Eschatology: The "Left Behind" narrative is unbiblical

[All Becomes New]

Return, for rapture purposes, does not mean to Earth. Read 1Th 4:16. Jesus "descends." Read 1 Th 4:17. He never descends to Earth. We go to Him. Please go by what those verses say. The next return of Jesus is not to Earth. Acts 1:11 only requires that He descends into the view of believers, only. He will do that in, in Heaven.

All the references I could find for the word ἀπάντησις (NT and LXX): meet:

1 Samuel 4:1
"And the word of Samuel came to all Israel. Now Israel went out to battle against the Philistines. They encamped at Ebenezer, and the Philistines encamped at Aphek."

They go out to fight the Philistines, but then return back home

1 Samuel 13:10
"As soon as he had finished offering the burnt offering, behold, Samuel came. And Saul went out to meet him and greet him."

Saul went out to meet Samuel but then returned back to where they were.

1 Samuel 13:15
"And Samuel arose and went up from Gilgal. The rest of the people went up after Saul to meet the army; they went up from Gilgal to Gibeah of Benjamin. And Saul numbered the people who were present with him, about six hundred men."

Saul went out to meet with the army and then they went somewhere else.

1 Chronicles 14:8
"When the Philistines heard that David had been anointed king over all Israel, all the Philistines went up to search for David. But David heard of it and went out against them."

Two parties go out to meet each other, but they go back to their camp afterwords.

Matthew 25:6
"But at midnight there was a cry, ‘Here is the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.’"

The virgins go out to meet the groom and then return.

John 12:13
"So they took branches of palm trees and went out to meet him, crying out, “Hosanna! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord, even the King of Israel!”"

The people go out to meet Christ but afterward go back to celebrate the festival.

Acts 28:15-16
"And the brothers there, when they heard about us, came as far as the Forum of Appius and Three Taverns to meet us. On seeing them, Paul thanked God and took courage. And when we came into Rome, Paul was allowed to stay by himself, with the soldier who guarded him."

The brothers go out to meet Paul and then return to Rome.

1 Thessalonians 4:17
"Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord."

Are you seeing a pattern?

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

You said he "returns." That was your word, not mine.

For the record, Jesus went to Heaven after His resurrection, after his short talk with Mary Magdolene. John 20:17 (NIV): Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”

Jesus returned to Earth for his 40 days on Earth, after His resurrection. It is not in the Bible that Jesus returns only twice. The 2A is to prove He is the Lord of lords and the King of kings. He will kill His enemies in Armageddon. He will hold the judgment of the sheep and goats (Matt 25:31-46 --- these judgments are believed to be the Israelites gathered in Matt 24:30 (sheep), and the unbelievers who survived the Trib (goats) Then, the MK. A thousand years later, the GWTJ. Then, the NHNE. Praise the Lord!

The key difference between the rapture and the NHNE is, in 1 Th 4:17, we are taken to Heaven. In Rev 21:2, the NHNE comes down from Heaven to us. Therefore, 1 Th 4:16-17 provably have nothing to do with the NHNE. Acts 1:11 also proves that 1 Th 4:16-17 have nothing to do with the 2A.

 

[All Becomes New]

provably

proves

I should not have to tell you that this is arrogant.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

All the references I could find for the word ἀπάντησις (NT and LXX): meet:

1 Samuel 4:1
"And the word of Samuel came to all Israel. Now Israel went out to battle against the Philistines. They encamped at Ebenezer, and the Philistines encamped at Aphek."

They go out to fight the Philistines, but then return back home

1 Samuel 13:10
"As soon as he had finished offering the burnt offering, behold, Samuel came. And Saul went out to meet him and greet him."

Saul went out to meet Samuel but then returned back to where they were.

1 Samuel 13:15
"And Samuel arose and went up from Gilgal. The rest of the people went up after Saul to meet the army; they went up from Gilgal to Gibeah of Benjamin. And Saul numbered the people who were present with him, about six hundred men."

Saul went out to meet with the army and then they went somewhere else.

1 Chronicles 14:8
"When the Philistines heard that David had been anointed king over all Israel, all the Philistines went up to search for David. But David heard of it and went out against them."

