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Ethics & Morality
Kid's Corporal Punishment - a Risk to Mental Health
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<blockquote data-quote="stevevw" data-source="post: 77645389" data-attributes="member: 342064"><p>How can you get copying and pasting exactly what the article says wrong. Its there is plain english. When it says X is a risk factor, it means exactly that. When it says distress is linked to abuse it means exactly that "<em>communicating in a straightforward way"</em></p><p></p><p>Its a proven fact that distress in the form of depression and anxiety are the biggest problems for modern society. Its also a proven fact that distress is linked to abuse. Remember it is not 'I who want to throw this in' but what the actual evidence shows. I just showed that with the last articles. Let me remind you of the APA's definition </p><p></p><p><em><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">the negative stress response, often involving </span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><strong>negative affect</strong></span> <span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><strong>and physiological reactivity: generating</strong></span><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"> physical and </span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><strong>psychological maladaptation. </strong></span><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">This generally is the intended meaning of the word <a href="https://dictionary.apa.org/stress" target="_blank">stress</a>.</span></em></p><p></p><p>Do you honestly think depression is excluded as a <em><strong><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)">psychological maladaptation</span></strong></em><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0)"> by the APA. </span></p><p></p><p><strong>Associations Between Depression in Parents and Parenting, Child Health, and Child Psychological Functioning</strong></p><p><em><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><strong>Depression is significantly associated with more hostile, negative parenting</strong></span><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">, and with more disengaged (withdrawn) parenting.</span></em></p><p><em><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"></span></em></p><p><em><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">Families with one or more depressed parents often</span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><strong> have additional factors that generally impose risk for children</strong></span><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">, such as substance use disorders, poverty, exposure to violence, minority status, cultural and linguistic isolation, and marital conflict, </span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><strong>which interfere with good parenting qualities and healthy child rearing environments.</strong></span><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"> These </span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><strong>additional risk factors</strong></span><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"> are sometimes found to </span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><strong>work independently and at other times found to be additive or interactive </strong></span><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">with the effects of depression in parents.</span></em></p><p>[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK215128/[/URL]</p><p></p><p>I am not sure what you mean.</p><p></p><p>Thats like saying because lung cancer can happen to smokers and non smokers then smoking is not linked to lung cancer. Your logic doesn't follow, its a non sequitor. </p><p></p><p>Saying that people handle stress does not negate that some parents cannot handle stress and act inappropriately towards their child. Once again a non-sequitor. </p><p></p><p>Your not seeing the forest through the trees. The specific beliefs such as "rigid roles and controlling hierarchies" are the symptoms of a controlling mindset. A controlling mindset sees the world in rigid and controlling ways not just with roles or hierarchies. Roles and hierarchies are just two examples of the methods that a controlling mind will use to control and abuse.</p><p></p><p>So its the Mindset we need to understand that wants to make the world about rigidity and controlling others. That is exactly what the articles are explaining.</p><p></p><p>Your article was good in this respect as it listed the different determinants that cause the unreal and inappropriate attitudes and beliefs of abusive parents such as distress. </p><p></p><p>How could you have seen the evidence against when you have not read them. Your own article supported the determinants (risk factors) that contribute to unreal and inappropriate beliefs and attitudes that lead to abuse. So how could you not see it when your own article states it. </p><p></p><p>You keep making this strawman that we need to show each risk factor as a single cause when its the combination and accumulative effect that leads to child abuse. </p><p></p><p>But your own article supports the Risk factors (determinants) linked to abuse which say exactly the same thing as my articles. So your own link contradicts your unsupported claims that these risk factors are not linked to abuse. </p><p></p><p>Once again your creating a strawman by insisting that I need to show that each risj factor on their own is a cause when its the combination and accumulative effect that leads to child abuse. </p><p></p><p>Once again your own article supports the link between distress and stress and beliefs and attitudes that underpin abuse. My articles say the exact same thing so this makes good science that several independent sources are saying the same thing. </p><p></p><p>The distress is what causes the unreal perceptions about the world. The unreal or inappropriate perceptions about the world and towards the child are what cause the belief in harsh and abusive dicipline and accordingly as a response and reaction to control the situation in line with the unreal perceptions. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Several of the articles have explained this but you either refuse to see it or do not understand how belief is cultivated in humans.</p><p></p><p>Oh man not this again. I have already refuted that. Your doubling down now. </p><p></p><p>There is no single cause of abuse and violence and all aspects are correlations where some are more prominaent than others and where the mix is never any specific set of factors as each individual and individual circumstances and conditions are different. But some combination are almost always involved.