Trump Found Guilty on All 34 Counts In Hush-Money Trial

[BPPLEE]

Not counting Trump there have been at least 30 prosecutions of falsifying business records in the first degree have happen since 2009.

Please pay attention that is not the law I am referring to

Law Professor: The Manhattan District Attorney’s Convoluted Legal Case Against Donald Trump Gets More Convoluted

To request an interview with Professor Germain, please contact Ellen James Mbuqe, executive director of media relations, at ejmbuqe@syr.edu. By Gregory Germ ...

news.syr.edu

 

[ralliann]

Please pay attention that is not the law I am referring to

Law Professor: The Manhattan District Attorney’s Convoluted Legal Case Against Donald Trump Gets More Convoluted

To request an interview with Professor Germain, please contact Ellen James Mbuqe, executive director of media relations, at ejmbuqe@syr.edu. By Gregory Germ ...

news.syr.edu

Good article. Legal scholars have been talking about this since it began. Many said rightly, his lawyers could not even prepare a defense for that crime. Nobody knows what it is..

 

[mark46]

I am glad to know that Judge Merchan has reaffirmed his conviction on all 34 counts. The rule of law is alive and well in New York City and New York State, where the incoming president is also dealing with two huge financial judgments for business fraud and sexual assault (amounting to about $500 million, with interest accruing every day). Then of course, justice was served in the federal courts when the defrauded students of the now defunct Trump University received a $25 million judgment about 9 years ago.
When everyday citizens see the wealthy and powerful avoid accountability for their crimes and misdeeds it creates anger and mistrust of our judicial system.
We owe New York, my home state, a debt of gratitude for taking these cases seriously, undeterred by the defendant's wealth and power.

my home state also

Thank you New York!

 

[zippy2006]

And from a practical point of view, there's not much point trying to go after someone who can just fire anyone who tries to bring charges against them. In that sense his re-election made the cases "of no use any longer" but that would be true regardless of whether it was lawfare or not.

Eh, I'm not convinced. Why isn't it of use? Why wouldn't they attempt to defer the punishment until after Trump's term?

It seems to me that a presidential nominee for a major political party should have the same basic immunities the President has for the duration of their candidacy. The simple fact that the prosecution ignored the logic of that idea and launched into a case involving, at most, petty crimes, in the heart of the candidate's campaign, points to lawfare. I mean, if it is no longer of any use, we should ask what use the case was supposed to have in the first place. If it was to impartially bring a criminal to justice, then I think you attempt to defer the punishment.

 

[JSRG]

Eh, I'm not convinced. Why isn't it of use? Why wouldn't they attempt to defer the punishment until after Trump's term?

It seems to me that a presidential nominee for a major political party should have the same basic immunities the President has for the duration of their candidacy. The simple fact that the prosecution ignored the logic of that idea and launched into a case involving, at most, petty crimes, in the heart of the candidate's campaign, points to lawfare. I mean, if it is no longer of any use, we should ask what use the case was supposed to have in the first place. If it was to impartially bring a criminal to justice, then I think you attempt to defer the punishment.

I wasn't talking about the New York case (the one where Trump got found guilty) in the portion you quoted. I was talking about the federal case brought by the Department of Justice, hence my mention of Jack Smith.

 

[zippy2006]

I wasn't talking about the New York case (the one where Trump got found guilty) in the portion you quoted. I was talking about the federal case brought by the Department of Justice, hence my mention of Jack Smith.

Ah, okay. My bad.

 

[Malleeboy]

The Manhattan DA’s office has filed charges for falsification of business records 9,794 times since 2015.

Falsification for business records as a misdemeanor, but the statute of limitations had ended on them.
The election interference was investigated around Stormy Daniels payment has investigated by the Biden DoJ, but they decided there was no case.
Alvin Bragg decided to use the election interference as the crime to turn the falsification of business record into a felony. to get around limitations issue.