Two parties go out to meet each other, but they go back to their camp afterwords.

Matthew 25:6
"But at midnight there was a cry, ‘Here is the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.’"

The virgins go out to meet the groom and then return.

John 12:13
"So they took branches of palm trees and went out to meet him, crying out, “Hosanna! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord, even the King of Israel!”"

The people go out to meet Christ but afterward go back to celebrate the festival.

Acts 28:15-16
"And the brothers there, when they heard about us, came as far as the Forum of Appius and Three Taverns to meet us. On seeing them, Paul thanked God and took courage. And when we came into Rome, Paul was allowed to stay by himself, with the soldier who guarded him."

The brothers go out to meet Paul and then return to Rome.

1 Thessalonians 4:17
"Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord."

Are you seeing a pattern?

Let's examine closely 1 Th 4:17. We are raptured to Heaven (by reason of having our eternal bodies from 1 Cor 15:52). We then MEET Jesus in the air (please see 1 Th 4:17).

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

I should not have to tell you that this is arrogant.

I should not have to tell you that this is arrogant.

Am I arrogant for accurately quoting facts from Scripture? If you want proof, examine the purpose of the trumpet in 1 Th 4:16. Then, please examine the purpose of the trumpet in Matt 24:31. Those trumpets are not related to the same event. That is a fact from Scripture. Therefore, it is a fact that Acts 1:11 has nothing to do with the 2A.

 

[All Becomes New]

Let's examine closely 1 Th 4:17. We are raptured to Heaven (by reason of having our eternal bodies from 1 Cor 15:52). When then MEET Jesus in the air (please see 1 Th 4:17).

I agree. And then we escort Christ back to earth.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

I agree. And then we escort Christ back to earth.

Please specify the verse you are basing that on. If you mean anything about us escorting Jesus back in the 2A, that is not true. We follow Jesus back to Earth in the 2A. We will be found in Rev 19:14.

 

[The Old Maid]

Ah yes, the Acts 1:11 debate of my Youth of Being Taken by Grown-Ups to Many, Many Churches.

Church 1: "The verse plainly means that since His feet were on the ground, His return will be all the way down to feet on the ground. Which of course can only happen on Last Judgment Day."

Church 2: "No, the verse plainly means that since He left that day by passing through clouds, He cannot possibly return at night or on a clear day."

Tiny TOM: "What about THE LAST BATTLE, when nobody knew the day and most Narnians who ever existed has to be ready already because they all died before Aslan ever got there?"

At least two different grown-up men: "Or in your case, struck by lightning."

(P.S. this is a true story. Never asked why anyone wanted Tiny TOM to read C.S. Lewis if they didn't like him.)

 

[All Becomes New]

Please specify the verse you are basing that on. If you mean anything about us escorting Jesus back in the 2A, that is not true. We follow Jesus back to Earth in the 2A. We will be found in Rev 19:14.

That is the meaning of the word "meet" from 1 Thessalonians 4:17. I already established that.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Ah yes, the Acts 1:11 debate of my Youth of Being Taken by Grown-Ups to Many, Many Churches.

Church 1: "The verse plainly means that since His feet were on the ground, His return will be all the way down to feet on the ground. Which of course can only happen on Last Judgment Day."

Church 2: "No, the verse plainly means that since He left that day by passing through clouds, He cannot possibly return at night or on a clear day."

Tiny TOM: "What about THE LAST BATTLE, when nobody knew the day and most Narnians who ever existed has to be ready already because they all died before Aslan ever got there?"

At least two different grown-up men: "Or in your case, struck by lightning."

(P.S. this is a true story. Never asked why anyone wanted Tiny TOM to read C.S. Lewis if they didn't like him.)

You’re changing Acts 1:9-11. Verse 11 has nothing to do with any aspect of location, as in “feet on the ground.”

Verse 11 is about “the same way.” The same way is only about the circumstances of His ascension. Jesus ascended in the view of believers only, which were His disciples.

