Is Shame a virtue?

Aussie Pete said:

Children run around naked quite happily up until a certain age. We had trouble keeping our young son clothed. He's strip off as soon as he could, which was no fun when we were going out. Once he became self conscious, that ended. We did not tell him that going naked was wrong, just inconvenient. Flaunting nakedness is rebellion against God, who clothed Adam and Eve as soon as they left Eden.

"And you must not go up to My altar on steps, lest your nakedness be exposed on it." Exodus 20:26

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Aussie Pete said:

Adam and Eve were good but incomplete. They chose the wrong source to be completed.

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Aussie Pete said:

The whole world runs by the principle of good and evil. Look where it has got us.

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fhansen said:

I agree with this.
But not sure what this is getting at:

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Aussie Pete said:

One of the posters said that it was OK to live by the principle of good and evil. My point is that the world is a desperate mess because of it. God forbade eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil for a reason. Man was not designed to live that way. That principle allows man to be independent of God. We were created in God's image to be His children, in relationship and fellowship, not independent of Him.

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MyChainsAreGone said:

I have always defined shame this way.

The belief that one is...

• Unaccepted and unacceptable.
• Unloved and unlovable.
• Unworthy and worthless.

Looks like Brené and I are pretty much on the same page.

• Flawed = unworthy and worthless.
• Unworthy of love = I'm loved and unlovable.
• I'm worthy of belonging = unaccepted and unacceptable.

Thanks for that resource

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HTacianas said:

Rather than shame, a better word is modesty. Even though the bible does use the term shame as analogous to the guilt of sin, see Jude 1:13, Rev 3:18, 16:15. And yes, there are parts of the body that should be concealed based on modesty. Traditionally both men and women have covered themselves in public from neck to ankle out of modesty. Exposing the body can induce lust in others. The Didascalia Apostolorum contains commandments for men and women regarding manner of dress, and they are pretty much the same for both sexes. Though it has historically been women who are more likely to dress immodestly in order to attract attention to themselves.

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MyChainsAreGone said:

"Have you no shame?!?"​

Once upon a time, such a question might have been asked of a young man or a young woman if they dared to wear clothing that was judged to be too "revealing" or "sensual."

The question, of course, is loaded with a very significant assumption... that a young person SHOULD have some shame about their bodies... or least as it relates to allowing some parts of their bodies to be seen by others.

It has been asserted by some here at CF that the exposure of our bodies in the wrong context should be considered shameful, and therefore avoided.

For the purpose of this post and the responses that I hope it engenders, let's allow that assertion to be a given.

I want to ask people who believe that to be true to expand on the understanding and provide more tangible details about what that means.

So here are some specific questions that I'd like to ask on the topic:

1. Is the shame attached to specific body parts? If so, which parts? Is it different for men and women?
2. Do you believe that God endorses or is pleased with that shame?
3. Do humans have body parts that are displeasing to God?
4. What does God think about our bodies?
5. What attitude does God want US to have about our bodies?

GROUND RULES FOR THIS TOPIC...

• I do not intend to respond to anyone who answers to rebuff or refute. Your responses will stand on their own.
  • Caveat... I may offer follow-up questions to seek more clarity in stated perspectives.
• Others may respond if they want.
• You don't have to answer all of the questions. Pick and choose any or all, or skip the questions and just articulate your own perspective on the topic of body shame.
• Make only statements that clearly articulate what YOU believe... Do not assert what you think OTHERS believe in order to shoot it down.
• Do not disparage me for raising the topic or asking genuine questions... if anyone does so, it will be assumed that they don't actually have any answers to my questions.
• If you believe the questions to be slanted, misguided, or dishonest, you may explain why you think so and articulate how you believe the questions should be asked and/or ask questions of your own for others to answer instead (I will not be answering them, so don't address them to me)
• Do not demean ANYONE with your comments, questions, or responses.

If you're not agreeable to these "ground rules," please do not post anything.

The purpose of this post is to allow you to articulate your own perspective about the topic. State it as clearly as possible, and defend it as fully as you think it needs.

Go.

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1. Is the shame attached to specific body parts? If so, which parts? Is it different for men and women? Yes and no. Yes because we have made it so culturally. But in different cultures, contexts and time periods different body part were deemed shameful. So that brings up the question, if such shame is culturally based, is it objectively justified?
2. Do you believe that God endorses or is pleased with that shame? No, when Adam and Eve tried to hide themselves from God, one reason for doing so was over shame of being naked, and it was snot God who told them they were naked or to feel shame over that fact.
3. Do humans have body parts that are displeasing to God? No. Now he can be displeased with how we use them, as with anything, but not body parts that he himself created.
4. What does God think about our bodies? They were very God, now we live in a sinful world and our bodies are imperfect, but that is related to disease and deformation, not in a shame sense.
5. What attitude does God want US to have about our bodies? A positive attitude (sure we should strive to be healthy but not feel shame over our bodies just because)