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Texas Rejecting the Rights of a Woman to Decide
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<blockquote data-quote="Godsunworthyservant" data-source="post: 77488351" data-attributes="member: 453150"><p>So, it's about the money for you? I hear that on both sides. When you say the state should help pay for an abortion in certain cases, you get to the heart of the debate for many. Pro-life folks usually fall on the side of "Not with my taxpayer dollars" (if not NO! NAY! NEVER!) and of course the pro-choice folks are OK with it. There's been so much bitter debate that has oft times led to violence against providers by those who claim with righteous indignation that they are doing God's work. Just another reason I believe, that as Christians, we should refrain from engaging in controversial political issues. If I state that I am pro-life, then I alienate every pro-choice person out there and vice versa. </p><p></p><p>So, the question, as always is what did Christ teach (either in words or in the way He conducted His life) and what does God say. Let's start with the teachings of Christ. We know that abortion was legal and practiced in the Roman Empire during His lifetime. As a matter of fact, the Law of 12 Tables in Rome allowed for infanticide through exposure in the case of unwanted female newborns and actually mandated that all children who were born "deformed" be subjected to the same infanticide by exposure. Yet Christ never mentioned it. I won't go into infanticide, as it's not an issue today, but it seems that on abortion, Christ is sticking to His guns in not getting involved in political issues. His ministry was of Godly matters, not political ones. </p><p></p><p>Next, let's look at what God said in the Old Testament. The killing of a fetus is mentioned only twice in the Old Testament. In Exodus 21 we read "When men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no harm follows, the one who hurt her shall be fined, according as the woman's husband shall lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe." Scholars have debated this passage for centuries, but the implication is obvious. If the fetus were considered the same as a living child, then the penalty for causing it's death would of course be death. But the penalty here is monetary. The unborn child is treated as chattel. </p><p></p><p>The next reference is found in Numbers Chapter 5 where we read,</p><p>"11 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him 13 so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah[c] of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing.16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse[d] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell." In this case God ordained a forced abortion in hat has been called the "Test of an Unfaithful Wife" or the "Ordeal of the Bitter Water". Let's be clear, I'm not advocating for forced abortion but I believe we should always study what God said about any and every issue. </p><p></p><p>So, given all this, I personally believe that as Christians there's no reason we should care what the secular authorities deem legal or illegal so long as they don't pass laws forcing us to do anything that is against God's law, Christ's teachings or your Christian morals. Since no such laws exist, I believe that we should not engage in divisive rhetoric and partisan fighting over the issue so as not to take the chance that taking such a stand would negatively affect our Christian testimony with those of the opposing opinion. I believe that Christians should use their own discretion based on the situation when deciding whether to have an abortion themselves or to support or dissuade a friend or family member who finds themselves struggling with the issue, but keep their beliefs to themselves and make changes through their vote if necessary.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Godsunworthyservant, post: 77488351, member: 453150"] So, it's about the money for you? I hear that on both sides. When you say the state should help pay for an abortion in certain cases, you get to the heart of the debate for many. Pro-life folks usually fall on the side of "Not with my taxpayer dollars" (if not NO! NAY! NEVER!) and of course the pro-choice folks are OK with it. There's been so much bitter debate that has oft times led to violence against providers by those who claim with righteous indignation that they are doing God's work. Just another reason I believe, that as Christians, we should refrain from engaging in controversial political issues. If I state that I am pro-life, then I alienate every pro-choice person out there and vice versa. So, the question, as always is what did Christ teach (either in words or in the way He conducted His life) and what does God say. Let's start with the teachings of Christ. We know that abortion was legal and practiced in the Roman Empire during His lifetime. As a matter of fact, the Law of 12 Tables in Rome allowed for infanticide through exposure in the case of unwanted female newborns and actually mandated that all children who were born "deformed" be subjected to the same infanticide by exposure. Yet Christ never mentioned it. I won't go into infanticide, as it's not an issue today, but it seems that on abortion, Christ is sticking to His guns in not getting involved in political issues. His ministry was of Godly matters, not political ones. Next, let's look at what God said in the Old Testament. The killing of a fetus is mentioned only twice in the Old Testament. In Exodus 21 we read "When men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no harm follows, the one who hurt her shall be fined, according as the woman's husband shall lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe." Scholars have debated this passage for centuries, but the implication is obvious. If the fetus were considered the same as a living child, then the penalty for causing it's death would of course be death. But the penalty here is monetary. The unborn child is treated as chattel. The next reference is found in Numbers Chapter 5 where we read, "11 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him 13 so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah[c] of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing.16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse[d] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell." In this case God ordained a forced abortion in hat has been called the "Test of an Unfaithful Wife" or the "Ordeal of the Bitter Water". Let's be clear, I'm not advocating for forced abortion but I believe we should always study what God said about any and every issue. So, given all this, I personally believe that as Christians there's no reason we should care what the secular authorities deem legal or illegal so long as they don't pass laws forcing us to do anything that is against God's law, Christ's teachings or your Christian morals. Since no such laws exist, I believe that we should not engage in divisive rhetoric and partisan fighting over the issue so as not to take the chance that taking such a stand would negatively affect our Christian testimony with those of the opposing opinion. I believe that Christians should use their own discretion based on the situation when deciding whether to have an abortion themselves or to support or dissuade a friend or family member who finds themselves struggling with the issue, but keep their beliefs to themselves and make changes through their vote if necessary. [/QUOTE]
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