They then gave the jury a charge that any of three differing felonies could be the underlying felony. The jury just had to decide that he had committed a felony, but they didn't have to agree on which one. So, we don't know what felony he actually committed to turn the business records falsification into felony. (This novel, choose your own felony is almost certainly to get overturned but Merchan just wanted a conviction)

Furthermore, the business falsification was categorizing something as a business expense instead of a campaign expense. This means that Trump paid more tax to New York than he should have. Nearly all business records crimes around election interference is around finding ways to pay less tax or defraud the public, not finding ways to pay more tax.

Go ahead and keep supporting this absurd case, but more you do, the more likely is Vance win in 2028.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Go ahead and keep supporting this absurd case, but more you do, the more likely is Vance win in 2028.

Was Sen. Vance somehow involved in these crimes too?

 

[A2SG]

Falsification for business records as a misdemeanor, but the statute of limitations had ended on them.

You're referring to the wrong crime here. Trump was found guilty of violating NY law 175.10, Falsifying business records in the first degree. This is a felony. The misdemeanor is NY law 175.05, Falsifying business records in the second degree.

As to the statute of limitations, that is paused if the defendant leaves the state. Trump did that, his legal residence is in Florida. Plus which, there's the four years he resided in Washington DC.

The election interference was investigated around Stormy Daniels payment has investigated by the Biden DoJ, but they decided there was no case.
Alvin Bragg decided to use the election interference as the crime to turn the falsification of business record into a felony. to get around limitations issue.

They then gave the jury a charge that any of three differing felonies could be the underlying felony. The jury just had to decide that he had committed a felony, but they didn't have to agree on which one. So, we don't know what felony he actually committed to turn the business records falsification into felony. (This novel, choose your own felony is almost certainly to get overturned but Merchan just wanted a conviction)

Furthermore, the business falsification was categorizing something as a business expense instead of a campaign expense. This means that Trump paid more tax to New York than he should have. Nearly all business records crimes around election interference is around finding ways to pay less tax or defraud the public, not finding ways to pay more tax.

Go ahead and keep supporting this absurd case, but more you do, the more likely is Vance win in 2028.

Whether or not there are issues with this specific case is something the appeals court may or may not rule on. It would depend on if those issues resulted in procedural or legal errors that affected the outcome. I don't profess to have sufficient knowledge to know whether or not that is the case, so I won't comment on that.

However, I don't believe for one second that those issues, whatever they may be, are the reason some people voted for Donald Trump. I'm certain that most people who voted for Trump did so regardless of this case or any of the other legal cases against him. They simply did not care that Trump was guilty of 34 counts of felony fraud. Why they didn't care, I have no idea.

Look at it this way: if during the 2024 election, a third party candidate came into the race, who had been convicted of fraud 34 times (or more, as Trump does have other fraud convictions behind him), would just under half the voting public have supported that candidate? Unlikely.

So, it wasn't because of those convictions. I'd say it was despite them.

-- A2SG, though, I suppose there are some out there who might vote for a felon simply because he's a felon....who can say?

 

[Valletta]

You're referring to the wrong crime here. Trump was found guilty of violating NY law 175.10, Falsifying business records in the first degree. This is a felony. The misdemeanor is NY law 175.05, Falsifying business records in the second degree.

As to the statute of limitations, that is paused if the defendant leaves the state. Trump did that, his legal residence is in Florida. Plus which, there's the four years he resided in Washington DC.


Whether or not there are issues with this specific case is something the appeals court may or may not rule on. It would depend on if those issues resulted in procedural or legal errors that affected the outcome. I don't profess to have sufficient knowledge to know whether or not that is the case, so I won't comment on that.

However, I don't believe for one second that those issues, whatever they may be, are the reason some people voted for Donald Trump. I'm certain that most people who voted for Trump did so regardless of this case or any of the other legal cases against him. They simply did not care that Trump was guilty of 34 counts of felony fraud. Why they didn't care, I have no idea.

Look at it this way: if during the 2024 election, a third party candidate came into the race, who had been convicted of fraud 34 times (or more, as Trump does have other fraud convictions behind him), would just under half the voting public have supported that candidate? Unlikely.

So, it wasn't because of those convictions. I'd say it was despite them.

