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Discussion and Debate
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Ethics & Morality
Kid's Corporal Punishment - a Risk to Mental Health
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<blockquote data-quote="stevevw" data-source="post: 77658297" data-attributes="member: 342064"><p>Ok so saying that the Pope should only be a male is abusive.</p><p></p><p>But its not normal if that cognitive distortion leads to abuse or violence or any destructive of self destructive behaviour.</p><p></p><p>But abuse is not or should not be normnalised behaviour. Beliefs in abuse are destructive and that can only be something negative and not positive. To believe in such negative and destructive ideas takes a negative mindset. People who are positive and constructive don't think is detructive ways that abuse.</p><p></p><p>Try smiling when your full of negativity and destruction. They don;'t even physically belong in the same category. Negative stress and distress brings physical and psychological problems and positive and contructive thinking brings health and wellbeing. You can't be an abuser and be thinking positively and constructively.</p><p></p><p>It is common sense in that basically negative experiences form negative thinking and beliefs and positive experiences and influences form postive beliefs.</p><p></p><p>Why, if the beliefs of abusers is different to the beliefs of non abusers then it stands to reason that the cognitions which the beliefs are based on are also different. They cannot be the same otherwise they would not be abusers.</p><p></p><p>We don't just say believers have the exact same thinking as non abusers. Of course their thinking is different because their behaviour is different and different behaviours have different thinking behind them.</p><p></p><p>Yes they are. They are measuring the controlling mindset of someone who comes up with ideas like abusive hierarchies and roles or violent behaviour. Their taking a step back from the particular example that controlling beliefs are applied to like roles and hierarchies and examining what sort of mind thinks up these ideas. They then have created a clinical measure of how this mindset thinks to believe such things.</p><p></p><p>I noticed you kept quiet about the other core beliefs of Demandingness and Low Frustration Tolerence because I linked independent evdience that they are directly related to abusive parenting. I can do the same for these other core beliefs is you want.</p><p></p><p>A common theme through most of the articles I linked was that parents have low self esteem and unreal self efficency and expectations. These are related to self downing and awfulising in that abusive parents make things far worse than they really are, making the child's behaviour worse than it is, making the world more threatening than it is (awfulizing) and always comparing themselves to others thus always feeling inadequate and unworthy (self downing).</p><p></p><p>The self downing feeds into the downing of the child, of others, the situation which feeds into the frustration and demandingness. But Demandingness is said to be the basis for all these other beliefs that are also associated. </p><p></p><p>They all relate. You just have to understand first the mindset of someone who will form unreal beliefs no matter what they are or what inappropriate behaviour. Then the particular thinking of the abuser. Many of the same cognitions that underpin all other irrational beliefs and behaviour are the same for abusers. Thats why the PRIBS is based on the General RIBS with the particular refinements for parents.</p><p></p><p>So the other core beliefs also relate and are part of the mindset. Its just that Demandingness and Low Frustration Tolerance to a lesser degree directly relate to the mindset of control and abuse. But the other core beliefs also relate to the same overall mindset but measure the other beliefs that spring out of Demandingness.</p><p></p><p>If someone is demanding they are usually an anxious and stressed type. Little tolerance but also over anxious and insecure in themselves and thats why they are demanding because they are trying to compensate, bring control to a percieved threat to their status and world which they are so overly worried about. Thats when the awfulising and self downing come in. That is why the PRIBS works so well because its comprehensive, it measures all the aspects of the controlling and abusive mind.</p><p></p><p>Thats because clinical measures are not looking at the specific examples of behaviour or beliefs that are applied out in the world but the mindset behind this. The mindset that creates those examples that are applied to the world. You just don't see it because you don't want to see it. But believe me its there.</p><p></p><p>We can tell its there because every article I have linked that are directly about parental abuse and violence contain all those core beliefs in the language they use. Ie just about all say that abusers have low self esteem (self downing). Just about all have said the parent has unreal expectations making things far worse than they really are (awefulizing).</p><p></p><p>So a parent knocks a childs front teeth in and its a subjective determination that its wrong. Someone with an alternative subjective belief who thinks its ok and we have no way to tell which behaviour is inappropriate. Then we are really in trouble then. </p><p></p><p>That maybe your ideology but its not mine. We can tell that kicking a kids teeth is negative and abusive because we can measure the phsyical and psychological damage it does to the human.