On the sinfulness of the LGBT path.

[RestoreTheJoy]

Because it's true.

Orientation is independent of action. if this were not the case any and all virgins would not be hetero or homo or bi or anything at all. And since orientation involves emotional, romantic and/or sexual attractions i don't see how anyone would be interested in marriage or loosing their virginity or anything else.

Yes there is a ton of evidence that one's orientation is inborn. Stomping your feet and making emphatic assertions that there isn't is just being dishonest. We've been down this road and historically you categorically reject any evidence that doesn't fit your personal views.


What situation?

orientation is independent of activity.

gays and lesbians have hidden who they are by getting married. they didn't change who they are they were still gay, just not happy.

Many Lesbians conceive children by as one lesbian i know said: 'lay there and try to think about something else while the doner does his thing'. Do you think that for the couple minutes that lesbians was laying there thinking about England that they were briefly and magically transformed into heterosexuals?

emphatic assertions do not constitute evidence

Exactly. Vehemently reasserting your position when there is ZERO evidence whatsoever this is inborn is dishonest. It will never be proven because it is not true.

There have been a few studies that found changes in the brains of gay men, but could not attribute causation, and were careful not to dishonestly do so. Perhaps their activities caused the brain changes, as is true for all of us in other areas of health.

Even the Bible tells us we have what we SAY and what we fervently believe and have faith in, to a large extent. So sure, any woman who could say she "thinks about England while the sperm donor does his thing" has predetermined long ago her position. She has what she says and fervently believes. Mark 11:23

 

[SilverBear]

Who knows if there even is a reason. It would seem to be one of natures aberrations, like being born with too many toes, or any number of congenital defects.

Being minority is not a defect or a sign of disease.

Secondly, when it comes to homosexuality, you'd have a difficult (if not impossible) time proving it does no harm. How do we measure it? There are clear instances where it does, for example STDs are more easily transmitted through anal sex than vaginal.

The burden would be on those saying it is harmful and you would have an impossible time proving that.
STDs are not intrinsic to either gays or straights and recall that lesbians have the lowest std transmission rate.
there are many anti-gay groups that tout STD's as a justification for hate and discrimination. For the most part they use misleading statistics or misrepresent information to support their claim. I remember during the ugly fight or proposition 5 in California several groups touted the "epidemic" of syphilis among homosexuals in California. They were eager to point out that the number of syphilis cases among gay men in the state had risen over 200% from the previous year obviously showing how dirty and disgusting gays are. What they didn't say was that the 200% increase amounted to an total increase of 11 cases of syphilis in gay men from one year to the next. They also didn't say that in that same year the number of syphilis cases among heterosexuals had increased over 800%.

I'm using Natural Law in the Catholic sense, which isn't really as simple as it's in nature therefore it's ok.

no one is saying this.

what is being said is that it is impossible to call homosexuality unnatural, or against natural law when it occurs naturally and occurs in nature.

 

[SilverBear]

Exactly. Vehemently reasserting your position when there is ZERO evidence whatsoever this is inborn is dishonest. It will never be proven because it is not true.

There have been a few studies that found changes in the brains of gay men, but could not attribute causation, and were careful not to dishonestly do so. Perhaps their activities caused the brain changes, as is true for all of us in other areas of health.

there are thousands of studies showing orientation is inborn. When presented with any you dismiss them out of hand so yes there is evidence even if you wish to pretend otherwise.

Even the Bible tells us we have what we SAY and what we fervently believe and have faith in, to a large extent. So sure, any woman who could say she "thinks about England while the sperm donor does his thing" has predetermined long ago her position. She has what she says and fervently believes. Mark 11:23

not what was asked.

 

[Phil 1:21]

Except having blue eyes or being left handed are not abominations to God.

neither is being gay.

Engaging in homosexual intercourse is.

which is not being gay

The title of this thread is "On the sinfulness of the LGBT path." Unless your contention is that the "LGBT path" is that of celibacy, your rebuttal is moot.

 

[SilverBear]

The title of this thread is "On the sinfulness of the LGBT path." Unless your contention is that the "LGBT path" is that of celibacy, your rebuttal is moot.

facts are never moot

 

[Phil 1:21]

facts are never moot

If they're irrelevant to the topic, then yes, they are.

 

[SilverBear]

If they're irrelevant to the topic, then yes, they are.

since you introduced the topic of abominations you must think it is relevant

 

[Phil 1:21]

since you introduced the topic of abominations you must think it is relevant

The topic of sin was introduced in the OP.

 

[SilverBear]

The topic of sin was introduced in the OP.

and you brought up abominations

 

[Phil 1:21]

and you brought up abominations

Abominations are sin.

So back to the OP...do you agree with scripture that homosexual intercourse is sinful?

 

[JohnC2]

There are many Christians who see the LGBT lifestyle as a natural aspect of life, and many who see it as a sin. Do you view it as sinful? Are there any reasons outside of the bible why you would view it as inherently a bad or good (or neutral) thing? Thanks!