</p><p></p><p>Your creating a strawman and false representation of the problem by making out that abuse should be understood as a single cause when its a combination of factors where none are singly a cause but together cause abuse.. </p><p></p><p>You missed what I said. I said if the chain of associated factors has been proven with other social issues regarding belief and behaviour then why is it different for abuse and violent behaviour. </p><p></p><p>Why are you denying the same mechanisms and processes involved in how humans think and behave when it comes to negative social behaviour that harms themselves and others and society. When you deny the same processes to abuse your are denying the way humans think and behave. </p><p></p><p>But you were the one who made such a claim that the article did not refer to abuse or harsh parenting as a result of the added stress.</p><p></p><p>Once again a non- sequitor, strawman and misrepresentation. Just like distress just because some parents handle burnout doesn't mean some cannot. </p><p></p><p>Like I said abuse happens as the result of a complex mix of risk factors and also lack of protective factors. When someone has the risk factors and doesn't abuse then its the presence of protective factors that prevents this. Thats the difference.</p><p></p><p>For example the parent may have risk factors but has emotional resilence and insight she gained from a good relationship she experienced. Or someone intervened to prevent things getting worse. </p><p></p><p>As opposed to not having any emotional resilence, support network, isolated ect. Abuse happens when the Risk factors outweight the Protective factors.</p><p></p><p><em><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">A Protective Factor is something that </span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><strong>buffers, mediates or moderates the influence of risk factors – it reduces the likelihood of the problems that the risk factors would ‘normally’ predict, increasing positive outcomes.</strong></span></em></p><p>[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.aracy.org.au/publications-resources/command/download_file/id/341/filename/Fact_sheet_1_-_Risk_and_protective_factors.pdf[/URL]</p><p></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0)"><strong>Identifying and Ranking Risk and Protective Factors: A Brief Guide</strong></span></p><p><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"><em>If a child is exposed to a</em></span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><em><strong> higher number of risk factors than protective factors, they may be at greater risk</strong></em></span><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"><em> of experiencing a negative outcome(s), yet if the protective factors equal or outweigh the risk factors, they may exhibit well-being even in the face of adversity. </em></span></p><p></p><p><em><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">When screening for risk factors, it is also important to identify protective factors in the young person’s life . Research has shown that</span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><strong> protective factors can act as a buffer to the negative effects of risk factors</strong></span></em></p><p>[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/kidsfamilies/youth/Documents/youth-health-resource-kit/youth-health-resource-kit-sect-3-chap-3.pdf[/URL]</p><p><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"><em></em></span></p><p><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"><em>Since </em></span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><em><strong>prevention work </strong></em></span><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"><em>is characterized by intervening before the occurrence of an undesirable outcome, it is essential that </em></span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><em><strong>preventive efforts be grounded in an understanding of the risk factors </strong></em></span><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"><em>present at each level of the social-ecology of the child that may lead to a harmful outcome(s),</em></span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><em><strong> as well as the protective factors that can help to outweigh them</strong></em></span><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"><em>. From this standpoint </em></span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><em><strong>it is critical to identify and assess risk and protective factors </strong></em></span><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"><em>at all levels of the socio-ecological framework.</em></span></p><p>[URL unfurl="true"]https://alliancecpha.org/sites/default/files/technical/attachments/identifying_risk_and_protective_factors_a_brief_guide.pdf[/URL]</p><p></p><p><em><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">Poor maternal and paternal mental health has been associated with poor outcomes in children but not all children of parents who have mental health problems are at risk. </span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><strong>A number of biological dispositions, sociocultural contexts and psychological processes are likely to interact and can serve as protective factors or risk factors </strong></span><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">for both parents' and children's mental health.</span></em></p><p><a href="https://www.mentalhealth.org.uk/explore-mental-health/statistics/family-parenting-statistics#:~:text=But%20this%20is%20not%20always,mental%20health%20problems%20are%20parents.&text=The%20most%20common%20mental%20health,traumatic%20stress%20disorder%20(PTSD" target="_blank">Family and parenting: statistics</a>). </p><p></p><p>Hum, this is the chicken and the egg thing again. I am not sure and I don't think anyone is. We are still working it out. Its like nature and nurture, its not so simple how humans work and most of the time there is not any 'Single process" going on that causes any human thinking, belief or behaviour. </p><p></p><p>As I mentioned we know that distress is linked to beliefs. People don't believe in negative and unreal suff for nothing. They have to earn their beliefs and be primed for them. </p><p></p><p>I can't make you believe that a food you hate is tasty. You can't believe why some people don't like your favorite song or movie because you believe its the best. We earn our beliefs through experiences. If you were forced to eat the food you hate because of circumstances gradually you may come to change your mind and like that food and believe its ok. </p><p></p><p>The same with unreal beliefs like abuse and controlling others. A person has to come to relate and even like control and violence against others. They cannot believe in something they don't like and relate to and have a need to take on. They feel empowered, it fullfills something in them. </p><p></p><p>Because ultimately abuse is negative and destructive the experiences that produce such destructive beliefs has to come from negative experiences or be percieved by the parent as negative and a threat that they have a need to control through abuse and violence. </p><p></p><p>Therefore negative beliefs in using abuse and violence against others has to be earned and taken on by the abuser which means their disposition, their mindset and beliefs have been cultivated by their life experiences and perceptions of negative effects.