing me of only listening when it's convenient, that's exactly what's happening now.

Organizations have incorrect ideas of how the democratic process works. News at 11.

I find people who declare organizations to be the embodiment of everything that’s wrong with society, but then add “except for when I like what they’re saying” much more interesting.

probinson · Jul 25, 2024

Tropical Wilds said:
Organizations have incorrect ideas of how the democratic process works. News at 11.

Oh yes. The democratic process works totally like this:

Hold primary elections with the pretense that your vote matters.
Candidate overwhelmingly secures majority of votes in said primary elections.
Candidate debates other party's candidate.
Candidate falls flat on face.
Candidate insists that he had a cold and it was just a "bad night".
Candidate goes on a media blitz tour ensuring voters that he won't step down unless God tells him to.
Political party realizes said candidate cannot win.
Political party panics.
Political party threatens candidate to step down the easy way or "the hard way".
Candidate suddenly has an epiphany. Drops out. Via a tweet.
Political party declares candidate a "hero" for (FINALLY!) succumbing to their demands.
Political party coalesces around a new candidate that NO ONE voted for within 24 hours.
Oligarchs rejoice that they were never "bound" to vote for Biden and the rules permit them to disregard the will of the primary voters whenever they choose.
DEMOCRACY IS SAVED!!!

ViaCrucis · Jul 25, 2024

probinson said:
Sounds like not everyone is happy with the way things are progressing.

Liberal, progressive, and leftist voters tend to be pretty critical of the Democratic Party. We tend to vote Democrat because in a functionally two-party system, people tend to vote not for who they want, but vote against who they want the least.

I've never participated in a presidential election voting for who I'd actually want as president. For a couple of the election cycles I chose to not vote at all.

-CryptoLutheran

Tropical Wilds · Jul 25, 2024

probinson said:
Oh yes. The democratic process works totally like this:

Hold primary elections with the pretense that your vote matters.

Candidate overwhelmingly secures majority of votes in said primary elections.

Candidate debates other party's candidate.

Candidate falls flat on face.

Candidate insists that he had a cold and it was just a "bad night".

Candidate goes on a media blitz tour ensuring voters that he won't step down unless God tells him to.

Political party realizes said candidate cannot win.

Political party panics.

Political party threatens candidate to step down the easy way or "the hard way".

Candidate suddenly has an epiphany. Drops out. Via a tweet.

Political party declares candidate a "hero" for (FINALLY!) succumbing to their demands.

Political party coalesces around a new candidate that NO ONE voted for within 24 hours.

Oligarchs rejoice that they were never "bound" to vote for Biden and the rules permit them to disregard the will of the primary voters whenever they choose.

DEMOCRACY IS SAVED!!!

I didn’t read all that because the glance I saw showed it was hyperbole and hysteria based from a similar lack of knowledge of the democratic process and what happened, flavored with a lot of bias and fist shaking about nonsense.

Bradskii · Jul 25, 2024

probinson said:
This is absolutely untrue. If Biden wanted to be remembered as an honorable man who put his country first by dropping out of the race because he was unfit for a second term, he would have dropped out of his own volition in January so that there would have been a fair and honest Democratic primary. But he did not. He clung to his title and the delusion that he could run again until he was forcibly coerced to step down against his own will all but assuring there would be no real contender.

You're trying to re-write history in real-time.

Could he have dropped out earlier? I guess so. But the Dems wanted someone who could beat Trump. He was the guy at that time. Was that the wisest decision? With 20 20 hindsight, probably not. But a shortened campaign is probably a benefit for Harris.

But there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Biden always was, and is, doing what he thinks is best for the country. It's truly laughable for anyone to suggest the same about Trump.

probinson · Jul 25, 2024

Tropical Wilds said:
I didn’t read all that because the glance I saw showed it was hyperbole and hysteria based from a similar lack of knowledge of the democratic process and what happened, flavored with a lot of bias and fist shaking about nonsense.

Do you make it a habit to comment on things you don't even bother to read?

probinson · Jul 25, 2024

Bradskii said:
Could he have dropped out earlier? I guess so. But the Dems wanted someone who could beat Trump. He was the guy at that time. Was that the wisest decision? With 20 20 hindsight, probably not.

Biden's decline was evident long before the June 27 debate. It was hidden, downplayed and willfully ignored by people who absolutely knew better. No hindsight required.

Bradskii said:
But a shortened campaign is probably a benefit for Harris.

Only time will tell.

