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Discussion and Debate
Discussion and Debate
Ethics & Morality
Kid's Corporal Punishment - a Risk to Mental Health
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<blockquote data-quote="stevevw" data-source="post: 77652956" data-attributes="member: 342064"><p>I am pointing out that your saying a hierarchy itself is abusive and controlling. I am saying with these examples they they are not in themselves and it takes an abusing person to make them so. But because people can also make hierarchies benefical and they can naturally form as a result of societies natural inclination to categorize people based on competencies they are not abusive themselves. </p><p></p><p>But because they can possibly become problematic means they are themselves not problematic and only become that way when someone exploits them. </p><p></p><p>We went through the rigid roles of household settings. A trad marriage has rigid roles but is not controllong in an abusive way. In fact those who advocate them say they are beneficial. </p><p></p><p>You missed the point. We only know these beliefs because of the abuse. But beforehand we didn't. There was no way to tell which beliefs were negative and led to abuse. So theres no way to tell which beliefs will lead to abuse in the future until they actually are linked to abuse. Its always hindsight. </p><p></p><p>But we can tell the risk factors because we understand how humans think and behave and that certain thinking and psychological disorders do lead to bad behaviour through the science. </p><p></p><p>Except if someone has a belief in hierarchies which is often subconscious and natural we cannot say that belief is hierarchies is abusive and controlling. Beliefs are subjective. Like I said at present there are beliefs being promoted in society that have been shown to be abusive and yet society or at least those in positions of influence advocate them as being good. </p><p></p><p>Its only grounding beliefs in what actually happens and not speculating which beliefs are negative and abusive that we can know for sure which beliefs are abusive and controlling in a negative way.</p><p></p><p>I think this language and narrative is damaging in itself as you keep conflating that hierarchies themselves are part of the problem. Rather you should be saying that a hierarchy 'becomes' abusive in the hands of the wrong person. Just like a car becomes a weapon and harms others in the hands of the wrong person. But the car itself in not abusive. </p><p></p><p>No we havn't. The same beliefs in hierarchies and rigid roles can be shown to not be abusive. </p><p></p><p>It is partly why they abuse and your dismissing this like its completely irrelevant. Its like telling a sunstance abuser that their past experiences have nothing to do with their addiction and its because they have the wrong belief. </p><p></p><p>All and I repeat all the evidence states that the negative experiences of a person and the distress and other factors or determinants linked to abuse are exactly why parents abuse. So your dismissing the facts just like dimissing the facts that show that past experiences and psychological and emotional distress are linked to other negative behaviour like substance abuse, gang violence, DV, criminality, anti social behaviour. </p><p></p><p>Somehow because of your pre concieved ideas you make inappropriate parental behaviour immune to these natural human cognitions and behaviours. Once again the facts and not ideology. Just look at all the evidence I have linked showing that parental negative experiences and the resulting distress is linked to the vast majority of abuse. </p><p></p><p>And before you use the logical fallacy that its not the cause, there is no single cause and but rather its the combination of risk factors minus protective factors. </p><p></p><p>Well your the one who is saying that a parents experiences are irrelevant to their behaviour and situations. </p><p></p><p>Most of why people stop abusing is due to practical support and not particularly about beliefs. For example when a distress parents with unreal beliefs and expectations who is behaving inappropriately towards their child recieves therapy the abuse eventually stops. As your link mentions psychiatrict patients who recieved treatment became less of a abuse risk.</p><p></p><p>As my links showed when disadvantaged parents are given resources and support the abuse deminishes. You can't change beliefs and attitudes unless you change the psychological mindset that has been cultivated to believe in abuse and violence. </p><p></p><p>Just as the previous reply is saying that its addressing the psychological state of the person which changes beliefs and attitudes and not addressing the belief itself. Addressing the beliefs and attituides means addressing the psychological mindset of the person because the belief is caused by the psychological mindset which has been cultivated through personal experiences. </p><p></p><p>So your advocating repentence for society to overcome abuse. Repentence is often about being reshaped into a new person, the renewing of the mind. Most