Could Vienna’s approach to affordable housing work in California?

AlexB23 · Apr 30, 2024

Wow, $600/mo for a two bedroom apartment in a city where one does not need to own a car? The downside, you have to speak German, which has harsher phonetics compared to English. After the article summary, there is this cool 9 minute video that explains why German sounds so harsh. Here is the article: Could Vienna’s approach to affordable housing work in California?

Short summary of the open-access article by The Guardian (<20% in length, for fair usage reasons):

Whelp, looks like the AI run on my laptop is actin' up. You will have to read the article yourself. I will have to troubleshoot this.

Why German language sounds aggressive (9 minutes, ages 15 and up, due to stereotypes about Germany)

AlexB23 · Apr 30, 2024

Alright, got the article summarized:

A delegation of housing experts and politicians from California have visited Vienna, Austria to learn about its successful housing policies. Vienna's housing policy ensures that all people, regardless of income level, have access to affordable and quality housing. Sixty percent of people in Vienna live in subsidized housing, compared to just five percent in California. The city builds approximately 6,000-7,000 new units of subsidized housing each year to keep up with demand.

Visitors from California expressed shock at the lack of homelessness and the abundance of affordable housing in Vienna. Nimbyism (Not In My Backyard), or residents blocking new developments, is less of an issue in Vienna due to its top-down approach to addressing the issue. Vienna's affordable housing system is funded by a 1% tax on all salaries and government loans. Inspired by Vienna's model, Los Angeles has implemented a similar land bank and mansion tax to fund affordable housing. The focus in Vienna is on supplying affordable housing, rather than directly subsidizing residents through vouchers as is done in the United States. (Kirsty Lang, The Guardian, April 30, 2024)

FireDragon76 · May 1, 2024

Vienna has alot of walking and cycling, maybe that has something to do with it. Most of California (and the US), has mandatory parking ordinances in cities and urban areas, which uses up alot of land that could otherwise go towards housing.

trophy33 · May 1, 2024

If somebody is thinking about moving to Austria:

The problem with Austria is that you must use (the Austrian - different in different parts of Austria) German to even find the apartment. Most people do not speak English or do not want to speak English, there. You will need to register utilities, internet, phone or your residence in German, basically. Not to say taxes, dentists, doctors.

Even ordering basic food is a problem, no main grocery eshops have an English version:

Alfies - Volles Supermarktsortiment in 60 Minuten geliefert

Alfies bringt´s. Tausende Artikel online & super easy bestellen. 6 Tage die Woche in 60 Minuten geliefert.

www.alfies.at

Aktuelle Angebote - Hausfreund Einkaufs-Zustellservice Wien und NÖ

Lebensmittelzustellung: DER HAUSFREUND BRINGT'S. Nach Hause und ins Büro. Wir sind ein Zustelldienst und liefern Ihre Bestellung direkt in Ihr Büro oder nach Hause. Lebensmittel, Getränke, frisches Obst, Haushalts- und Bürobedarf. Das Ausliefergebiet: Wien u. Wien-Umgebung Unsere Zustellzeiten

www.hausfreund.at

Bauernladen Helene - regionale & saisonale Lebensmittel

Seit 2009 finden Sie uns im 5. Wiener Gemeindebezirk. Auch im 17. Bezirk bieten wir ein regionales & saisonales Sortiment an frischen Lebensmitteln an.

bauernladenhelene.at

https://www.spar.at/online-shops

https://shop.billa.at/

And of course, couriers will not call you in English, so you will need to at least understand what they say in German.

BTW, deposit on an apartment is unusually high, mostly 3 months, but frequently also 6 months payment. Also, prepare for high taxes.

For an expat, its more easier in Netherlands, for example.

Maria Billingsley · May 1, 2024

AlexB23 said:
Wow, $600/mo for a two bedroom apartment in a city where one does not need to own a car? The downside, you have to speak German, which has harsher phonetics compared to English. After the article summary, there is this cool 9 minute video that explains why German sounds so harsh. Here is the article: Could Vienna’s approach to affordable housing work in California?

Short summary of the open-access article by The Guardian (<20% in length, for fair usage reasons):

Whelp, looks like the AI run on my laptop is actin' up. You will have to read the article yourself. I will have to troubleshoot this.
View attachment 346905

Why German language sounds aggressive (9 minutes, ages 15 and up, due to stereotypes about Germany)

California has Section 8 housing which is flawed. HUD subsidizes rents for low income individuals, not homeless zero income. Additionally, there is a long waiting list, landlords are not willing to rent to low income individuals, low income designated housing is only by lottery and the approval process is a nightmare. That being said, Austria has a universal healthcare system so those who are unhoused due to mental illness or chemical dependency are treated. On the bright side, we just approved a mental care and substance abuse program headed by Gavin Newsome. Hope to see more of these people who are in dire need off the streets!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/03/21/california-prop-1-homeless-mental-health-addiction/

AlexB23 · May 1, 2024

trophy33 said:
If somebody is thinking about moving to Austria:

The problem with Austria is that you must use (the Austrian - different in different parts of Austria) German to even find the apartment. Most people do not speak English or do not want to speak English, there. You will need to register utilities, internet, phone or your residence in German, basically. Not to say taxes, dentists, doctors.