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="stevevw, post: 77645389, member: 342064"] How can you get copying and pasting exactly what the article says wrong. Its there is plain english. When it says X is a risk factor, it means exactly that. When it says distress is linked to abuse it means exactly that "[I]communicating in a straightforward way"[/I] Its a proven fact that distress in the form of depression and anxiety are the biggest problems for modern society. Its also a proven fact that distress is linked to abuse. Remember it is not 'I who want to throw this in' but what the actual evidence shows. I just showed that with the last articles. Let me remind you of the APA's definition [I][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)]the negative stress response, often involving [/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][B]negative affect[/B][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)] [/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][B]and physiological reactivity: generating[/B][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)] physical and [/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][B]psychological maladaptation. [/B][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)]This generally is the intended meaning of the word [URL='https://dictionary.apa.org/stress']stress[/URL].[/COLOR][/I] Do you honestly think depression is excluded as a[COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)] [/COLOR][I][B][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)]psychological maladaptation[/COLOR][/B][/I][COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)] by the APA. [/COLOR] [B]Associations Between Depression in Parents and Parenting, Child Health, and Child Psychological Functioning[/B] [I][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][B]Depression is significantly associated with more hostile, negative parenting[/B][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)], and with more disengaged (withdrawn) parenting. Families with one or more depressed parents often[/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][B] have additional factors that generally impose risk for children[/B][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)], such as substance use disorders, poverty, exposure to violence, minority status, cultural and linguistic isolation, and marital conflict, [/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][B]which interfere with good parenting qualities and healthy child rearing environments.[/B][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)] These [/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][B]additional risk factors[/B][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)] are sometimes found to [/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][B]work independently and at other times found to be additive or interactive [/B][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)]with the effects of depression in parents.[/COLOR][/I] [URL unfurl="true"]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK215128/[/URL] I am not sure what you mean. Thats like saying because lung cancer can happen to smokers and non smokers then smoking is not linked to lung cancer. Your logic doesn't follow, its a non sequitor. Saying that people handle stress does not negate that some parents cannot handle stress and act inappropriately towards their child. Once again a non-sequitor. Your not seeing the forest through the trees. The specific beliefs such as "rigid roles and controlling hierarchies" are the symptoms of a controlling mindset. A controlling mindset sees the world in rigid and controlling ways not just with roles or hierarchies. Roles and hierarchies are just two examples of the methods that a controlling mind will use to control and abuse. So its the Mindset we need to understand that wants to make the world about rigidity and controlling others. That is exactly what the articles are explaining. Your article was good in this respect as it listed the different determinants that cause the unreal and inappropriate attitudes and beliefs of abusive parents such as distress. How could you have seen the evidence against when you have not read them. Your own article supported the determinants (risk factors) that contribute to unreal and inappropriate beliefs and attitudes that lead to abuse. So how could you not see it when your own article states it. You keep making this strawman that we need to show each risk factor as a single cause when its the combination and accumulative effect that leads to child abuse. But your own article supports the Risk factors (determinants) linked to abuse which say exactly the same thing as my articles. So your own link contradicts your unsupported claims that these risk factors are not linked to abuse. Once again your creating a strawman by insisting that I need to show that each risj factor on their own is a cause when its the combination and accumulative effect that leads to child abuse. Once again your own article supports the link between distress and stress and beliefs and attitudes that underpin abuse. My articles say the exact same thing so this makes good science that several independent sources are saying the same thing. The distress is what causes the unreal perceptions about the world. The unreal or inappropriate perceptions about the world and towards the child are what cause the belief in harsh and abusive dicipline and accordingly as a response and reaction to control the situation in line with the unreal perceptions. Several of the articles have explained this but you either refuse to see it or do not understand how belief is cultivated in humans. Oh man not this again. I have already refuted that. Your doubling down now. There is no single cause of abuse and violence and all aspects are correlations where some are more prominaent than others and where the mix is never any specific set of factors as each individual and individual circumstances and conditions are different. But some combination are almost always involved. Your creating a strawman and false representation of the problem by making out that abuse should be understood as a single cause when its a combination of factors