of the time this is a long process. </p><p></p><p>You don't tell an addict to repent as they will run away. But you can get them to admit they have a problem and that their life has become unmanagable. Then its about therapy, looking at self, the negative experiences that underly the behaviour. Its addressing these that the hold beliefs and behaviour have over people that will broken. </p><p></p><p>In other words negative beliefs that lead to negative behaviour have a lot of negative experiences and the resulting negative impacts on thinking and emotions behind them. Like I said you have to earn your beliefs, they don't come easy. You have to be primed to believe in them. </p><p></p><p>Yes and to do that means lifting the lid on whats going on inside the person, their negative thinking, feelings and perceptions. What happened that they come to a point where they are acting so destructive and not constructive.</p><p></p><p>Then you have just wiped out all child organisations that help and protect children and support parents as well as every other research and approach that uses the risk and protective factors for every other social behavioural problem regarding health and wellbeing. </p><p></p><p>What is this so called "a lot" that is not related to abuse. Give me some examples. </p><p></p><p>Saying the PRIBS doesn't measure abusive beliefs and attitudes of parents is like saying a an anxiety scale doesn't measure the most important anxiety disorders. </p><p></p><p>I just gave it to you. What you need to do is explain why say 'Demandingness' which is the core beliefs behind ideas like rigid roles and abusive controlling hierarchies is not a measure for those beliefs. </p><p></p><p>What is it that makes roles rigid. Is it the role itself or the thinking behind the idea. Its the thinking, the cognitive ddistortions and mindset. This is exactly what the PRIBS especially Damandingness is measuring, the rigid and controlling mindset and it describes that mindset of rigid and controlling in its thinking and beliefs about the world. It takes a person with this mindset to come up with the idea of using roles and hierarchies to abuse and control. </p><p></p><p>No all you did was link a pretty picture of a Venn diagram with no link to what it was referring to. Therefore the pretty Venn means nothing but a couple of overlapping circles. You then made up some stuff about the PRIBS not covering abusive and controlling parental beliefs also without a shred of evidence or reasoning explaining how exactly this is the case.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0)">Yes they do in varying degrees. If you look at the mindset, the thinking and perceptions behind the other core beliefs we can find that aspects depending on the individual and their personality type and traits as well as the particular experiences which will determine how parents see themselves, others and the world these other core beliefs relate exactly to why parents behave inappropriately and abuse their children.</span></p><p></p><p>For example the core belief of Low Frustration Tolerance has been linked to abusive and controlling parenting ie </p><p> </p><p><em><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">Among components of Low frustration tolerance (LFT) are </span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><strong>emotion intolerance, behavior intolerance, discomfort intolerance, rules intolerance, entitlement</strong></span><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"> (intolerance of unfairness and frustrated gratification), </span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><strong>achievement intolerance </strong></span><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">(intolerance of frustrated achievement goals), uncertainty intolerance, ambiguity intolerance, etc.</span></em></p><p> </p><p><em><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">Low frustration tolerance (LFT) </span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><strong>Trait-like emotional distress</strong></span><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"> (i.e., high levels of 11 </span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><strong>depression or anxiety) is a marker of vulnerability to psychopathology. Irrational beliefs tend 12 to be higher when trait emotional distress is elevated (</strong></span><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">e.g., Deffenbacher et al., 1986; Chang, 13 1997).