Bradskii said:
But there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Biden always was, and is, doing what he thinks is best for the country.

I don't believe that for a second. Biden had an overly inflated opinion of himself. He was doing what he thought was in his best political interest when he decided to run for a second term despite telling everyone back in 2020 he would only run for one term.

Bradskii said:
It's truly laughable for anyone to suggest the same about Trump.

Trump certainly only cares about Trump.

Bradskii · Jul 25, 2024

probinson said:
I don't believe that for a second. Biden had an overly inflated opinion of himself. He was doing what he thought was in his best political interest when he decided to run for a second term despite telling everyone back in 2020 he would only run for one term.

He'll have his detractors. I'm not one of them. I see an honourable man in Biden. It's a characteristic that's thin on the ground these days.

probinson said:
Trump certainly only cares about Trump.

I'm glad we agree. And I'm utterly perplexed that either people can't see that or even more perplexing do see the type of man he is and still want to vote for him. Truly, in the UK or Australia he'd be treated as a figure of fun.

probinson · Jul 25, 2024

Bradskii said:
He'll have his detractors. I'm not one of them. I see an honourable man in Biden. It's a characteristic that's thin on the ground these days.

So do you think he was acting in the country's best interest when he chose to run for a second term when he told people in 2020 that he only intended to run for one term? You don't think there was any selfish ambition in that desire to run for a second term?

Bradskii said:
I'm glad we agree. And I'm utterly perplexed that either people can't see that or even more perplexing do see the type of man he is and still want to vote for him.

Well, the fact that Democrats are running perhaps the most liberal, progressive candidate they could find has something to do with that. It will be interesting to see if Harris has the ability to appeal to the moderates. That's going to determine if she has a path to victory or not.

Bradskii · Jul 25, 2024

probinson said:
So do you think he was acting in the country's best interest when he chose to run for a second term when he told people in 2020 that he only intended to run for one term? You don't think there was any selfish ambition in that desire to run for a second term?

No. I think he genuinely felt that he was the best option in the circumstances. At the time I think he was probably right. In light of recent events, that has changed. Could it have changed earlier? We're back to hindsight. But Harris is most definitely, undeniably the better option now. And Biden realised that (as does Trump). If it had been Trump in that position he would have dragged everyone one down with him. But Biden had the cojones and the interest of his party and the country to step back.

probinson said:
Well, the fact that Democrats are running perhaps the most liberal, progressive candidate they could find has something to do with that. It will be interesting to see if Harris has the ability to appeal to the moderates. That's going to determine if she has a path to victory or not.

What you class as 'most liberal' is what I class as reasonably moderate. Her main policies on education, women's rights and gun control have majority backing right from the outset. The campaign is going to be based on what we've heard already. Trump wants to take the US backwards. Harris wants to move forwards. I think the country is ready for that.

Tropical Wilds · Jul 25, 2024

probinson said:
Do you make it a habit to comment on things you don't even bother to read?

I make a habit of trying to comment on things I’m tagged on.

probinson · Jul 25, 2024

Tropical Wilds said:
I make a habit of trying to comment on things I’m tagged on.

But commenting on things you've not read.... seems maybe not all that wise.

probinson · Jul 25, 2024

Bradskii said:
What you class as 'most liberal' is what I class as reasonably moderate.

Not even the media is trying to peddle that.

Lucky for her, she has plenty of allies in the media that have some advice for her.

How Kamala Harris Can Fight the ‘Too Liberal’ Label

The veep should learn from John Kerry and not put too much emphasis on her reputation as a tough prosecutor.

nymag.com

Bradskii said:
Trump wants to take the US backwards. Harris wants to move forwards. I think the country is ready for that.

I guess we'll see.

Bradskii · Jul 25, 2024

probinson said:
Not even the media is trying to peddle that.

They're not peddling my opinion? I wouldn't have they would be. Nobody has interviewed me on the US election. The point being made is that it's a relative term. Universal health care? Common sense for me (having lived in 2 countries that have it). To others? A socialist/Marxist threat to American freedom.

probinson said:
I guess we'll see.

Go back before Roe v Wade? That's done. Want to go back further? It's on the cards. Want to take the US out of the Paris Accord. He'll do it again. Want to take the US out of NATO? That's a strong possibility. Want to go back to drilling in wilderness areas? Of course. Go back to pre Second World War isolationism? Of course - he'll abandon Ukraine for a start. Shall I go on, or is that enough?

Black Lives Matter calls for public participation in the Democratic nomination process

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