If we are all sinners (and we are), how can we get into Heaven where there is "no impure thing"?

Zaha Torte

Jesus Christ is the Eternal God
May 6, 2024
549
167
39
Not Hispanic or Latino
✟12,401.00
Country
United States
Faith
Latter-Day Saint
Marital Status
Married
In Revelation it says that no impure thing will enter Heaven.

Well, all humans are impure. So virtually all humans are headed for Hell.

In a sense, every single human who ever lived or ever will live is on his/her way to Hell, pretty much from birth (or age 7...). Yet some people stop that head-long process toward eternal doom.

The thing is, how does one do that?

You have the world, the flesh and the devil fighting against you every step of the way.

The last one listed is the worst. That so and so has been around "forever" and knows all the tricks in the book. And bad news: he is more intelligent than any human who ever lived, save Jesus (who is God).

Abandon all hope.. (is what things look like) :(

Yet some say all we have to do is accept Jesus... whatever that may mean (entirely). Um... no, that is not what the Word says. Jesus said that Few find the narrow way to Heaven. Mt 7:21... Lk 13:24 (etc) and that not all who say Lord, Lord will enter
The Lord Jesus Christ Atoned for everything that He created - and He created everything.

This promised Atonement required Him to enter into our Fallen world just like us - although He was sired by God the Father Himself through some process involving the Holy Spirit.

This unique paternity gave Him "life in Himself" - He had complete control over His ability to die meaning that He could have remained on the cross to this very day had He wanted to - or if it had been required of Him - without dying.

He had power to choose when to "give up the ghost" - this was very important to the Plan of God and to His Atonement.

While mortal - He experienced the same frailties as we do - hunger, thirst, pain, fatigue, weakness - but unlike us - He never once committed any sin.

This leads us to Gethsemane - a place He often frequented - and He happened to be there at the appointed time when it was determined that He would begin to suffer the penalties of all of our sins.

Every violation of Divine Law (i.e. "sin") had an accompanying punishment affixed to it - just as adherence to Divine Law had an accompanying reward or blessing.

The Lord Jesus Christ never once violated the Law - but He had agreed to Atone for Man - so He suffered all the penalties for our sins - which suffering caused Himself - the greatness of all Beings - to tremble from pain - to fall on His face - to plead with the Father that the task be removed (yet He submitted to His will) - and He bled from every pore.

This suffering lasted many hours.

Then again - after He was betrayed, arrested, humiliated, imprisoned and given a mock trial - He was scourged, had a crown of thorns placed on His head and was placed on the cross.

At that time, it was required that He should suffer even more of our penalties - yet this time no angel came to comfort Him - for He cried out "Father, why hast thou forsaken me?" - because for the first time in His existence the Spirit of God withdrew from Him and He suffered alone the very pains of Hell - descending below all things.

Finally - when He had suffered for us all - when He had taken upon Himself all our penalties - took all our debts upon Him so to speak - He declared that it was finished, and He gave up the ghost.

For this purpose, He had an Immortal Father - because any other mortal Being would have immediately died in Gethsemane had they begun to suffer the penalties for our sins - so great was the pain.

He willingly suffered all things from the beginning - remained in the body - until all the penalties had been suffered.

After He rose again - thus conquering death - He promised that we would all conquer death as well and that now that He had suffered all of our penalties - He could now offer us forgiveness - all we had to do was keep His commandments and rely on Him.

This is how we can become clean and enter Heaven - for when we rely on Him and are obedient, we take His name upon us - so when we approach the gates of Heaven those who look upon us will see Him - His image will be engraved upon our countenances - and we will be recognized as pure and sinless.
 
Upvote 0

Zaha Torte

Jesus Christ is the Eternal God
May 6, 2024
549
167
39
Not Hispanic or Latino
✟12,401.00
Country
United States
Faith
Latter-Day Saint
Marital Status
Married
Does that mean you are mormon ?
No one is a "Mormon".

Mormon was an ancient prophet/historian that abridged a thousand years of his people's history into a single work titled the Book of Mormon.

Those who hated the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints gave its members the designation of "Mormon".

Referring to a Latter-day Saint as a "Mormon" would be like referring to a Christian as a "Peter" or a "Paul".