-- A2SG, though, I suppose there are some out there who might vote for a felon simply because he's a felon....who can say?

A lot of Americans have a good sense of fairness and don't like people being railroaded.

 

[Valletta]

Was Sen. Vance somehow involved in these crimes too?

Democrats may very well have added Vance to the charges had they known he would be the VP pick.

 

[A2SG]

A lot of Americans have a good sense of fairness and don't like people being railroaded.

And, apparently, there are some who don't actually need pesky things like evidence or proof to believe actual railroading happened.

Let me ask you something....if a random person came up to you, not Trump but someone else, who said he was just convicted of 34 counts of fraud, and had other fraud convictions in his history, would you believe he'd been railroaded just because he said so?

Hmmm....

-- A2SG, yup, the person to believe without question is definitely someone who has been convicted of fraud several times over.....

 

[Valletta]

And, apparently, there are some who don't actually need pesky things like evidence or proof to believe actual railroading happened.

I have not encountered any but given the size of the population there are bound to be a few. In any case, I believe the time between the sentencing and the case being tossed will be short.

 

[A2SG]

I have not encountered any but given the size of the population there are bound to be a few. In any case, I believe the time between the sentencing and the case being tossed will be short.

Kind of too late to toss the case, it's already been decided. The sentencing is tomorrow.

Trump will be inaugurated as the first president in US history to be a convicted felon.

Congratulations.

-- A2SG, you should be so very proud.....

 

[Valletta]

Kind of too late to toss the case, it's already been decided. The sentencing is tomorrow.

Trump will be inaugurated as the first president in US history to be a convicted felon.

Congratulations.

-- A2SG, you should be so very proud.....

Actually no, the case gets tossed on appeal. But yes, Trump will be inaugurated because the voters of this country, knowing Trump was convicted on not just one but 32 felonies, with Democrats outnumbering Republicans and outspending Trump by a margin greater than two to one, elected Trump in a fair election. It is not a matter of pride, it is a matter of justice.

 

[Postvieww]

I commend Bragg and Letitia James, armed with only a staff of underpaid DAs, for having the courage, integrity and perseverance to take up the highest paid lawyers in the country.

This assessment has no foundation in fact. Both were George Soros hacks, This whole get Trump movement was a politically based witch hunt.

 

[Postvieww]

If any of the jurors being selected felt that way, why did Trump's lawyers select them, or not raise an objection for cause?

Trump's legal team did help select the jury, after all.

-- A2SG, and we're back to the "jury was in on it" conspiracy theory....

The jury was manipulated by the judge. This case will absolutely be overturned on appeal. The judge , the DA and any thinking honest legal minds all know it . The case is full appealable miss steps by the court. Most honest DA’s would never even have brought this case. This was just another get Trump by hook or crook liberal fiasco.

 

[Postvieww]

It's unlikely when you take into consideration that Trump's high end lawyers chose them (in conjunction with the prosecuting team).


Have you read the transcript or the evidence presented?

He didn't say that at all as appeals are not based on the evidence already presented or not presented, but only on whether proper procedure was followed. If proper procedure was followed, then the defendant is deemed to have gotten a fair trial.

The actual evidence very much attested to the guilt of the defendant. Cohen fronted the money to pay off Stormy Daniels just after the Grab 'Em By The [Private Parts] tape came out in order to squash the story. This was not part of lawyer duties. The refund as listed as "legal expenses" which was false. The jury convicted him. Read the testimony, read the indictment, read the transcripts with the appendices.

The Florida documents case was even more slam dunk, but judicial misconduct and general ineptitude got in the way.

And here we are with Tump going back to the White House. If many die hard liberals can’t figure out why they lost they will have a hard time pulling off the gaslighting strategy again. Even some liberals have figured it out but are ignored by the hard left wing of the party.

 

[NxNW]

This assessment has no foundation in fact. Both were George Soros hacks, This whole get Trump movement was a politically based witch hunt.

He was found guilty by an impartial jury of his peers, approved by Trump's attorneys. No claims of jury tampering have been made.

 

[NxNW]

The jury was manipulated by the judge.

Link?