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Discussion and Debate
Discussion and Debate
Ethics & Morality
Kid's Corporal Punishment - a Risk to Mental Health
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<blockquote data-quote="stevevw" data-source="post: 77655684" data-attributes="member: 342064"><p>The think is you ask a parent do they believe in say CP and they say yes. That doesn't tell us if they are abusive. But a parent who believes in CP and also displays the risk factors and thinking of an abuser will give much more weight to the belief being irrational and associated with abuse. </p><p></p><p>The situation and conditions and the individual state has everything to do with it. JUst as a person being subjected to constant stresses on the body will take theeir toll and influence thinking and physical reactions so will the negative experiences due to situations take a toll. </p><p></p><p>People who ate in these distressed states are more open to irrational and negative beliefs. People who are well adjusted and psychological stable are not volnurable to unreal and irrational beliefs. It takes a certain mindset to believe in and need irrational and destructive ideas.</p><p></p><p>I had to double check that I had not written this until I got to the end and realised it wasn't. Your repeating exactly what I am saying except that its not about the belieefs that drive abuse but the determinants that drive belief. Its one step back from the expressed belief as thats just the symptom. Its what actually drives people to form negative and destructful beliefs in the first place. </p><p></p><p>But the same hierarchies can be productive, beneficial and actually help society. So its wrong to label all hierarchies or any hierarchy for that matter unless it actually contains proven abuse. We cannot just say because a hiearchy has different levels of power and control that its abusive. </p><p></p><p>There are natural differences in dominance in society to to the natural differences in competencies across various lines of difference between humans. We often use those hierarchies to help not hinder. </p><p></p><p>Ah this is why the ideologues want to defund the police because the whole systems abusive. They take this position due to the unreal belief that any structure in soiciety that has some power over others is abusive. And they take this position because they see the world in terms of oppressor and victim and all differences as a result of abuse and oppression.</p><p></p><p>But the majority of the police and other systems that may have some power or sway over us are just how we have to structure society. What is the solution the police have no power, make everyone exactly the same where no one can have an advantage over another like in some totalitarian regime. </p><p></p><p>Its just a fact of life that people are diufferent and not all differences of priviledge, power and control are abusive or even about abuse, power and control. Most of it is percieved as abuse, power and control because thats the ideological world view or lens in which they see the world as every difference socially contructed and about power and control, oppressor and victims. </p><p></p><p>Yes but the power and control element is still there for good and natural reasons. I want the law, police to have a certain level of power and control over people. </p><p></p><p>Look at Covid and how many were objecting to being restricted, said it was a breach or their rights, denying them autonomy. Look at the conflict this caused and how some were putting at risk others. But not just for law but for allowing things to run smoothly and avoid the chaos that would enschew if we didn't have any structure to society that ranks people. We would be able to tell a madman from a sane one or a talent from a trickster. </p><p></p><p>Why did you bring it to marriage and family when I did not mention this. It seems its more on your mind than mine. Like you have preconccieved ideological assumptions about hierarchies. </p><p></p><p>Its not just a concern for marriages but society, existence, reality. If we attack what is natural or our own experiences then we are attacking ourselves, our own existence. This is being seen in how more and more young people are attacking their own culture as oppressive. Re writing our history as only oppressive and then calling for a new DEI and Marxist Utopia. Not good and unreal and will inevitably lead to chaos and self destruction. </p><p></p><p>Thats rather dismissive to assume what I am saying is tedious repetition rather than dignifying it with a reason. I did not know this. All it comes across to me is being dismissing and not paying respect to my views and efforts or that other people may have different views to you that deserve to be heard. </p><p></p><p>No we can't lol. The same ideologues that call for preventing abuse are the ones promoting it with their oiwn beliefs. If we can't identify obvious beliefs underpinning our own policies that lead to abuse then we cannot identify beliefs period as what is abuse for one is protection and equality for another. </p><p></p><p>So we have actual live evidence that we cannot demonstrate which subjective beliefs unpin abuse. Many parents believe in using CP to control childrens behaviour. That qualifies under your belief as abuse. Yet the majority are not abusive. Many parents sue authoritive parenting, in fact it was one of the methods on the new parenting show about mnodern parenting. It involves other forms of control. </p><p></p><p>Is this abusive to believe in. I suggest that the line is rather blurred and apaprt from obvious examples its hard to tell which beliefs actually underpin abuse. </p><p></p><p>I linked plenty of evidence for how hiearchies are natural, beneficial, that humans nbaturally think in terms of ranking people, of dominance hierachies for example based on strength. We cannot help but think in these terms as we derive our identities and ways of running soiciety more efficently. So these are in our minds and we implicitely believe in them because we live them everyday. </p><p></p><p>Theres your problem, your ideology is biasing your thinking. To speak in terms of defending our natural inclinations or top assume differences in power, control and competencies is automatically abusive shows a one sides view. You find it hard to accept that life can be hard and cruel and that sometimes people get what they put in. That anyone who succeeds and gains advantage is not doing so because they naturally were better, or warded harder but did so because they wanted to abuse and cvontrol others. </p><p></p><p>The reality is we don't live in a communist nation where creativity and ability is shackled and so differences in power and control will happen. Now maybe theres a debate about the whole worldly setup as far as how material wealth, capitalism ect is behind much of this. But I don't think theres any easy answers.