</span></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><strong>Low frustration tolerance is a secondary irrational belief,</strong></span><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"> and research indicates that it is </span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><strong>positively associated with aggressive expression of anger</strong></span><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"> (<a href="https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2016.01423/full#B97" target="_blank">Martin and Dahlen, 2004</a>), reduced anger control (<a href="https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2016.01423/full#B105" target="_blank">Moller and Van der Merwe, 1997</a>),</span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><strong> poor social adjustment </strong></span><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">(<a href="https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2016.01423/full#B151" target="_blank">Watson et al., 1998</a>), </span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><strong>addictive behaviors</strong></span><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"> (<a href="https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2016.01423/full#B86" target="_blank">Ko et al., 2008</a>), </span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><strong>anxiety, depression, procrastination, and dysfunctional affect</strong></span><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"> (<a href="https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2016.01423/full#B73" target="_blank">Harrington, 2005b</a>, <a href="https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2016.01423/full#B74" target="_blank">2006</a>). </span></em> </p><p><a href="https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2016.01423/full" target="_blank">Frontiers | Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy (REBT), Irrational and Rational Beliefs, and the Mental Health of Athletes</a></p><p></p><p><em><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">Comfort (and low frustration tolerance): I can’t stand hassles in my life. Approval (and low frustration tolerance): When people who I want to like me disapprove of me or reject me, I can’t bear their disliking me.</span></em></p><p>[URL unfurl="true"]https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/2158244013484156?icid=int.sj-abstract.similar-articles.2[/URL]</p><p></p><p><em><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">Across these studies, </span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><strong>low frustration tolerance was associated with increased physical child abuse potential, greater use of parent-child aggression in discipline encounters, dysfunctional disciplinary style, support for physical discipline use and physical discipline escalation, and increased heart rate. </strong></span></em></p><p>[URL unfurl="true"]https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25796290/[/URL]</p><p></p><p><em><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">CHILD ABUSE WAS SIMULTANEOUSLY FOUND TO BE AN IMPULSIVE, UNCONTROLLABLE ACT AND A SYSTEMATIC PATTERN OF PUNISHMENT AND COERCION TO MODIFY THE CHILD'S BEHAVIOR. GENERALLY, THE RESULTS OF THE INVESTIGATION DESCRIBED IN THIS BOOK DEPICT THE CHILD ABUSER AS A HIGHLY DEPENDENT INDIVIDUAL</span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><strong> WITH A LOW FRUSTRATION TOLERANCE.</strong></span></em></p><p><strong>[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/dependency-frustration-tolerance-and-impulse-control-child-abusers#:~:text=CHILD%20ABUSE%20WAS%20SIMULTANEOUSLY%20FOUND,WITH%20A%20LOW%20FRUSTRATION%20TOLERANCE.[/URL]</strong></p><p></p><p>These exactly relates to how parents who use physical punishment are strict minded, intolerance for breaking rules and misbehaviour, a feeling entitlement and a fixation on achievement and frustration with misbehaviour to the point of being stimulated to act harshlt against the child. </p><p></p><p>This feeds into the other 2 core beliefs of Awefulizing and Global Evaluations of self or self downing. These I think are more about the distress, the low self worth and esteem which often comes with depression and anxiety. Beliefs about self efficacy and locus of control where abusive parents seem to have an external locus of control. </p><p></p><p>That is why so many of the articles I linked were talking about low self esteem, low self efficacy and distress. This is what feeds into the unreal perceptions and expectations, the threat which in turn feeds into the Demandingness and Low Frustration Tolerance as these are the end result where the parent is trying to control the world, the child, the partner and others to managed that unreal perceieved threat or unfairness or expectation. </p><p></p><p><em><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">Awfulizing (and achievement): If I do not perform well at things which are important, it will be a catastrophe.</span></em></p><p><em><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">Global rating (and Approval): If important people dislike me, it goes to show what a worthless person I am.</span></em></p><p>[URL unfurl="true"]https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/2158244013484156?icid=int.sj-abstract.similar-articles.2[/URL]</p><p></p><p>The idea of the PRIBS is for a clinical scale to measure the core irrational beliefs through measures on how the parent thinks in regards to volnurability for irrational beliefs. So its not the specific beliefs but the mindset that is open to irrational beliefs aboyt parenting. </p><p></p><p>In that sense we have a clinical measure to identify parents who are volnurable to irrational thinking and beliefs with clear patterns of thinking and schemas that relate to controlling thinking and parenting. In other words if a parent does not display the patterns of thinking, schemas and unreal expectations about self, others and the world then they will not be open to irrational beliefs like rigid roles and abusive and controlling hierarchies. </p><p></p><p>So in that sense the belief itself doesn't tell us about which type of mindset or physhe is volnurable to abuse and control but rather the thinking patterns and schemas that can be identified using the belief scales like the PRIBS and PIBS.