I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I am a Latter-day Saint or LDS for short.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: CoreyD
Upvote 0

Zaha Torte

Jesus Christ is the Eternal God
May 6, 2024
549
167
39
Not Hispanic or Latino
✟12,401.00
Country
United States
Faith
Latter-Day Saint
Marital Status
Married
So then a pagan short and simply;

not a follower of Jesus, not immersed in Jesus' Name, NOT A CHRISTIAN. (except by twisted meaning in the world)
Why do you believe that?
 
Upvote 0

Estrid

Well-Known Member
Feb 10, 2021
9,906
3,282
39
Hong Kong
✟155,080.00
Country
Hong Kong
Faith
Skeptic
Marital Status
In Relationship
The Lord Jesus Christ Atoned for everything that He created - and He created everything.

This promised Atonement required Him to enter into our Fallen world just like us - although He was sired by God the Father Himself through some process involving the Holy Spirit.

This unique paternity gave Him "life in Himself" - He had complete control over His ability to die meaning that He could have remained on the cross to this very day had He wanted to - or if it had been required of Him - without dying.

He had power to choose when to "give up the ghost" - this was very important to the Plan of God and to His Atonement.

While mortal - He experienced the same frailties as we do - hunger, thirst, pain, fatigue, weakness - but unlike us - He never once committed any sin.

This leads us to Gethsemane - a place He often frequented - and He happened to be there at the appointed time when it was determined that He would begin to suffer the penalties of all of our sins.

Every violation of Divine Law (i.e. "sin") had an accompanying punishment affixed to it - just as adherence to Divine Law had an accompanying reward or blessing.

The Lord Jesus Christ never once violated the Law - but He had agreed to Atone for Man - so He suffered all the penalties for our sins - which suffering caused Himself - the greatness of all Beings - to tremble from pain - to fall on His face - to plead with the Father that the task be removed (yet He submitted to His will) - and He bled from every pore.

This suffering lasted many hours.

Then again - after He was betrayed, arrested, humiliated, imprisoned and given a mock trial - He was scourged, had a crown of thorns placed on His head and was placed on the cross.

At that time, it was required that He should suffer even more of our penalties - yet this time no angel came to comfort Him - for He cried out "Father, why hast thou forsaken me?" - because for the first time in His existence the Spirit of God withdrew from Him and He suffered alone the very pains of Hell - descending below all things.

Finally - when He had suffered for us all - when He had taken upon Himself all our penalties - took all our debts upon Him so to speak - He declared that it was finished, and He gave up the ghost.

For this purpose, He had an Immortal Father - because any other mortal Being would have immediately died in Gethsemane had they begun to suffer the penalties for our sins - so great was the pain.

He willingly suffered all things from the beginning - remained in the body - until all the penalties had been suffered.

After He rose again - thus conquering death - He promised that we would all conquer death as well and that now that He had suffered all of our penalties - He could now offer us forgiveness - all we had to do was keep His commandments and rely on Him.

This is how we can become clean and enter Heaven - for when we rely on Him and are obedient, we take His name upon us - so when we approach the gates of Heaven those who look upon us will see Him - His image will be engraved upon our countenances - and we will be recognized as pure and sinless.
What a strange story.

Why do you believe it?
 
Upvote 0

Zaha Torte

Jesus Christ is the Eternal God
May 6, 2024
549
167
39
Not Hispanic or Latino
✟12,401.00
Country
United States
Faith
Latter-Day Saint
Marital Status
Married
What a strange story.

Why do you believe it?
Through sincere study - pondering in humility - and the witness of the Holy Spirit that was given in response to prayer.

If we pray to the Father in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ - exercising faith in Him - He can manifest the truth of all things to us through the power of the Holy Spirit.
 
Upvote 0

Estrid

Well-Known Member
Feb 10, 2021
9,906
3,282
39
Hong Kong
✟155,080.00
Country
Hong Kong
Faith
Skeptic
Marital Status
In Relationship
Through sincere study - pondering in humility - and the witness of the Holy Spirit that was given in response to prayer.

If we pray to the Father in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ - exercising faith in Him - He can manifest the truth of all things to us through the power of the Holy Spirit.
Ok tnx.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

John Mullally

Well-Known Member
Aug 5, 2020
2,451
853
Califormia
✟137,879.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
No one is a "Mormon".

Mormon was an ancient prophet/historian that abridged a thousand years of his people's history into a single work titled the Book of Mormon.

Those who hated the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints gave its members the designation of "Mormon".