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="stevevw, post: 77655684, member: 342064"] The think is you ask a parent do they believe in say CP and they say yes. That doesn't tell us if they are abusive. But a parent who believes in CP and also displays the risk factors and thinking of an abuser will give much more weight to the belief being irrational and associated with abuse. The situation and conditions and the individual state has everything to do with it. JUst as a person being subjected to constant stresses on the body will take theeir toll and influence thinking and physical reactions so will the negative experiences due to situations take a toll. People who ate in these distressed states are more open to irrational and negative beliefs. People who are well adjusted and psychological stable are not volnurable to unreal and irrational beliefs. It takes a certain mindset to believe in and need irrational and destructive ideas. I had to double check that I had not written this until I got to the end and realised it wasn't. Your repeating exactly what I am saying except that its not about the belieefs that drive abuse but the determinants that drive belief. Its one step back from the expressed belief as thats just the symptom. Its what actually drives people to form negative and destructful beliefs in the first place. But the same hierarchies can be productive, beneficial and actually help society. So its wrong to label all hierarchies or any hierarchy for that matter unless it actually contains proven abuse. We cannot just say because a hiearchy has different levels of power and control that its abusive. There are natural differences in dominance in society to to the natural differences in competencies across various lines of difference between humans. We often use those hierarchies to help not hinder. Ah this is why the ideologues want to defund the police because the whole systems abusive. They take this position due to the unreal belief that any structure in soiciety that has some power over others is abusive. And they take this position because they see the world in terms of oppressor and victim and all differences as a result of abuse and oppression. But the majority of the police and other systems that may have some power or sway over us are just how we have to structure society. What is the solution the police have no power, make everyone exactly the same where no one can have an advantage over another like in some totalitarian regime. Its just a fact of life that people are diufferent and not all differences of priviledge, power and control are abusive or even about abuse, power and control. Most of it is percieved as abuse, power and control because thats the ideological world view or lens in which they see the world as every difference socially contructed and about power and control, oppressor and victims. Yes but the power and control element is still there for good and natural reasons. I want the law, police to have a certain level of power and control over people. Look at Covid and how many were objecting to being restricted, said it was a breach or their rights, denying them autonomy. Look at the conflict this caused and how some were putting at risk others. But not just for law but for allowing things to run smoothly and avoid the chaos that would enschew if we didn't have any structure to society that ranks people. We would be able to tell a madman from a sane one or a talent from a trickster. Why did you bring it to marriage and family when I did not mention this. It seems its more on your mind than mine. Like you have preconccieved ideological assumptions about hierarchies. Its not just a concern for marriages but society, existence, reality. If we attack what is natural or our own experiences then we are attacking ourselves, our own existence. This is being seen in how more and more young people are attacking their own culture as oppressive. Re writing our history as only oppressive and then calling for a new DEI and Marxist Utopia. Not good and unreal and will inevitably lead to chaos and self destruction. Thats rather dismissive to assume what I am saying is tedious repetition rather than dignifying it with a reason. I did not know this. All it comes across to me is being dismissing and not paying respect to my views and efforts or that other people may have different views to you that deserve to be heard. No we can't lol. The same ideologues that call for preventing abuse are the ones promoting it with their oiwn beliefs. If we can't identify obvious beliefs underpinning our own policies that lead to abuse then we cannot identify beliefs period as what is abuse for one is protection and equality for another. So we have actual live evidence that we cannot demonstrate which subjective beliefs unpin abuse. Many parents believe in using CP to control childrens behaviour. That qualifies under your belief as abuse. Yet the majority are not abusive. Many parents sue authoritive parenting, in fact it was one of the methods on the new parenting show about mnodern parenting. It involves other forms of control. Is this abusive to believe in. I suggest that the line is rather blurred and apaprt from obvious examples its hard to tell which beliefs actually underpin abuse. I linked plenty of evidence for how hiearchies are natural, beneficial, that humans nbaturally think in terms of ranking people, of dominance hierachies for example based on strength. We cannot help but think in these terms as we derive our identities and ways of running soiciety more efficently. So these are in our minds and we implicitely believe in them because we live them everyday. Theres your problem, your ideology is biasing your thinking. To speak in terms of defending our natural inclinations or top assume differences in power, control and competencies is automatically abusive shows a one sides view. You find it hard to accept that life can be hard and cruel and that sometimes people get what they put in. That anyone who succeeds and gains advantage is not doing so because they naturally were better, or warded harder but did so because they wanted to abuse and cvontrol others. The reality is we don't live in a communist nation where creativity and ability is shackled and so differences in power and control will happen. Now maybe theres a debate about the whole worldly setup as far as how material wealth, capitalism ect is behind much of this. But I don't think theres any easy answers. [/QUOTE]
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