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="stevevw, post: 77652956, member: 342064"] I am pointing out that your saying a hierarchy itself is abusive and controlling. I am saying with these examples they they are not in themselves and it takes an abusing person to make them so. But because people can also make hierarchies benefical and they can naturally form as a result of societies natural inclination to categorize people based on competencies they are not abusive themselves. But because they can possibly become problematic means they are themselves not problematic and only become that way when someone exploits them. We went through the rigid roles of household settings. A trad marriage has rigid roles but is not controllong in an abusive way. In fact those who advocate them say they are beneficial. You missed the point. We only know these beliefs because of the abuse. But beforehand we didn't. There was no way to tell which beliefs were negative and led to abuse. So theres no way to tell which beliefs will lead to abuse in the future until they actually are linked to abuse. Its always hindsight. But we can tell the risk factors because we understand how humans think and behave and that certain thinking and psychological disorders do lead to bad behaviour through the science. Except if someone has a belief in hierarchies which is often subconscious and natural we cannot say that belief is hierarchies is abusive and controlling. Beliefs are subjective. Like I said at present there are beliefs being promoted in society that have been shown to be abusive and yet society or at least those in positions of influence advocate them as being good. Its only grounding beliefs in what actually happens and not speculating which beliefs are negative and abusive that we can know for sure which beliefs are abusive and controlling in a negative way. I think this language and narrative is damaging in itself as you keep conflating that hierarchies themselves are part of the problem. Rather you should be saying that a hierarchy 'becomes' abusive in the hands of the wrong person. Just like a car becomes a weapon and harms others in the hands of the wrong person. But the car itself in not abusive. No we havn't. The same beliefs in hierarchies and rigid roles can be shown to not be abusive. It is partly why they abuse and your dismissing this like its completely irrelevant. Its like telling a sunstance abuser that their past experiences have nothing to do with their addiction and its because they have the wrong belief. All and I repeat all the evidence states that the negative experiences of a person and the distress and other factors or determinants linked to abuse are exactly why parents abuse. So your dismissing the facts just like dimissing the facts that show that past experiences and psychological and emotional distress are linked to other negative behaviour like substance abuse, gang violence, DV, criminality, anti social behaviour. Somehow because of your pre concieved ideas you make inappropriate parental behaviour immune to these natural human cognitions and behaviours. Once again the facts and not ideology. Just look at all the evidence I have linked showing that parental negative experiences and the resulting distress is linked to the vast majority of abuse. And before you use the logical fallacy that its not the cause, there is no single cause and but rather its the combination of risk factors minus protective factors. Well your the one who is saying that a parents experiences are irrelevant to their behaviour and situations. Most of why people stop abusing is due to practical support and not particularly about beliefs. For example when a distress parents with unreal beliefs and expectations who is behaving inappropriately towards their child recieves therapy the abuse eventually stops. As your link mentions psychiatrict patients who recieved treatment became less of a abuse risk. As my links showed when disadvantaged parents are given resources and support the abuse deminishes. You can't change beliefs and attitudes unless you change the psychological mindset that has been cultivated to believe in abuse and violence. Just as the previous reply is saying that its addressing the psychological state of the person which changes beliefs and attitudes and not addressing the belief itself. Addressing the beliefs and attituides means addressing the psychological mindset of the person because the belief is caused by the psychological mindset which has been cultivated through personal experiences. So your advocating repentence for society to