Even ordering basic food is a problem, no main grocery eshops have an English version:

Alfies - Volles Supermarktsortiment in 60 Minuten geliefert

Alfies bringt´s. Tausende Artikel online & super easy bestellen. 6 Tage die Woche in 60 Minuten geliefert.

www.alfies.at

Aktuelle Angebote - Hausfreund Einkaufs-Zustellservice Wien und NÖ

Lebensmittelzustellung: DER HAUSFREUND BRINGT'S. Nach Hause und ins Büro. Wir sind ein Zustelldienst und liefern Ihre Bestellung direkt in Ihr Büro oder nach Hause. Lebensmittel, Getränke, frisches Obst, Haushalts- und Bürobedarf. Das Ausliefergebiet: Wien u. Wien-Umgebung Unsere Zustellzeiten

www.hausfreund.at

Bauernladen Helene - regionale & saisonale Lebensmittel

Seit 2009 finden Sie uns im 5. Wiener Gemeindebezirk. Auch im 17. Bezirk bieten wir ein regionales & saisonales Sortiment an frischen Lebensmitteln an.

bauernladenhelene.at

https://www.spar.at/online-shops

https://shop.billa.at/

And of course, couriers will not call you in English, so you will need to at least understand what they say in German.

BTW, deposit on an apartment is unusually high, mostly 3 months, but frequently also 6 months payment. Also, prepare for high taxes.

For an expat, its more easier in Netherlands, for example.

That is interesting. I thought that a lot of Europeans spoke English. But you are right about the taxes. So, even though the cost of living might be lower, taxes are higher. But, on average (even with high taxes), it is cheaper to live in Austria compared to the US.

Austria vs US: Cost of Living, Salary & Prices comparison

The average cost of living in Austria ($1743) is 28% less expensive than in the United States ($2433). Austria ranked 22nd vs 7th for the United States in the list of the most expensive countries in the world. The average after-tax salary is enough to cover living expenses for 1.6 months in...

livingcost.org

trophy33 · May 1, 2024

AlexB23 said:
That is interesting. I thought that a lot of Europeans spoke English. But you are right about the taxes. So, even though the cost of living might be lower, taxes are higher. But, on average (even with high taxes), it is cheaper to live in Austria compared to the US.

Austria vs US: Cost of Living, Salary & Prices comparison

The average cost of living in Austria ($1743) is 28% less expensive than in the United States ($2433). Austria ranked 22nd vs 7th for the United States in the list of the most expensive countries in the world. The average after-tax salary is enough to cover living expenses for 1.6 months in...

livingcost.org

I had a problem to find somebody who speaks a good English in Austria, I do not know why. Even in common tourist places like in mountains. Maybe they are just unwilling, like French are.

I do not think there is even an active website with apartments for rent in Austria, in English. Most are just automatic translations from German.

Because the USA are 50 states and large, I guess there will be many places cheaper and many places more expensive than Austria.

AlexB23 · May 1, 2024

Maria Billingsley said:
California has Section 8 housing which is flawed. HUD subsidizes rents for low income individuals, not homeless zero income. Additionally, there is a long waiting list, landlords are not willing to rent to low income individuals, low income designated housing is only by lottery and the approval process is a nightmare. That being said, Austria has a universal healthcare system so those who are unhoused due to mental illness or chemical dependency are treated. On the bright side, we just approved a mental care and substance abuse program headed by Gavin Newsome. Hope to see more of these people who are in dire need off the streets!

Yeah, California has a lot of flaws, but I will not judge the entire state. Austria has a higher quality of life, cos the taxes are used for helping people. Well hey, at least California is trying, and I pray that Mr. Newsome's mental health/substance abuse program goes well.

AlexB23 · May 1, 2024

trophy33 said:
I had a problem to find somebody who speaks a good English in Austria, I do not know why. Even in common tourist places like in mountains.

Wow, I thought EU citizens were required to take English courses.

Oh wait, this chart shows otherwise. English is optional in Austria.

trophy33 · May 1, 2024

AlexB23 said:
Wow, I thought EU citizens were required to take English courses.

Oh wait, this chart shows otherwise. English is optional in Austria.
View attachment 346925

Not sure if this is actual, for example in the Czech republic it says "optional", but its mandatory since the elementary school. I think there was an option to learn German instead of English, before, but it was like 15 years ago.

There is later a required choice for the second foreign language in high schools - most commonly German vs French, but English is always required as the first foreign language.

I think its similar also in Poland, which is also marked as "optional" on the map.