where none are singly a cause but together cause abuse.. You missed what I said. I said if the chain of associated factors has been proven with other social issues regarding belief and behaviour then why is it different for abuse and violent behaviour. Why are you denying the same mechanisms and processes involved in how humans think and behave when it comes to negative social behaviour that harms themselves and others and society. When you deny the same processes to abuse your are denying the way humans think and behave. But you were the one who made such a claim that the article did not refer to abuse or harsh parenting as a result of the added stress. Once again a non- sequitor, strawman and misrepresentation. Just like distress just because some parents handle burnout doesn't mean some cannot. Like I said abuse happens as the result of a complex mix of risk factors and also lack of protective factors. When someone has the risk factors and doesn't abuse then its the presence of protective factors that prevents this. Thats the difference. For example the parent may have risk factors but has emotional resilence and insight she gained from a good relationship she experienced. Or someone intervened to prevent things getting worse. As opposed to not having any emotional resilence, support network, isolated ect. Abuse happens when the Risk factors outweight the Protective factors. [I][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)]A Protective Factor is something that [/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][B]buffers, mediates or moderates the influence of risk factors – it reduces the likelihood of the problems that the risk factors would ‘normally’ predict, increasing positive outcomes.[/B][/COLOR][/I] [URL unfurl="true"]https://www.aracy.org.au/publications-resources/command/download_file/id/341/filename/Fact_sheet_1_-_Risk_and_protective_factors.pdf[/URL] [COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)][B]Identifying and Ranking Risk and Protective Factors: A Brief Guide[/B][/COLOR] [COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)][I]If a child is exposed to a[/I][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][I][B] higher number of risk factors than protective factors, they may be at greater risk[/B][/I][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)][I] of experiencing a negative outcome(s), yet if the protective factors equal or outweigh the risk factors, they may exhibit well-being even in the face of adversity. [/I][/COLOR] [I][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)]When screening for risk factors, it is also important to identify protective factors in the young person’s life . Research has shown that[/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][B] protective factors can act as a buffer to the negative effects of risk factors[/B][/COLOR][/I] [URL unfurl="true"]https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/kidsfamilies/youth/Documents/youth-health-resource-kit/youth-health-resource-kit-sect-3-chap-3.pdf[/URL] [COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)][I] Since [/I][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][I][B]prevention work [/B][/I][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)][I]is characterized by intervening before the occurrence of an undesirable outcome, it is essential that [/I][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][I][B]preventive efforts be grounded in an understanding of the risk factors [/B][/I][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)][I]present at each level of the social-ecology of the child that may lead to a harmful outcome(s),[/I][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][I][B] as well as the protective factors that can help to outweigh them[/B][/I][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)][I]. From this standpoint [/I][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][I][B]it is critical to identify and assess risk and protective factors [/B][/I][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)][I]at all levels of the socio-ecological framework.[/I][/COLOR] [URL unfurl="true"]https://alliancecpha.org/sites/default/files/technical/attachments/identifying_risk_and_protective_factors_a_brief_guide.pdf[/URL] [I][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)]Poor maternal and paternal mental health has been associated with poor outcomes in children but not all children of parents who have mental health problems are at risk. [/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][B]A number of biological dispositions, sociocultural contexts and psychological processes are likely to interact and can serve as protective factors or risk factors [/B][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)]for both parents' and children's mental health.[/COLOR][/I] [URL="https://www.mentalhealth.org.uk/explore-mental-health/statistics/family-parenting-statistics#:~:text=But%20this%20is%20not%20always,mental%20health%20problems%20are%20parents.&text=The%20most%20common%20mental%20health,traumatic%20stress%20disorder%20(PTSD"]Family and parenting: statistics[/URL]). Hum, this is the chicken and the egg thing again. I am not sure and I don't think anyone is. We are still working it out. Its like nature and nurture, its not so simple how humans work and most of the time there is not any 'Single process" going on that causes any human thinking, belief or behaviour. As I mentioned we know that distress is linked to beliefs. People don't believe in negative and unreal suff for nothing. They have to earn their beliefs and be primed for them. I can't make you believe that a food you hate is tasty. You can't believe why some people don't like your favorite song or movie because you believe its the best. We earn our beliefs through experiences. If you were forced to eat the food you hate because of circumstances gradually you may come to change your mind and like that food and believe its ok. The same with unreal beliefs like abuse and controlling others. A person has to come to relate and even like control and violence against others. They cannot believe in something they don't like and relate to and have a need to take on. They feel empowered, it fullfills something in them. Because ultimately abuse is negative and destructive the experiences that produce such destructive beliefs has to come from negative experiences or be percieved by the parent as negative and a threat that they have a need to control through abuse and violence. Therefore negative beliefs in using abuse and violence against others has to be earned and taken on by the abuser which means their disposition, their mindset and beliefs have been cultivated by their life experiences and perceptions of negative effects. [/QUOTE]
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