</p><p></p><p>Filtered through our beliefs and value systems. So what about the cognition and emotional systems. What about the biological and neurological systems. </p><p></p><p>Unreal expectations are the cognitive distortions that form the belief. The parent has unreal expectations of their child. Thats why they physically beat them because they believe that normal developmental behaviour is bad behaviour. They often beat a child for doing nothing wrong or nothing wrong that warrented such a harsh punishment.</p><p></p><p><strong>Recognising Child Abuse, Harm and Exploitation</strong></p><p><em><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">Parent/caregiver has </span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><strong>unrealistic expectations of age appropriate behaviour of the child</strong>;</span></em></p><p>[URL unfurl="true"]https://tfhc.nt.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0018/1216314/recognising-child-abuse-harm-and-exploitation.pdf[/URL]</p><p></p><p><strong>Risk Factors of Child Abuse</strong></p><p><em><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">Parents have </span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><strong>unrealistic expectations of the child</strong></span><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"> and lack parenting knowledge</span></em></p><p><em><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.childmatters.org.nz/insights/risk-factors/[/URL]</span></em></p><p> </p><p><em><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">The abusive parents </span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><strong>have unrealistic expectations of their children</strong></span><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"> who show developmentally appropriate behavior.4 </span></em></p><p><a href="https://www.parentingforbrain.com/abusive-parents/" target="_blank">Why Do Parents Physically Abuse Their Children</a></p><p></p><p><strong>The following factors in the life circumstances of the child or young person are relevant when considering indicators of abuse and neglect:</strong></p><p><em><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">The parent or caregiver has</span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><strong> unrealistic expectations of age appropriate behaviour in the child or young person</strong></span></em></p><p>[URL unfurl="true"]https://education.nsw.gov.au/schooling/school-community/child-protection/child-protection-policy-guidelines/resources[/URL]</p><p></p><p><em><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><strong>Child abuse is thought to be caused by a number of factors, including </strong></span><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">the parent’s problems with coping and self-control, inadequate knowledge of child development resulting in </span></em><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><em><strong>unrealistic parental expectations</strong></em></span><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"><em>,</em></span> </p><p><a href="https://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/PrecedentAULA/2014/51.html" target="_blank">Walker, Gayann; Ensor, Jane --- "Understanding the victims of child abuse" [2014] PrecedentAULA 51; (2014) 124 Precedent 46</a></p><p> </p><p><strong><em><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)">Unrealistic expectations</span><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">:</span></em></strong><em><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"> Controlling parents typically have </span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><strong>high expectations</strong></span><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">, which puts a lot of pressure on their children to live up to these impossibly high and unachievable standards. <em><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">Controlling parents are often perfectionists with </span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><strong>unnatural demands and expectations</strong></span><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"> from their children. </span></em></span></em></p><p><u>[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.medicinenet.com/when_should_your_parents_stop_controlling_you/article.htm[/URL]</u></p><p> </p><p><em><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">The cognitive style is absolutistic and dogmatic, usually expressed in “black and white,” “I must be right thinking because I said so,” </span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><strong>unrealistic expectancies </strong></span><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">that others want to threaten their </span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><strong>self-esteem</strong></span><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">. </span></em></p><p><a href="https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/B:JORE.0000011574.44362.8f" target="_blank">Irrational Beliefs and the Experience and Expression of Anger - Journal of Rational-Emotive & Cognitive-Behavior Therapy</a></p><p></p><p><em><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">We postulate that </span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><strong>parents’ expectations and perceptions </strong></span><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">of child attributes strongly influence their responses to their children, and thus may be important predictors of risk for physical abuse.