AlexB23 · May 1, 2024

trophy33 said:
Not sure if this is actual, for example in the Czech republic it says "optional", but its mandatory since the elementary school. I think there was an option to learn German instead of English, before, but it was like 15 years ago.

There is later a required choice for the second foreign language in high schools - most commonly German vs French, but English is always required as the first foreign language.

I think its similar also in Poland, which is also marked as "optional" on the map.

So, are you Polish, if I may ask?

trophy33 · May 1, 2024

AlexB23 said:
So, are you Polish, if I may ask?

Czech.

iluvatar5150 · May 1, 2024

Could Vienna's approach to affordable housing work in California?

Lots of things could work here if Americans got over some of their hangups.

AlexB23 · May 1, 2024

trophy33 said:
Czech.

That is cool. I was adopted from Bulgaria, and am in the US, though I can not speak Bulgarian.

AlexB23 · May 1, 2024

iluvatar5150 said:
Lots of things could work here if Americans got over some of their hangups.

So true my friend, so true.

trophy33 · May 1, 2024

AlexB23 said:
That is cool. I was adopted from Bulgaria, and am in the US, though I can not speak Bulgarian.

Adopted from Bulgaria to the US? How does that work?

AlexB23 · May 1, 2024

trophy33 said:
Adopted from Bulgaria to the US? How does that work?

My adoptive parents went to Bulgaria to adopt someone, as my parents could not have kids. Once a person is adopted by a US citizen, one automatically becomes a US citizen. Here is some complicated US law that explains this: U.S. Citizenship for an Adopted Child | USCIS

trophy33 · May 1, 2024

AlexB23 said:
My adoptive parents went to Bulgaria to adopt someone, as my parents could not have kids. Once a person is adopted by a US citizen, one automatically becomes a US citizen. Here is some complicated US law that explains this: U.S. Citizenship for an Adopted Child | USCIS

And it is legal from the Bulgarian point of view?

essentialsaltes · May 1, 2024

AlexB23 said:
Inspired by Vienna's model, Los Angeles has implemented a similar land bank and mansion tax to fund affordable housing. The focus in Vienna is on supplying affordable housing, rather than directly subsidizing residents through vouchers as is done in the United States. (Kirsty Lang, The Guardian, April 30, 2024)

Could it work? Probably. The problem is that we needed to start this 40 years ago. The deficit of housing in California will take a long time to address, but I welcome these and other measures to address the problem.

Laws have made it easier to construct 'granny flats' [accessory dwelling units - ADU] in your backyard, and several have already been built on my block.

With respect to the comment about parking, buildings newly constructed within some distance of the LA Metro have lessened parking requirements, allowing more space for apartments.

Whyayeman · May 1, 2024

trophy33 said:
If somebody is thinking about moving to Austria:

The problem with Austria is that you must use (the Austrian - different in different parts of Austria) German to even find the apartment. Most people do not speak English or do not want to speak English, there. You will need to register utilities, internet, phone or your residence in German, basically. Not to say taxes, dentists, doctors.

Even ordering basic food is a problem, no main grocery eshops have an English version:

Alfies - Volles Supermarktsortiment in 60 Minuten geliefert

Alfies bringt´s. Tausende Artikel online & super easy bestellen. 6 Tage die Woche in 60 Minuten geliefert.

www.alfies.at

Aktuelle Angebote - Hausfreund Einkaufs-Zustellservice Wien und NÖ

Lebensmittelzustellung: DER HAUSFREUND BRINGT'S. Nach Hause und ins Büro. Wir sind ein Zustelldienst und liefern Ihre Bestellung direkt in Ihr Büro oder nach Hause. Lebensmittel, Getränke, frisches Obst, Haushalts- und Bürobedarf. Das Ausliefergebiet: Wien u. Wien-Umgebung Unsere Zustellzeiten

www.hausfreund.at

Bauernladen Helene - regionale & saisonale Lebensmittel

Seit 2009 finden Sie uns im 5. Wiener Gemeindebezirk. Auch im 17. Bezirk bieten wir ein regionales & saisonales Sortiment an frischen Lebensmitteln an.

bauernladenhelene.at

https://www.spar.at/online-shops

https://shop.billa.at/

And of course, couriers will not call you in English, so you will need to at least understand what they say in German.

BTW, deposit on an apartment is unusually high, mostly 3 months, but frequently also 6 months payment. Also, prepare for high taxes.

For an expat, its more easier in Netherlands, for example.

Gosh, Austria must be a foreign country! Not American at all!

On my only visit to Vienna I had very little trouble with the Viennese, who seemed happy and relaxed - and spoke English as often as not. I was in the company of a fluent German speaker so it was never problem.

Americans should be wary of subsidised housing. It smacks of that dreadful socialism and who knows where that can lead? Socialised medicine, the welfare state and other abominations. The end is obvious; Satanic communists will close all the churches, abolish the police and then eat your babies and worst of all, tax those billionaires.

Could Vienna’s approach to affordable housing work in California?

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