It’s not that so many Christians see it as perfectly OK and fun...: What we see is a judgement declared by God upon our land. Refer to Romans 1 - who brings the downfall upon the place? God is the one who decrees it.... Is it then OK to declare ourselves more righteous than they are?

Do we shake our fist at God? Do we try to close our eyes and deny God has spoken against our place? Do we blame “Them” for not managing to uphold a moral and ethical standard that we can’t uphold without God’s hedge of protection on our own lives....

Do we deny that the people who God has allowed this to come upon need mercy and grace just like the rest of us - or is alcoholism, child abuse, violence against innocents, greed, failure to honor contracts, and backbiting somehow a lesser sin than homosexuality?

Do we blow the trumpet for how righteous and perfect we are and how bad they are? This denies that ALL the good things in our lives have been given by God and that we don’t merit it.... And that denies we benefit from tremendous unmerited privilege simply because God has granted it...

No - we bow before his will.... We accept his punishment on our land and we beg for his mercy. We show love, compassion, and mercy even to the ones who have fallen into sin because we receive this same mercy, compassion, and love from God through Jesus Blood even while we fail to meet His holy standard....

 

[SilverBear]

Abominations are sin.

So back to the OP...do you agree with scripture that homosexual intercourse is sinful?

but being gay isn't

 

[SilverBear]

It’s not that so many Christians see it as perfectly OK and fun...: What we see is a judgement declared by God upon our land. Refer to Romans 1 - who brings the downfall upon the place? God is the one who decrees it.... Is it then OK to declare ourselves more righteous than they are?

Do we shake our fist at God? Do we try to close our eyes and deny God has spoken against our place? Do we blame “Them” for not managing to uphold a moral and ethical standard that we can’t uphold without God’s hedge of protection on our own lives....

Do we deny that the people who God has allowed this to come upon need mercy and grace just like the rest of us - or is alcoholism, child abuse, violence against innocents, greed, failure to honor contracts, and backbiting somehow a lesser sin than homosexuality?

Do we blow the trumpet for how righteous and perfect we are and how bad they are?

when you lump a minority in with people who abuse children you are blowing that trumpet.

 

[Archer_on_Fire]

There is no LGBT path because it isn't a choice. Sexuality is not a choice.

 

[Phil 1:21]

Abominations are sin.

So back to the OP...do you agree with scripture that homosexual intercourse is sinful?

but being gay isn't

Interresting that you won’t answer the question.

 

[Archer_on_Fire]

when you lump a minority in with people who abuse children you are blowing that trumpet.

And shows ignorance.

 

[SilverBear]

Interresting that you won’t answer the question.

you trying another misdirection is neither interesting or surprising.

 

[Phil 1:21]

you trying another misdirection is neither interesting or surprising.

The sinfulness of homosexual behavior is the topic of the thread. Is there some particular problem with agreeing with the word of God?

 

[fat wee robin]

ade

There is no LGBT path because it isn't a choice. Sexuality is not a choice.

There is no LGBT path because it isn't a choice. Sexuality is not a choice.

So you are saying at the 'beginning ' , God made homosexuals ,because that is the logic of what you are saying ?

 

[fat wee robin]

nouvreeginning

Sorry for the late reply. Lots of stuff going on for me lately!

Hmmm... Personally, I would say fascism and Marxism are quite different as far as humanism is concerned. Nazi Germany was two thirds protestant, and one thirds catholic. As for Marxism and humanism, it's true that most communist countries have been oppressive against religious people. I don't think humanism has much to do with communism, however, as Marxist ideology has more of an anti-theistic approach. Humanism in itself is independent of that system. For example, Norway and Iceland are democratic socialist countries that operate using humanistic ideals while the majority is still christian (by two thirds).

As for my posts being cutting, that was not my intention. I felt I was being disrespected, and rather than getting upset and arguing, I wanted to stop that direction of the conversation and refocus back onto the topic at hand. Like I said before, I'm here for discussion. I'm not interested in being right - only in seeing other people's perspectives. =)

By the way, what do you mean about putting the individual good above the collective, and why is it perverted?

Difficult for Americans ,but humanity is intrinsically interdependant ,and the idea that we have at all times to right to do as we please is not only wrong but in the end will back fire one everyone .Since someone who is only concerned with their own feelings ,their own life lacks the light of the Spirit ,they cannot see the conséquences of their own actions .They are dependant on the heterosexual for their survival and the more enlightened ones realise that, and do not mock so much ,while the the activists who hate God wish like Lucifer to make creation in their own image .That ,after all is what he was thrown out of Heaven for .

All of Creation is interactive and our actions affect the health of all ,directly or indirectly .The room for manouver is in fact quite small ,and applies strictly to our private life .The problem here is the recognition of the promotion of a lifestyle, which includes making babies ,and imitating marriage .WE can never
accede to this ,as it is the ultimate Lie ,and those who are pushing it, know that , but not all people are fooled .

"We can fool all of the people some of the time ,we can fool some of the people all of the time , but we cannot fool All of the people ,all of the time ".

I suggest you look up the source of this quote , but for the moment I will be travelling and not available .