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Discussion and Debate
Discussion and Debate
Ethics & Morality
Kid's Corporal Punishment - a Risk to Mental Health
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<blockquote data-quote="Paidiske" data-source="post: 77658097" data-attributes="member: 386627"><p>It seems to me that you use the word "mindset" to mean something like "psychological state." But that doesn't follow. People can have different psychological states but similar beliefs. Or similar psychological states but different beliefs. Because these things are not dependent on one another. </p><p></p><p>Nobody is arguing against this, though. Only against control beyond what is necessary for preventing harm.</p><p></p><p>Well, not entirely. Someone could see their role as primarily one of control, but still not believe they should enforce this with violence. It's the <em>cluster</em> of beliefs which underpin abuse. </p><p></p><p>Well, no, they don't really believe in the same idea. They have different ideas of what the parenting role entails.</p><p></p><p>I could have sworn you were arguing against this earlier. </p><p></p><p>No, it really isn't. One's state of mind - one's mood or mental state - might colour one's beliefs, but belief is far more complex than this. And we can see this by the way people's beliefs can be relatively stable despite changes in mood or mental state. </p><p></p><p>I will just note that I asked you to cite a source, and you did not. </p><p></p><p>It tells us that the person is likely to tolerate, accept, and promote, relationships of power, control, and dominance. </p><p></p><p>Of course you cannot. People with exactly the same risk factors believe vastly different things. This is so obvious, I am gobsmacked that I need to point it out. </p><p></p><p>I'm sorry, but you still have not demonstrated that people hold the beliefs which underpin abuse due to "cognitive distortion." There is no sound basis for this claim. </p><p></p><p>So you claim something is true, you cannot provide any evidence for it, and then instead of simply acknowledging that you have none, you characterise the request as "unreal." </p><p></p><p>Well, if they don't measure the specific beliefs which are relevant, then they are not evidence pertinent to those beliefs. </p><p></p><p>And yet when we have looked at the specific things those scales measure, we find that in fact, they do not measure the specific beliefs, or the determinants of the specific beliefs, which underpin abuse. "Demandingness" is the area of overlap, but those scales measure other unrelated traits, and do not measure traits which relate to, for example, the acceptance of violence. </p><p></p><p>So these scales do not explain the mindset which underlies abuse. At best - for people who score highly on demandingness - they are partially related, and at worst, they are not related at all. </p><p></p><p>What makes you think everyday unrealistic thinking, or denial, doesn't lead to inappropriate behaviour? Again, I see plenty of it, often. </p><p></p><p>This is not something that needs some clinical level of cognitive distortion, brought about by high distress or "risk factors," to be in play.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Paidiske, post: 77658097, member: 386627"] It seems to me that you use the word "mindset" to mean something like "psychological state." But that doesn't follow. People can have different psychological states but similar beliefs. Or similar psychological states but different beliefs. Because these things are not dependent on one another. Nobody is arguing against this, though. Only against control beyond what is necessary for preventing harm. Well, not entirely. Someone could see their role as primarily one of control, but still not believe they should enforce this with violence. It's the [I]cluster[/I] of beliefs which underpin abuse. Well, no, they don't really believe in the same idea. They have different ideas of what the parenting role entails. I could have sworn you were arguing against this earlier. No, it really isn't. One's state of mind - one's mood or mental state - might colour one's beliefs, but belief is far more complex than this. And we can see this by the way people's beliefs can be relatively stable despite changes in mood or mental state. I will just note that I asked you to cite a source, and you did not. It tells us that the person is likely to tolerate, accept, and promote, relationships of power, control, and dominance. Of course you cannot. People with exactly the same risk factors believe vastly different things. This is so obvious, I am gobsmacked that I need to point it out. I'm sorry, but you still have not demonstrated that people hold the beliefs which underpin abuse due to "cognitive distortion." There is no sound basis for this claim. So you claim something is true, you cannot provide any evidence for it, and then instead of simply acknowledging that you have none, you characterise the request as "unreal." Well, if they don't measure the specific beliefs which are relevant, then they are not evidence pertinent to those beliefs. And yet when we have looked at the specific things those scales measure, we find that in fact, they do not measure the specific beliefs, or the determinants of the specific beliefs, which underpin abuse. "Demandingness" is the area of overlap, but those scales measure other unrelated traits, and do not measure traits which relate to, for example, the acceptance of violence. So these scales do not explain the mindset which underlies abuse. At best - for people who score highly on demandingness - they are partially related, and at worst, they are not related at all. What makes you think everyday unrealistic thinking, or denial, doesn't lead to inappropriate behaviour? Again, I see plenty of it, often. This is not something that needs some clinical level of cognitive distortion, brought about by high distress or "risk factors," to be in play. [/QUOTE]
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