</span></em></p><p><em><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0145213418301248[/URL]</span></em></p><p> </p><p>If I was to go over all of the articles I have linked so far that are directly about child abuse and highlight the parts relating to the PRIBS core beliefs you would find their fingerprints all over those articles showing the direct links between the PRIBS core beliefs and the language used describing the abusive parent.</p><p></p><p>Thus providing independent evidence that they all converge on the same measure and understanding of the abusive and controlling mindset behind those who abuse and use violence against others..</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="stevevw, post: 77658297, member: 342064"] Ok so saying that the Pope should only be a male is abusive. But its not normal if that cognitive distortion leads to abuse or violence or any destructive of self destructive behaviour. But abuse is not or should not be normnalised behaviour. Beliefs in abuse are destructive and that can only be something negative and not positive. To believe in such negative and destructive ideas takes a negative mindset. People who are positive and constructive don't think is detructive ways that abuse. Try smiling when your full of negativity and destruction. They don;'t even physically belong in the same category. Negative stress and distress brings physical and psychological problems and positive and contructive thinking brings health and wellbeing. You can't be an abuser and be thinking positively and constructively. It is common sense in that basically negative experiences form negative thinking and beliefs and positive experiences and influences form postive beliefs. Why, if the beliefs of abusers is different to the beliefs of non abusers then it stands to reason that the cognitions which the beliefs are based on are also different. They cannot be the same otherwise they would not be abusers. We don't just say believers have the exact same thinking as non abusers. Of course their thinking is different because their behaviour is different and different behaviours have different thinking behind them. Yes they are. They are measuring the controlling mindset of someone who comes up with ideas like abusive hierarchies and roles or violent behaviour. Their taking a step back from the particular example that controlling beliefs are applied to like roles and hierarchies and examining what sort of mind thinks up these ideas. They then have created a clinical measure of how this mindset thinks to believe such things. I noticed you kept quiet about the other core beliefs of Demandingness and Low Frustration Tolerence because I linked independent evdience that they are directly related to abusive parenting. I can do the same for these other core beliefs is you want. A common theme through most of the articles I linked was that parents have low self esteem and unreal self efficency and expectations. These are related to self downing and awfulising in that abusive parents make things far worse than they really are, making the child's behaviour worse than it is, making the world more threatening than it is (awfulizing) and always comparing themselves to others thus always feeling inadequate and unworthy (self downing). The self downing feeds into the downing of the child, of others, the situation which feeds into the frustration and demandingness. But Demandingness is said to be the basis for all these other beliefs that are also associated. They all relate. You just have to understand first the mindset of someone who will form unreal beliefs no matter what they are or what inappropriate behaviour. Then the particular thinking of the abuser. Many of the same cognitions that underpin all other irrational beliefs and behaviour are the same for abusers. Thats why the PRIBS is based on the General RIBS with the particular refinements for parents. So the other core beliefs also relate and are part of the mindset. Its just that Demandingness and Low Frustration Tolerance to a lesser degree directly relate to the mindset of control and abuse. But the other core beliefs also relate to the same overall mindset but measure the other beliefs that spring out of Demandingness. If someone is demanding they are usually an anxious and stressed type. Little tolerance but also over anxious and insecure in themselves and thats why they are demanding because they are trying to compensate, bring control to a percieved threat to their status and world which they are so overly worried about. Thats when the awfulising and self downing come in. That is why the PRIBS works so well because its comprehensive, it measures all the aspects of the controlling and abusive mind. Thats because clinical measures are not looking at the specific examples of behaviour or beliefs that are applied out in the world but the mindset behind this. The mindset that creates those examples that are applied to the world. You just don't see it because you don't want to see it. But believe me its there. We can tell its there because every article I have linked that are directly about parental abuse and violence contain all those core beliefs in the language they use. Ie just about all say that abusers have low self esteem (self downing). Just about all have said the parent has unreal expectations making things far worse than they really are (awefulizing). So a parent knocks a childs front teeth in and its a subjective determination that its wrong. Someone with an alternative subjective belief who thinks its ok and we have no way to tell which behaviour is inappropriate. Then we are really in trouble then. That maybe your ideology but its not mine. We can tell that kicking a kids teeth is negative and abusive because we can measure the phsyical and psychological damage it does to the human. Filtered through our beliefs and value systems. So what about the cognition and emotional systems. What about the biological and neurological systems. Unreal expectations are the cognitive distortions that form the belief. The parent has unreal expectations of their child. Thats why they physically beat them because they believe that normal developmental behaviour is bad behaviour. They often beat a child for doing nothing wrong or nothing wrong that warrented such a harsh punishment. [B]Recognising Child Abuse, Harm and Exploitation[/B] [I][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)]Parent/caregiver has [/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][B]unrealistic expectations of age appropriate behaviour of the child[/B];[/COLOR][/I] [URL unfurl="true"]https://tfhc.nt.