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subordination is a result of sin. Servanthood is the model of Christ and the result of the cross.

it does not come across like that.

ok, that explains Why? you are trying to get a comprehensive view.

what is your obsession with this issue? you are overly obsessed with this? Why? What are you trying to get at? What are you trying to accomplish?

no, a slave is inferior in power, authority & rights, you are saying women are inferior in power, authority & rights what dose this mean. yes subordination is slavery, someone rules over you and makes decisions about your life without your consent. They do not necessarily have your...

So you admit that women were slaves from the beginning.

so you admit that women are to obey not just God but males as well or they are in rebellion to God?

I'm glad somebody understands what I'm saying

hey someone gets it. Clare is arguing domination and submission without regard to good or evil. No good person would ever want another person to be submissive without it being for the other's well-being. It is about representing God properly, The male-female relationship was designed from the...

The problem with your view is that as you have explained it there is NO WISDOM, and it is unbiblical. Wisdom requires understanding and purpose. and there is no purpose for what you are doing other than to be a good slave. Sorry, God is not that arbitrary. The creation order in the Garden...

submission is something we do willingly, If a person has the well-being of the other in mind it is easy to do accept, but if you do not have the well-being of the other in mind then it is not easy. I am not of the view that submission is the goal, submission is the byproduct of trust and trust...

it plays to my point, the creation order is the proper representation of God on earth. Paul is arguing that they are misrepresenting God, it is that same argument that goes in favor of women's ordination. Paul's answer is the right answer if temple prostitution were in play, you are...

notice the condition, as one submits to Christ. "Christ came to serve not to be served" Paul is not here, but some human being claiming to know exactly what Paul meant absent any context is here, trying to convince people that a local situation is universal.

rebellion. Temple prostitution, a woman in Ephesus in a religious role would have been considered a prostitute. That would have given the church a bad reputation. BTW temple prostitution is the basis of 3rd wave feminism. Not good for women either. that sounds great until you realize he is...

I am not looking for a long discussion on this issue again. It seems pointless. My only concern is that a biblical view of Women as pastors is presented. There is a view and it is not a rebellion.

a human being is not Christ. no they disagree with your interpretation and application of God's wisdom.

that is true, but you are saying that the woman was under man's dominion, before God's dominion. In other words. He is her master, a part from God. In other words, she was a slave from the beginning and existed only to serve and please her husband. Her dreams, desires, feelings needs, and...

we have had many discussions on this. It is not as cut and dry as traditionalists want to make it. It takes very bad hermeneutics to arrive at that view. One has to ignore evidence that contradicts that to make it universal, one has to ignore the work of Christ in removing the curse and the...

this issue in order.

that depends on their reason for doing it. as a social trend or Fad, NO. As an acknowledgment of the spiritual gifting, maybe, but there are other reasons for not joining.