Referring to a Latter-day Saint as a "Mormon" would be like referring to a Christian as a "Peter" or a "Paul".

I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I am a Latter-day Saint or LDS for short.
Latter-day Saint, LDS, and Mormon are interchangable. Lets not dodge.
 
Upvote 0

Estrid

Well-Known Member
Feb 10, 2021
9,906
3,282
39
Hong Kong
✟155,080.00
Country
Hong Kong
Faith
Skeptic
Marital Status
In Relationship
No one is a "Mormon".

Mormon was an ancient prophet/historian that abridged a thousand years of his people's history into a single work titled the Book of Mormon.

Those who hated the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints gave its members the designation of "Mormon".

Referring to a Latter-day Saint as a "Mormon" would be like referring to a Christian as a "Peter" or a "Paul".

I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I am a Latter-day Saint or LDS for short.
The English language is flexible.
Not long ago " awesome" meant, well,
awe inspiring. Now, in America, it means
" thank you".

You guys are "Mormons".

And the rest of us don't believe a dude
amed "Mormon" ever existed.
 
Upvote 0

Zaha Torte

Jesus Christ is the Eternal God
May 6, 2024
549
167
39
Not Hispanic or Latino
✟12,401.00
Country
United States
Faith
Latter-Day Saint
Marital Status
Married
Latter-day Saint, LDS, and Mormon are interchangable. Lets not dodge.
They actually are not.

How was my clarification a "dodge" if I still answered the question?
 
Upvote 0

Zaha Torte

Jesus Christ is the Eternal God
May 6, 2024
549
167
39
Not Hispanic or Latino
✟12,401.00
Country
United States
Faith
Latter-Day Saint
Marital Status
Married
The English language is flexible.
Not long ago " awesome" meant, well,
awe inspiring. Now, in America, it means
" thank you".

You guys are "Mormons".

And the rest of us don't believe a dude
amed "Mormon" ever existed.
You don't have the authority to dictate what we refer to ourselves as.

There are many people who do not believe that a "dude" named Jesus Christ ever existed - does that now mean we can tell all Christians that they are not what they claim to be?

I understand that in our delusional world where a "woman" can be anything someone wants it to mean - you could make this argument - but I exist in reality.

Whether or not you believe that Mormon ever existed does not matter - because my Church was not named after him - it was named after the Lord Jesus Christ.

People who hated the LDS Church labelled them "Mormons" because they did not want them to be associated with the Lord Jesus Christ.

I would encourage you to read the Book of Mormon to see for yourself if he ever existed - rather than rely on the testimony of others.

Sincerely study the Book of Mormon - pray about it in humility - having faith in Christ - and I know that the Holy Spirit will testify of the truthfulness of that book to you.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: CoreyD
Upvote 0

B Griffin

Well-Known Member
Sep 4, 2011
926
226
Georgia
✟51,060.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
In Revelation it says that no impure thing will enter Heaven.

Well, all humans are impure. So virtually all humans are headed for Hell.
"No impure thing will enter heaven" plus "all humans are impure" does not equal "virtually all humans are headed to Hell".
many of them focus only on God's grace and not on their own sinfulness, which usually means they are not going to work on their sinfulness
So, you are saying the answer is to not focus on God's grace, but we must focus only on our sinfulness and try our best to eliminate it?
, maybe they won't even allow themselves to see it(?) and so, it remains... their sinfulness remains in them... This is called NOT letting Jesus have your sins..
Have you never read about what Jesus did?

5 Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says,​
“SACRIFICE AND OFFERING YOU HAVE NOT DESIRED,​
BUT A BODY YOU HAVE PREPARED FOR ME;​
6 IN WHOLE BURNT OFFERINGS AND sacrifices FOR SIN YOU HAVE TAKEN NO PLEASURE.​
7 “THEN I SAID, ‘BEHOLD, I HAVE COME
(IN THE SCROLL OF THE BOOK IT IS WRITTEN OF ME)​
TO DO YOUR WILL, O GOD.’ ”​
10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.​
11 Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins;​
12 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD,​
13 waiting from that time onward UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET.​
14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.​
New American Standard Bible: 1995 update (Heb 10:5-7; 10-14). (1995). The Lockman Foundation.​
so i just dont see how that works. Even after giving Jesus your sins, you are still sinful and will likely fall into the sin again if you are not careful
Jesus' offering of His own body for our sins is what makes those who come to God through Him forever clean (i.e., completely sanctified). That's how it works. And it is the only way for humans to be with Jesus in Heaven after they die.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Estrid

Well-Known Member
Feb 10, 2021
9,906
3,282
39
Hong Kong
✟155,080.00
Country
Hong Kong
Faith
Skeptic
Marital Status
In Relationship
You don't have the authority to dictate what we refer to ourselves as.

