I do appreciate you answering my question, thanks.
I usually find it better to understand a person I am having a discussion with, since misunderstandings, from my experience, tend to cause what is termed "talking past each other", since it appears as if the two persons are not even listening to each other.
Then one person becomes aggressive, and then it looks like some sort of argument, rather than a civil discussion.
To give an example...
If you had not given me
this information, I would assume that like most people, you understood that John 3:16 applies to everyone in the world, because everyone is a sinner subject to death, and so, as the text says, something is required on their part, in order not to perish... have faith in Jesus.
So, imagine I have that in mind, and in your mind, only "the elect" put faith in Jesus, but "non-elect" don't, when I try to point out that it is only those putting faith in Jesus that are saved, and not the unbeliever, you would be arguing against tat, even though you believe the same thing.
That's something I see happening over and over again... and yet, some don't see it.
Can I show you where you agreed?
Only if they are one of the elect Christ died for.
Jn 3:16 is exclusively about the elect, and
in Vs 36 you have the elect and the non elect, the non elect is a unbeliever under Gods wrath, and will not see life, meaning will never be saved, Christ didn't die for them, the one believing in
Jn 3:36 is just like the believing in
Jn 3:16, the elect, and they were never under Gods wrath, thats my understanding.
So, those not putting faith in Jesus, as you said, will never be saved.
Is that not in agreement?
However, I also, hear you saying something I have never heard before.
You are saying that the world is not all humanity that God loves, and there are thousands, even millions of people whom Christ did not die for... In other words, Christ's blood does not cover the sins of countless people...
I'm going to bite the bullet here, and go with that being what I understand you to be saying, since you prefer not to answer questions.
This means that countless people cannot have their sins forgiven, but I am willing to put my neck on the line that you believe all those who put faith in Jesus were predestined, and so, beforehand, they were known as elect. Thus Christ's shed blood was for them only.
While this is interesting, it tends to go contrary to scriptures such as...
2 Corinthians 5:14, 15
14 For the love of Christ compels us, having concluded this, that One has died for all, therefore all have died.
15 And He died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died for them and was raised again.
1 Timothy 2:5, 6
...and others, including those that refer to those that turn away after being bathed in Christ blood - had their sins covered.
2 Peter 2:20-22
John 3:16 does apply to the whole world of sinners, born to Adam.
However, only those putting faith in Jesus, will be saved from sin. The others will die in their sins.
If you are arguing otherwise, I won't argue with you, because I prefer to do like Paul, and reason... following Jesus' example, and asking questions.
That's what I think a discussion is.
If you prefer otherwise, then I bid you farewell.