Only 1 Th 4:16-17 align with Acts 1:11. In verse 16, Jesus descends. This is a minimal descent because we are raptured to Heaven. We are gathered and we will be overjoyed!

There will be 2-3 billion believers assembled. After we are settled down, Jesus will descend into the view of believers only, fulfilling Acts 1:11.

 

[The Old Maid]

I'm not changing anything. Merely relating one of the six versions of The Future I was told. In that case, that if His feet never left the ground, then He didn't leave. If His feet didn't touch the ground, then He didn't come back the same way He left.

I won't say I envied anyone who grew up with one version and who hold fast unto this day. I also won't say that Tiny TOM welcomed thermonuclear annihilation. (Very big, back in the day.) Just saying that the Olivet Discourse implies that a lot of people are going to be surprised.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

I'm not changing anything. Merely relating one of the six versions of The Future I was told. In that case, that if His feet never left the ground, then He didn't leave. If His feet didn't touch the ground, then He didn't come back the same way He left.

I won't say I envied anyone who grew up with one version and who hold fast unto this day. I also won't say that Tiny TOM welcomed thermonuclear annihilation. (Very big, back in the day.) Just saying that the Olivet Discourse implies that a lot of people are going to be surprised.

Again, "the same way" in Acts 1:11 has NOTHING to do with location. You are commenting on the location of Jesus' feet. That won't work. The way in which Jesus ascended was in the view of believers, only. There are only two verses that relate to Acts 1:11 and they are 1 Th 4:16-17. What Jesus did in Acts 1:9-10 is, He ascended. We therefore need the opposite upon His return. That would be 1 Th 4:16 wherein Jesus descends. In Acts 1:9-10, Jesus ascended in the view of believers only. In 1 Th 4:17, He will descend in the view of believers only. There are no other verses that will match the requirements of Acts 1:11.

 

[NeoWatchman]

This post disproves a pre-Trib rapture. It goes verse by verse, in detail, and shows how all the verses used are taken out of context:

Why Do Pastors Keep Taking THESE Verses Out Of Context?!

Hebrews 5:12-13 (Majority Text/Byzantine Text Version)12 For indeed, although you ought to be teachers by this time, again you have need [for someone] to teach you what are the elements of the begi…

nowistheend.wordpress.com

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

This post disproves a pre-Trib rapture. It goes verse by verse, in detail, and shows how all the verses used are taken out of context:

Why Do Pastors Keep Taking THESE Verses Out Of Context?!

Hebrews 5:12-13 (Majority Text/Byzantine Text Version)12 For indeed, although you ought to be teachers by this time, again you have need [for someone] to teach you what are the elements of the begi…

nowistheend.wordpress.com

Thank you. That article has significant errors. But, that's for later.

Let's look at 1 Th 1:10 (ESV): and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

The earliest of God's wrath in the Trib is in the 2nd seal, in the specific form of wars. These are wars that will be on a never-before-seen scale. Wars will break out all over the world simultaneously. Here's the 2nd seal: Rev 6:4 (NLT): Then another horse appeared, a red one. Its rider was given a mighty sword and the authority to take peace from the earth. And there was war and slaughter everywhere.

Wars in the 2nd seal are a certified form of God's wrath. How do we know that's God's wrath? God's wrath is defined in Ezekiel 14:21 (NLT): “Now this is what the Sovereign Lord says: How terrible it will be when all four of these dreadful punishments fall upon Jerusalem—war, famine, wild animals, and disease—destroying all her people and animals.

So, there you have four certified forms of God's wrath: war, famine, wild animals (to kill humans and livestock), and disease. Wars are the centerpiece of the 2nd seal. That is the certified form of God's "wrath to come" in 1 Th 1:10. That verse says Jesus delivers us from the wrath to come.

What does that usage of "delivers us" mean in 1 Th 1:10? Let's consult Baker's Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology. "The second usage of deliverance refers to the Acts of God whereby he rescues his people from danger. The key words nasal [l;v"n] ("draw out, snatched away")."