overcome abuse. Repentence is often about being reshaped into a new person, the renewing of the mind. Most of the time this is a long process. You don't tell an addict to repent as they will run away. But you can get them to admit they have a problem and that their life has become unmanagable. Then its about therapy, looking at self, the negative experiences that underly the behaviour. Its addressing these that the hold beliefs and behaviour have over people that will broken. In other words negative beliefs that lead to negative behaviour have a lot of negative experiences and the resulting negative impacts on thinking and emotions behind them. Like I said you have to earn your beliefs, they don't come easy. You have to be primed to believe in them. Yes and to do that means lifting the lid on whats going on inside the person, their negative thinking, feelings and perceptions. What happened that they come to a point where they are acting so destructive and not constructive. Then you have just wiped out all child organisations that help and protect children and support parents as well as every other research and approach that uses the risk and protective factors for every other social behavioural problem regarding health and wellbeing. What is this so called "a lot" that is not related to abuse. Give me some examples. Saying the PRIBS doesn't measure abusive beliefs and attitudes of parents is like saying a an anxiety scale doesn't measure the most important anxiety disorders. I just gave it to you. What you need to do is explain why say 'Demandingness' which is the core beliefs behind ideas like rigid roles and abusive controlling hierarchies is not a measure for those beliefs. What is it that makes roles rigid. Is it the role itself or the thinking behind the idea. Its the thinking, the cognitive ddistortions and mindset. This is exactly what the PRIBS especially Damandingness is measuring, the rigid and controlling mindset and it describes that mindset of rigid and controlling in its thinking and beliefs about the world. It takes a person with this mindset to come up with the idea of using roles and hierarchies to abuse and control. No all you did was link a pretty picture of a Venn diagram with no link to what it was referring to. Therefore the pretty Venn means nothing but a couple of overlapping circles. You then made up some stuff about the PRIBS not covering abusive and controlling parental beliefs also without a shred of evidence or reasoning explaining how exactly this is the case. [COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)]Yes they do in varying degrees. If you look at the mindset, the thinking and perceptions behind the other core beliefs we can find that aspects depending on the individual and their personality type and traits as well as the particular experiences which will determine how parents see themselves, others and the world these other core beliefs relate exactly to why parents behave inappropriately and abuse their children.[/COLOR] For example the core belief of Low Frustration Tolerance has been linked to abusive and controlling parenting ie [I][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)]Among components of Low frustration tolerance (LFT) are [/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][B]emotion intolerance, behavior intolerance, discomfort intolerance, rules intolerance, entitlement[/B][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)] (intolerance of unfairness and frustrated gratification), [/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][B]achievement intolerance [/B][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)](intolerance of frustrated achievement goals), uncertainty intolerance, ambiguity intolerance, etc.[/COLOR][/I] [I][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)]Low frustration tolerance (LFT) [/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][B]Trait-like emotional distress[/B][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)] (i.e., high levels of 11 [/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][B]depression or anxiety) is a marker of vulnerability to psychopathology. Irrational beliefs tend 12 to be higher when trait emotional distress is elevated ([/B][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)]e.g., Deffenbacher et al., 1986; Chang, 13 1997).[/COLOR] [COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][B]Low frustration tolerance is a secondary irrational belief,[/B][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)] and research indicates that it is [/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][B]positively associated with aggressive expression of anger[/B][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)] ([URL='https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2016.01423/full#B97']Martin and Dahlen, 2004[/URL]), reduced anger control ([URL='https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2016.01423/full#B105']Moller and Van der Merwe, 1997[/URL]),[/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][B] poor social adjustment [/B][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)]([URL='https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2016.01423/full#B151']Watson et al., 1998[/URL]), [/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][B]addictive behaviors[/B][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)] ([URL='https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2016.01423/full#B86']Ko et al., 2008[/URL]), [/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][B]anxiety, depression, procrastination, and dysfunctional affect[/B][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)] ([URL='https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2016.01423/full#B73']Harrington, 2005b[/URL], [URL='https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2016.01423/full#B74']2006[/URL]). [/COLOR][/I] [URL="https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2016.01423/full"]Frontiers | Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy (REBT), Irrational and Rational Beliefs, and the Mental Health of Athletes[/URL] [I][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)]Comfort (and low frustration tolerance): I can’t stand hassles in my life. Approval (and low frustration tolerance): When people who I want to like me disapprove of me or reject me, I can’t bear their disliking me.[/COLOR][/I] [URL unfurl="true"]https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/2158244013484156?icid=int.sj-abstract.similar-articles.2[/URL] [I][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)]Across these studies, [/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][B]low frustration tolerance was associated with increased physical child abuse potential, greater use of parent-child aggression in discipline encounters, dysfunctional disciplinary style, support for physical discipline use and physical discipline escalation, and increased heart rate. [/B][/COLOR][/I] [URL unfurl="true"]https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25796290/[/URL] [I][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)]CHILD ABUSE WAS SIMULTANEOUSLY FOUND TO BE AN IMPULSIVE, UNCONTROLLABLE ACT AND A SYSTEMATIC PATTERN OF PUNISHMENT AND COERCION TO MODIFY THE CHILD'S BEHAVIOR. GENERALLY, THE RESULTS OF THE INVESTIGATION DESCRIBED IN THIS BOOK DEPICT THE CHILD ABUSER AS A HIGHLY DEPENDENT INDIVIDUAL[/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][B] WITH A LOW FRUSTRATION TOLERANCE.[/B][/COLOR][/I] [B][URL unfurl="true"]https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/dependency-frustration-tolerance-and-impulse-control-child-abusers#:~:text=CHILD%20ABUSE%20WAS%20SIMULTANEOUSLY%20FOUND,WITH%20A%20LOW%20FRUSTRATION%20TOLERANCE.[/URL][/B] These exactly relates to how parents who use physical punishment are strict minded, intolerance for breaking rules and misbehaviour, a feeling entitlement and a fixation on achievement and frustration with misbehaviour to the point of being stimulated to act harshlt against the child. This feeds into the other 2 core beliefs of Awefulizing and Global Evaluations of self or self downing. These I think are more about the distress, the low self worth and esteem which often comes with depression and anxiety. Beliefs about self efficacy and locus of control where abusive parents seem to have an external locus of control. That is why so many of the articles I linked were talking about low self esteem, low self efficacy and distress. This is what feeds into the unreal perceptions and expectations, the threat which in turn feeds into the Demandingness and Low Frustration Tolerance as these are the end result where the parent is trying to control the world, the child, the partner and others to managed that unreal perceieved threat or unfairness or expectation. [I][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)]Awfulizing (and achievement): If I do not perform well at things which are important, it will be a catastrophe. Global rating (and Approval): If important people dislike me, it goes to show what a worthless person I am.[/COLOR][/I] [URL unfurl="true"]https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/2158244013484156?icid=int.sj-abstract.similar-articles.2[/URL] The idea of the PRIBS is for a clinical scale to measure the core irrational beliefs through measures on how the parent thinks in regards to volnurability for irrational beliefs. So its not the specific beliefs but the mindset that is open to irrational beliefs aboyt parenting. In that sense we have a clinical measure to identify parents who are volnurable to irrational thinking and beliefs with clear patterns of thinking and schemas that relate to controlling thinking and parenting. In other words if a parent does not display the patterns of thinking, schemas and unreal expectations about self, others and the world then they will not be open to irrational beliefs like rigid roles and abusive and controlling hierarchies. So in that sense the belief itself doesn't tell us about which type of mindset or physhe is volnurable to abuse and control but rather the thinking patterns and schemas that can be identified using the belief scales like the PRIBS and PIBS. [/QUOTE]
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