Why Socialism?

Ken-1122 said:

I was looking at a survey that said most Millennials prefer Socialism to Capitalism. I just don’t get it. I can understand having some socialist programs in place in a Capitalist country, but the entire country to be Socialist? I’m not getting this. What it it about socialism that appeals to so many young people?

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That's the naïve person's view of utopia. Everyone goes through a phase like that at some point. But they soon come to understand that it doesn't work and give up on it. Just like everyone else. The only people that continue to push for it are those who want to be in charge of it and prey on the young to keep themselves in power.

Because:

Rising wealth inequality
Rising wage inequality
Static minimum wages
Rising cost of living
Increasing working hours
Increasing financial vulnerability
Increasing generational wealth gap
Falling social mobility
Falling employment security, particularly for the young, the elderly and minorities
Healthcare tied to employment
The soulcrushing state of the work search and hiring process
'At will' employment laws
The antagonistic attitudes of corporate managers and some political parties to unionisation, collective bargaining and industrial action
Falling standards of living
Increasing profits without commensurate wage increases
Increasing labour productivity without commensurate wage increases
Increasing perceptions of a system rigged in the favour of the wealthy
Increasing levels of corporate regulatory capture
Falling rates of market intervention by governments
Falling home ownership rates
Record high rent and rental distress
Nurses, teachers and firefighters paying higher proportional and effective tax rates than multi billionaires
The existence of offshore tax havens
The scale of tax breaks given to the largest, wealthiest and often most externally harmful corporations
The bail outs and loan forgiveness of businesses, while student loan relief gets push back from "job creators"
The Increasing militarisation of police protecting corporate interests
The Increasing alignment of pro-corporate interests and certain right political views

There's many more reasons. That's just off to top of my head

Ken-1122 said:

I was looking at a survey that said most Millennials prefer Socialism to Capitalism. I just don’t get it. I can understand having some socialist programs in place in a Capitalist country, but the entire country to be Socialist? I’m not getting this. What it it about socialism that appeals to so many young people?

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Have you got a link to the survey? I doubt very much indeed that many people want a completely socialist country. It's not either/or in any case. You can draw a line between a completely socialist system and a completely capitalist one and pick your preferred point on that line.

Ken-1122 said:

I was looking at a survey that said most Millennials prefer Socialism to Capitalism. I just don’t get it. I can understand having some socialist programs in place in a Capitalist country, but the entire country to be Socialist? I’m not getting this. What it it about socialism that appeals to so many young people?

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I can see why because Capitalism is seemingly failing the younger generation. Remember the days when going to college was affordable? Getting a decent job after graduation was a shoe in ? Buying a home was an automatic next step.? Homlessness and disparity was a none issue? I could go on and on with reasons. The bottom line is , its not like it use to be, which is why socialism is so appealing. It offers a way to even out the playing field. Blessings.

Ken-1122 said:

There has always been people having problems with the system in place, but how does Socialism fix all of these things?

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People first over profit for starters.

Ken-1122 said:

Which people over profits? The worker? The customer? The owner? Who?

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The worker. We can take, as an example, the latest Capitalist debacle by Elon Musk.

Maria Billingsley said:

The worker. We can take, as an example, the latest Capitalist debacle by Elon Musk.

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Go on...

Ken-1122 said:

Here is a link from the CATO institute.

https://www.cato.org/commentary/why-so-many-millennials-are-socialists#

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This from the link:

'Perhaps the most important reason millennials are less concerned about socialism is that they associate socialism with Scandinavia, not the Soviet Union. Modern “socialism” today appears to be a gentler, kinder version. For instance, countries like Denmark, Sweden, and Norway offer a far more generous social safety net with much higher taxes.

In this view, government just covers people’s basic needs (from everybody’s pockets, of course), but doesn’t seize all the businesses and try to run them, or overtly attempt to control people’s consciences.

These countries actually are not socialist, but “socialistic.” To accommodate their massive social welfare spending, these countries opened their economies to free-market forces in the 1990s, sold off state-owned companies, eased restrictions on business start-ups, reduced barriers to trade and business regulation, and introduced more competition into health care and public services.'