Therefore, in the context of 1 Th 1:10, "delivers us" means we are "snatched away." In John 14:3 (ESV), that's equivalent to "will take you to myself." It’s an instant removal from Earth. All raptures go directly to Heaven: 2 Kings 2:11, Rev 11:12. Rev 4:1 is provably a future event. Here's why: Apostle John never left the island of Patmos during the entire time he received his vision of Revelation. The proof is in John's own words where he confirms that everything he heard and saw was shown to him by one angel. Rev 22:8 (ESV): I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed them to me,

Therefore, Rev 4:1 is certified as a future event, the pre-Trib rapture of the Church. The pre-Trib timing of the rapture is proven by an understanding of 1 Th 1:10 and that God's wrath in the Trib starts in the 2nd seal. Jesus "delivers us," meaning we are snatched away. We are raptured straight to Heaven in Rev 4:1.

One final note: All four of the certified forms of God’s wrath in Ezekiel 14:21 occur in the 4th seal. Therefore, the early seals are chock-full of certified forms of God’s wrath. Here's the 4th seal, Rev 6:7-8 (ESV): When he opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, “Come!” 8 And I looked, and behold, a pale horse! And its rider's name was Death, and Hades followed him. And they were given authority over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by wild beasts of the earth.

 

[The Old Maid]

I'm so sorry, I'm pressed for time today. So please forgive me if this question already has been answered.

So ... we all agree that the dead will be raised and then we who are living ( 1 Thess. 4:16-17 ).

And we agree that the dead will be raised and then living at "the last trumpet" ( 1 Corinthians 15:52 ).

At which point, Rapture teachings declare that those in Heaven will watch the rest of the book of Revelation unfold. That book includes the blowing of seven trumpets to indicate seven Trumpet Judgments (Revelation 8:1 through 9:21).

How many trumpets are there after the Last Trumpet?

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

I'm so sorry, I'm pressed for time today. So please forgive me if this question already has been answered.

So ... we all agree that the dead will be raised and then we who are living ( 1 Thess. 4:16-17 ).

And we agree that the dead will be raised and then living at "the last trumpet" ( 1 Corinthians 15:52 ).

At which point, Rapture teachings declare that those in Heaven will watch the rest of the book of Revelation unfold. That book includes the blowing of seven trumpets to indicate seven Trumpet Judgments (Revelation 8:1 through 9:21).

How many trumpets are there after the Last Trumpet?

Thank you for your reply. The article below (1.5 pages long) will shed light on "the last trump" (1 Cor 15:52 KJV). It will prove that "the last trump" has no relation to the seven trumpet judgments. The "last trump" is the trumpet sound in 1 Th 4:16.

The Last Trump | Learn The Bible | LearnTheBible.org

Is the trumpet of 1 Corinthians 15:52 the same as the trumpet of Revelation 11:15? If so, doesn't this mean that the church will not be raptured out until the end of the tribulation?

www.learnthebible.org

 

[Always in His Presence]

Has anyone ever stated that this fictional series of books was meant to be anything greater than fiction?

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Has anyone ever stated that this fictional series of books was meant to be anything greater than fiction?

What exactly is fictional?

 

[The Old Maid]

Has anyone ever stated that this fictional series of books was meant to be anything greater than fiction?

Yes, more or less. The authors Tim LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins includes this postscript in Volume 16, the last book in the series.

(from the Left Behind books Top Ten list ... it's also in the #16 spoilers post fyi).

Honorable Mention I: “By now there should be no question, but for the record let me say that yes, we believe that what we have portrayed here will happen someday. Our deepest prayer is that this sixteen-book story has drawn you closer to God and caused you to either receive Him as your Savior or more deeply commit yourself to Him if you were already a believer. Thousands of readers have told us that they became believers through reading these books, which makes everything else associated with them—media coverage, controversy, best-seller lists—pale in comparison. There’s nothing any novelist enjoys more than to hear that his work has changed a reader’s life. Well, when readers tell us that, they mean it literally.” (—Volume 16, pages 355-356)

 

[Always in His Presence]

What exactly is fictional?

All of it - Left Behind is a multimedia franchise of apocalyptic fiction written by Tim LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins, released by Tyndale House Publishers from 1995 to 2007.