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Struggles by Non-Christians
Can a skeptic on the fence have a personal encounter with God?
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<blockquote data-quote="2PhiloVoid" data-source="post: 77438386" data-attributes="member: 167101"><p>And why would this be terrible news? I'd think that most of us living in the real world don't particularly sit well with the fact that God is a Hidden God. But from what I see in the video you've cited, the focus isn't hiddenness but "massive suffering."</p><p></p><p>As an Existnetialist, Theodicy isn't the "route" that I travel like so many Christian Apologists do (or attempt to do). So, if there are masses of individuals who are craving a specific theodicy that will serve as the Silver Bullet to kill the Werewolf of Suffering, I will not offer that form of either epistemic or ontological or axiological approach as a remedy to disbelief, or will I attempt to offer such an answer.</p><p></p><p> (And yes, I'm familiar with Alex O'Conner, as I am with many, many professional atheists ...................................................... )</p><p></p><p>What specific "version"? It's not a "version" or a denomination. It's simply a wider scope of engagement with the Questions we all have. But I understand how people feel since I'm there too ---- we are all a part of a human world clammoring for Answers with a CAPITAL "A," and I know very well that my more horizontal epistemic approach (existential I like to say) won't address much of our vertically induced mental angst. We want to be able to reach straight up and somehow percieve that God is reaching down. Well, that's not exactly what we get.</p><p></p><p>However, what I can do (what most of us can do) is challenge the Skeptical Ire and offer forth an Invitation. That's all any of us really gets within the whole of our lives as we traverse into the future (despite what a number of more, shall we way, charismatic type Christians will claim to the contrary [i.e. they do so by insisting you "should" be able to achieve a "St. Thomas" engagement with God if you ............ just..........................have......................enough..........................faith].)</p><p></p><p>No, I'm saying that I've engaged the Skeptical Ire on it's own grounds as well as the Charismatic Ignus Fatuss and find both of them epistemically wanting. I also find the other extreme of doxastic expectancy</p><p></p><p>And <u><em><strong>THAT</strong></em></u>, my fried, is exactly what I'm referring to .............................................................................. of course, I'd be lying to you if I didn't say that such an epistemic endeavor won't take time to muddle through intellectually or experientially.</p><p></p><p>As for doxastic voluntarism, I think that this trope only really becomes a problem when the whole idea of voluntarism (and involutarism) aren't parsed out analytically but are instead assumed to be conceptually clear and distinct concepts. Usually the resistence I see among people comes by what of their own suffering being a de-motivator to approach Christianity from other conceptual angles. No, we all want bread, and by golly bread had better be given .............................................. And when it's not, most of just epistemically slump.</p><p></p><p>Anyway, there's a reason I've listed the books that I list in my personal section here on CF.</p><p></p><p></p><p>See? Here's what I'd suggest if you feel like you're a "skeptic on the fence": Stop placing your central epistemic valuation solely upon positive personal credence FOR belief as a supreme value without also, <u><em><strong>at the same time</strong></em></u>, challenging your already self-defined epistemic expectations; that is, work on allowing for the creation of cogntive space by which to permit and keep open the epistemic channels of human inquiry in relation to Christianity.</p><p></p><p>I mean honestly, it's way too easy to pick up a bible and see it as a Swiss Cheese. Anyone can do that!!! But not everyone can fully engage the Skeptical and Atheistic Scrutiny Machine and loosen its bolts or find a fracture in its epistemic processes.</p><p></p><p></p><p>And if at the end of the day we find, despite all of our best efforts, that what is <u>really</u> keeping us from looking to Jesus is the suffering we ourselves experience in the world, then that is what it is. And at least I can understand and sympathize with that since it's an honest answer.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="2PhiloVoid, post: 77438386, member: 167101"] And why would this be terrible news? I'd think that most of us living in the real world don't particularly sit well with the fact that God is a Hidden God. But from what I see in the video you've cited, the focus isn't hiddenness but "massive suffering." As an Existnetialist, Theodicy isn't the "route" that I travel like so many Christian Apologists do (or attempt to do). So, if there are masses of individuals who are craving a specific theodicy that will serve as the Silver Bullet to kill the Werewolf of Suffering, I will not offer that form of either epistemic or ontological or axiological approach as a remedy to disbelief, or will I attempt to offer such an answer. (And yes, I'm familiar with Alex O'Conner, as I am with many, many professional atheists ...................................................... ) What specific "version"? It's not a "version" or a denomination. It's simply a wider scope of engagement with the Questions we all have. But I understand how people feel since I'm there too ---- we are all a part of a human world clammoring for Answers with a CAPITAL "A," and I know very well that my more horizontal epistemic approach (existential I like to say) won't address much of our vertically induced mental angst. We want to be able to reach straight up and somehow percieve that God is reaching down. Well, that's not exactly what we get. However, what I can do (what most of us can do) is challenge the Skeptical Ire and offer forth an Invitation. That's all any of us really gets within the whole of our lives as we traverse into the future (despite what a number of more, shall we way, charismatic type Christians will claim to the contrary [i.e. they do so by insisting you "should" be able to achieve a "St. Thomas" engagement with God if you ............ just..........................have......................enough..........................faith].) No, I'm saying that I've engaged the Skeptical Ire on it's own grounds as well as the Charismatic Ignus Fatuss and find both of them epistemically wanting. I also find the other extreme of doxastic expectancy And [U][I][B]THAT[/B][/I][/U], my fried, is exactly what I'm referring to .............................................................................. of course, I'd be lying to you if I didn't say that such an epistemic endeavor won't take time to muddle through intellectually or experientially. As for doxastic voluntarism, I think that this trope only really becomes a problem when the whole idea of voluntarism (and involutarism) aren't parsed out analytically but are instead assumed to be conceptually clear and distinct concepts. Usually the resistence I see among people comes by what of their own suffering being a de-motivator to approach Christianity from other conceptual angles. No, we all want bread, and by golly bread had better be given .............................................. And when it's not, most of just epistemically slump. Anyway, there's a reason I've listed the books that I list in my personal section here on CF. See? Here's what I'd suggest if you feel like you're a "skeptic on the fence": Stop placing your central epistemic valuation solely upon positive personal credence FOR belief as a supreme value without also, [U][I][B]at the same time[/B][/I][/U], challenging your already self-defined epistemic expectations; that is, work on allowing for the creation of cogntive space by which to permit and keep open the epistemic channels of human inquiry in relation to Christianity. I mean honestly, it's way too easy to pick up a bible and see it as a Swiss Cheese. Anyone can do that!!! But not everyone can fully engage the Skeptical and Atheistic Scrutiny Machine and loosen its bolts or find a fracture in its epistemic processes. And if at the end of the day we find, despite all of our best efforts, that what is [U]really[/U] keeping us from looking to Jesus is the suffering we ourselves experience in the world, then that is what it is. And at least I can understand and sympathize with that since it's an honest answer. [/QUOTE]
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