There are many people who do not believe that a "dude" named Jesus Christ ever existed - does that now mean we can tell all Christians that they are not what they claim to be?

I understand that in our delusional world where a "woman" can be anything someone wants it to mean - you could make this argument - but I exist in reality.

Whether or not you believe that Mormon ever existed does not matter - because my Church was not named after him - it was named after the Lord Jesus Christ.

People who hated the LDS Church labelled them "Mormons" because they did not want them to be associated with the Lord Jesus Christ.

I would encourage you to read the Book of Mormon to see for yourself if he ever existed - rather than rely on the testimony of others.

Sincerely study the Book of Mormon - pray about it in humility - having faith in Christ - and I know that the Holy Spirit will testify of the truthfulness of that book to you.
Oh, I've read it. And " Joseph Smith Tells His
own Story".

Your thing about " authority" is vaguely amusing.

You can call yourselves any name you please with no
objections from me.


It was you, you who has neither authority nor capacity trying
to impose
on others by what name we can call your religion.
 
Upvote 0

John Mullally

Well-Known Member
Aug 5, 2020
2,451
853
Califormia
✟137,879.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
They actually are not.

How was my clarification a "dodge" if I still answered the question.
Come clean. I understand that what were termed Mormons now prefer to be called LDS - just admit that and this is done.
 
Upvote 0

Zaha Torte

Jesus Christ is the Eternal God
May 6, 2024
549
167
39
Not Hispanic or Latino
✟12,401.00
Country
United States
Faith
Latter-Day Saint
Marital Status
Married
Oh, I've read it. And " Joseph Smith Tells His
own Story".

Your thing about " authority" is vaguely amusing.

You can call yourselves any name you please with no
objections from me.


It was you, you who has neither authority nor capacity trying
to impose
on others by what name we can call your religion.
I do not believe you have read anything you claim to have read.

I also doubt that you would use this same argument if the subject were about a particular racial group and a certain unmentionable word.

Or do you believe that they also have no authority or capacity to dictate what others may call them?

Do you feel as though you are free to call them whatever you wish - even that unmentionable word?

I will report you if you continue to refer to me and my religion as "Mormon".
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Zaha Torte

Jesus Christ is the Eternal God
May 6, 2024
549
167
39
Not Hispanic or Latino
✟12,401.00
Country
United States
Faith
Latter-Day Saint
Marital Status
Married
Come clean. I understand that what were termed Mormons now prefer to be called LDS - just admit that and this is done.
The name of the Church has always been the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints - that is what it was called since it was founded on April 6th, 1830.

The members of the LDS Church were termed "Mormon" by those who hated them.

That term was the only recognizable term for quite a long time - but that was never the name of the LDS Church - and it is only recently that the members of the LDS Church have made a concerted effort to be called by our rightful name.

You don't have to agree with me - you'd be ignoring the facts if you did - but I will report you or anyone who keeps referring to me by the term "Mormon" after I have informed them of the history of that term and my preference.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Estrid

Well-Known Member
Feb 10, 2021
9,906
3,282
39
Hong Kong
✟155,080.00
Country
Hong Kong
Faith
Skeptic
Marital Status
In Relationship
I do not believe you have read anything you claim to have read.

I also doubt that you would use this same argument if the subject were about a particular racial group and a certain unmentionable word.

Or do you believe that they also have no authority or capacity to dictate what others may call them?

Do you feel as though you are free to call them whatever you wish - even that unmentionable word?

I will report you if you continue to refer to me and my religion as "Mormon".
The Mormons I met in Hong Kong were very nice
people. I found their beliefs weird, but then, we have our
dragons and things.

Its rude and totally unjustified to call me a liar and hypocrite. And then you threaten me.

You've altered for the worse my
impressilon of mormons.

"Mormon" btw is in the Oxford dictionary as the religion
founded by J. Smith, and I find them more authoritative than any internet rando.

Go ahead and report now. Be sure to include
mention of your false and invidious allegations,
and, your hviing threatened me.
 
Upvote 0