I think there's confusion about what socialism actually is. As someone who grew up in the UK when major facets of businesses were state run (steel, railways, airlines) I have an idea of what it actually entails. But does anyone really think that oil and steel and transport should now be government run? Well, true socialists might. But your average millennial thinks socialism is, as noted above, policies that are more socialistic, such as universal healthcare.

And there is very little discussion about the actual details. The left thinks it's warm and fuzzy social welfare for those in need and the right accuse those same people of wanting to turn the US into some version of the old USSR.

True socialism is dead and buried. It was a utopian ideal that didn't consider the individual. But true capitalism in itself doesn't work either. Or rather it works for some but exacerbates problems for the rest. Checks and balances on capitalism with decent social policies would be a fair balance. But where you put the fulcrum is open to argument.

Ken-1122 said:

Which people over profits? The worker? The customer? The owner? Who?

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A fair question. It's not a zero sum equation. More money and/or better conditions for the workers means less profit for the owner and perhaps increased cost for the customer. A better deal for the customer could mean that worker and owner lose out. More profit for the owner and worker and customer pay the price.

One think is guaranteed - you'll not keep all of them completely happy.

In short, it's because the word has been watered down and redefined to the point where most young people don't know what it is.

At best, they think "it's what Denmark is", when in fact, the Nordic countries are market economies, just with expanded social safety nets.

Or, at worst, they know what it is, and are just advocating for it because it's a way to be "counter-culture" or "edgy" (sort of like wearing a Che Guevara shirt)

Ken-1122 said:

But those are not Socialist countries; there are plenty of privately owned businesses in those countries. I remember when Bernie Sanders mentioned his model idea of "Democratic Socialism" using Denmark as an example, and the Prime Minister of Denmark corrected him saying his country is not a socialist country.

Yeah' they may have lots of socialist programs; but even the USA has plenty of Socialist programs as well; though not as many as Denmark; but that doesn't make them a socialist country

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I agree. There seems to be a great deal of misundertsanding about what socialism actually would entail and what those who say they support it and those who denigrate it think it would entail.

ThatRobGuy said:

In short, it's because the word has been watered down and redefined to the point where most young people don't know what it is.

At best, they think "it's what Denmark is", when in fact, the Nordic countries are market economies, just with expanded social safety nets.

Or, at worst, they know what it is, and are just advocating for it because it's a way to be "counter-culture" or "edgy" (sort of like wearing a Che Guevara shirt)

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I agree. And in a passing anecdote re Che, I once saw a toddler's t-shirt with that classic Che Guevara silhouette printed on the front. And underneath was printed 'I have no idea who this is'. Had me giggling all day.

But then most people have no idea what socialist ideals he stood for. And, having been to Cuba, I can tell you that they definitely didn't work. At least not in the way he would have hoped for.

Maria Billingsley said:

I can see why because Capitalism is seemingly failing the younger generation. Remember the days when going to college was affordable? Getting a decent job after graduation was a shoe in ? Buying a home was an automatic next step.? Homlessness and disparity was a none issue? I could go on and on with reasons. The bottom line is , its not like it use to be, which is why socialism is so appealing. It offers a way to even out the playing field. Blessings.

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One could argue that certain government interventions made things worse for the younger generation, (like government grant programs creating upward pressure on pricing)

...but other issues were brought on themselves.


Getting a decent job after college being a "shoe in" (and the home buying that follows) is really only possible if some pragmatism is used when selecting a field of study.

It should also be noted that in the Scandinavian countries, while their college is tuition-free, they're still extremely stringent with who gets accepted to university (it's fewer than 60% of applicants), and even more stringent when it comes to "specialized fields" like Performing Arts and Journalism.

So while their college is tuition-free, it's very much a meritocracy that's heavily rooted on a pragmatic analysis of what the market can support. You're not going to see 1/3 of college kids in those countries getting a free-ride for a journalism or performing arts degree.