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Discussion and Debate
Discussion and Debate
Ethics & Morality
Free will and determinism
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<blockquote data-quote="Bradskii" data-source="post: 77679118" data-attributes="member: 412388"><p>Which is nothing more than making a choice. That in itself doesn't qualify as free will.</p><p></p><p>Naturally. Remove the brain and you won't be conscious any more. Seems to be a link there somewhere...</p><p></p><p>What you can do is ask them why they made the choice they did. Was it random or was it for a particular reason? Was it what they actually desired? Based on all the factors that they were aware of (and most they are not)?</p><p></p><p>So things that determine our actions of which we are not aware do not necessarily determine our actions. Can you explain how we overcome influences that we don't know about?</p><p></p><p>So what are you making decisions <em>on</em>? On what basis, for what reason do you decide to do A instead of B?</p><p></p><p>Again, what are you basing your choices <em>on</em>? Look, it's not being argued that every single condition is directly responsible for making a decision. It seems that if think that if you can overcome some desire or compulsion that that exhibits free will. It doesn't. Quite often you have desires that contradict each other. I want a cigarette but I want to be healthy. I want to finish this book but I need to make dinner. You need to make a choice. You <em>always </em>need to make a choice. But that doesn't equate to free will. I mean, if it was that simple then there wouldn't have been arguments about this from antiquity onwards.</p><p>Plato: There's no free will.</p><p>Cephalus: But I just made a conscious decision not to have another glass of wine.</p><p>Plato: Darn it! So there IS free will...</p><p></p><p>That would have come as a surprise to Darwin, whose book title included the phrase ...'<em>and the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life'. </em>Likewise Spencer would have been confused as he coined the term<em> 'Survival of the fittest'.</em></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Bradskii, post: 77679118, member: 412388"] Which is nothing more than making a choice. That in itself doesn't qualify as free will. Naturally. Remove the brain and you won't be conscious any more. Seems to be a link there somewhere... What you can do is ask them why they made the choice they did. Was it random or was it for a particular reason? Was it what they actually desired? Based on all the factors that they were aware of (and most they are not)? So things that determine our actions of which we are not aware do not necessarily determine our actions. Can you explain how we overcome influences that we don't know about? So what are you making decisions [I]on[/I]? On what basis, for what reason do you decide to do A instead of B? Again, what are you basing your choices [I]on[/I]? Look, it's not being argued that every single condition is directly responsible for making a decision. It seems that if think that if you can overcome some desire or compulsion that that exhibits free will. It doesn't. Quite often you have desires that contradict each other. I want a cigarette but I want to be healthy. I want to finish this book but I need to make dinner. You need to make a choice. You [I]always [/I]need to make a choice. But that doesn't equate to free will. I mean, if it was that simple then there wouldn't have been arguments about this from antiquity onwards. Plato: There's no free will. Cephalus: But I just made a conscious decision not to have another glass of wine. Plato: Darn it! So there IS free will... That would have come as a surprise to Darwin, whose book title included the phrase ...'[I]and the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life'. [/I]Likewise Spencer would have been confused as he coined the term[I] 'Survival of the fittest'.[/I] [/QUOTE]
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