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0018/1216314/recognising-child-abuse-harm-and-exploitation.pdf[/URL] [B]Risk Factors of Child Abuse[/B] [I][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)]Parents have [/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][B]unrealistic expectations of the child[/B][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)] and lack parenting knowledge [URL unfurl="true"]https://www.childmatters.org.nz/insights/risk-factors/[/URL][/COLOR][/I] [I][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)]The abusive parents [/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][B]have unrealistic expectations of their children[/B][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)] who show developmentally appropriate behavior.4 [/COLOR][/I] [URL='https://www.parentingforbrain.com/abusive-parents/']Why Do Parents Physically Abuse Their Children[/URL] [B]The following factors in the life circumstances of the child or young person are relevant when considering indicators of abuse and neglect:[/B] [I][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)]The parent or caregiver has[/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][B] unrealistic expectations of age appropriate behaviour in the child or young person[/B][/COLOR][/I] [URL unfurl="true"]https://education.nsw.gov.au/schooling/school-community/child-protection/child-protection-policy-guidelines/resources[/URL] [I][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][B]Child abuse is thought to be caused by a number of factors, including [/B][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)]the parent’s problems with coping and self-control, inadequate knowledge of child development resulting in [/COLOR][/I][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][I][B]unrealistic parental expectations[/B][/I][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)][I],[/I][/COLOR] [URL='https://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/PrecedentAULA/2014/51.html']Walker, Gayann; Ensor, Jane --- "Understanding the victims of child abuse" [2014] PrecedentAULA 51; (2014) 124 Precedent 46[/URL] [B][I][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)]Unrealistic expectations[/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)]:[/COLOR][/I][/B][I][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)] Controlling parents typically have [/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][B]high expectations[/B][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)], which puts a lot of pressure on their children to live up to these impossibly high and unachievable standards. [I][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)]Controlling parents are often perfectionists with [/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][B]unnatural demands and expectations[/B][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)] from their children. [/COLOR][/I][/COLOR][/I] [U][URL unfurl="true"]https://www.medicinenet.com/when_should_your_parents_stop_controlling_you/article.htm[/URL][/U] [I][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)]The cognitive style is absolutistic and dogmatic, usually expressed in “black and white,” “I must be right thinking because I said so,” [/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][B]unrealistic expectancies [/B][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)]that others want to threaten their [/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][B]self-esteem[/B][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)]. [/COLOR][/I] [URL='https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/B:JORE.0000011574.44362.8f']Irrational Beliefs and the Experience and Expression of Anger - Journal of Rational-Emotive & Cognitive-Behavior Therapy[/URL] [I][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)]We postulate that [/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][B]parents’ expectations and perceptions [/B][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)]of child attributes strongly influence their responses to their children, and thus may be important predictors of risk for physical abuse. [URL unfurl="true"]https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0145213418301248[/URL][/COLOR][/I] If I was to go over all of the articles I have linked so far that are directly about child abuse and highlight the parts relating to the PRIBS core beliefs you would find their fingerprints all over those articles showing the direct links between the PRIBS core beliefs and the language used describing the abusive parent. Thus providing independent evidence that they all converge on the same measure and understanding of the abusive and controlling mindset behind those who abuse and use violence against others.. [/QUOTE]
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