Virginia school board votes to restore Confederate names to two schools

Hans Blaster

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Union vs United?
"Union" is this odd label that gets applied to the armed forces of the United States (US Army, US Navy, USMC, state troops) under the command of the President of the United States. It seems to be nothing more a euphemism to paper over the fact that the "confederates" were fighting the US.
 
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Laodicean60

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"Union" is this odd label that gets applied to the armed forces of the United States (US Army, US Navy, USMC, state troops) under the command of the President of the United States. It seems to be nothing more a euphemism to paper over the fact that the "confederates" were fighting the US.
I stand corrected, the United States Army kept its racist policies until WW2.
 
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Hans Blaster

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What do you mean by "anti-USA" and why do you accuse Lee and Jackson by such?
Lee and Jackson went to war against the United States. It is not any simpler than that.
Could it not be argued that the military leaders of the North were just as responsible for killing a lot of people?
Military leaders on all sides in any war are responsible for killing lots of people. (And it is not "the North" it is "The United States of America".) It was only the confederate generals that made war against the USA.
What "delusional ideology" are you referring to?
Secessionism, slavery, etc.
 
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Chesterton

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I oppose what the Nazis did because I wish the Nazis would have just let themselves be overthrown.
Okay, me too, but I have to think that you oppose it on moral grounds, and not on the grounds that the coup plotters were unsuccessful.
It's not a question of "right" or "wrong". The Nazis did what most countries do after a failed coup - they got rid of the perpetrators.
If you read the exchanges between me and GreatLakes you'd probably understand why I'm pressing the moral aspect, as regards the OP.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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What do you mean by "anti-USA" and why do you accuse Lee and Jackson by such?

Could it not be argued that the military leaders of the North were just as responsible for killing a lot of people?

What "delusional ideology" are you referring to?
As far the delusional ideology:


From the VP of the Confederacy...and I quote:
Our new government['s]...foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests upon the great truth, that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery—subordination to the superior race—is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.[2][3]

Notice, it doesn't say "one of our side ideas", or "in addition to the other stuff", or "one of the many facets of our beliefs"

It refers to to government's cornerstone and says their government and founding ideology was "based on" "the great truth, that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery—subordination to the superior race—is his natural and normal condition"

I don't think we need to delve in any further to accurately identify that as delusional ideology do we?

I don't think that it takes a lot of brain power to conclude that someone holding the ideology of "Black people were evolved (or created by God if, if that's what you prefer) to serve White people, is a delusional person, correct?

As far as the Oklahoma City Bomber, little known fact... McVeigh went to Waco during the standoff and handed out anti-government literature and was sympathetic to their cause.

As far as Lee & Jackson being anti-USA... accepting a leadership position in an organization who's rebelling against the USA doesn't really require further explanation does it?
 
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RocksInMyHead

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If you read the exchanges between me and GreatLakes you'd probably understand why I'm pressing the moral aspect, as regards the OP.
I understand well enough that you're pressing the moral aspect. The why though? Not so much.

The reality is that failed rebels generally face major consequences (usually death). Whether or not their cause was just - whether or not killing them was morally right - is irrelevant to that reality. Life isn't a movie; sometimes the good guys lose.
 
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Zaha Torte

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Lee and Jackson went to war against the United States. It is not any simpler than that.
History and people are never that simple.

Am I "anti-USA" when I disagree with US leaders and the Federal Government?
Military leaders on all sides in any war are responsible for killing lots of people. (And it is not "the North" it is "The United States of America".)
The Civil War was fought among the Northern and Southern States. The Union and the Confederacy.
It was only the confederate generals that made war against the USA.
Yes - after their attempt to secede was resisted by Buchanan and Lincoln took office.

They had the audacity to believe that they could withdraw from a Union that did not value them and their interests.
Secessionism, slavery, etc.
How are these "delusional ideologies"?
 
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Hans Blaster

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History and people are never that simple.

Am I "anti-USA" when I disagree with US leaders and the Federal Government?
Did you go to war against the United States? If you did, that would be a problem.
The Civil War was fought among the Northern and Southern States. The Union and the Confederacy.
Nope. The United States of America went to war with the so-call "Confederate States of America".
Yes - after their attempt to secede was resisted by Buchanan and Lincoln took office.

They had the audacity to believe that they could withdraw from a Union that did not value them and their interests.
Now you venturing into neo-confederate apologetics. (I didn't pick this avatar for nothing.)
How are these "delusional ideologies"?
The Constitution offers no mechanism for unilateral secession. Others have already discussed the slavery apologetics.
 
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Chesterton

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I understand well enough that you're pressing the moral aspect. The why though? Not so much.
I think my posts have been short, simple and straightforward. I'm not sure what else I can say without just repeating myself.
 
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Chesterton

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The Constitution offers no mechanism for unilateral secession.
True, but you have to admit the Declaration of Independence, which many around the world have deemed one of the greatest political statements in history, does provide the moral legitimacy for it.
 
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Pommer

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True, but you have to admit the Declaration of Independence, which many around the world have deemed one of the greatest political statements in history, does provide the moral legitimacy for it.
The DoI is fine political philosophy, for sure, but had the British won, it’d’ve been burned.
 
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IceJad

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Nearly four years ago, the Shenandoah County School Board ... moved to rename Stonewall Jackson High School and Ashby Lee Elementary School. The schools had been named after Confederate Gens. Thomas “Stonewall” Jackson, Robert E. Lee and Turner Ashby.

That 2020 move was part of a resolution condemning racism and affirming the district’s “commitment to an inclusive school environment,” according to school board documents.

The schools have been called Mountain View High School and Honey Run Elementary School since July 2021, according to board documents.

But the composition of the school board is different now than it was during the 2020 decision – all six seats are held by different people.

The 5-1 vote came after hours of public comment during a meeting that began Thursday evening from people speaking on both sides of the issue. Vice Chairman Kyle L. Gutshall was the sole opposing vote.

“I ask that when you cast your vote, you remember that Stonewall Jackson and others fighting on the side of the Confederacy in this area were intent on protecting the land, the buildings and the lives of those under attack,” said a woman urging the board to restore the Confederate names. “Preservation is the focus of those wishing to restore the names.”

Sarah Kohrs, a mother of two students attending schools in the district, is among several parents and residents who said ahead of the vote that they were opposed to restoring the Confederacy-tied names and were frustrated it was being considered.

“It’s very frustrating to know that here we are four years after that, and we still have a small portion of the community that just refuses to move on,” Kohrs told CNN.

There is a reason for the statues and names to be preserved. To ensure that there is reconciliation and restoration of the nation. You should all take a lesson from General Grant. Grant ordered his troops to stop all celebration, saying the "war is over; the rebels are our countrymen again."

Self righteous people will think annihilation of one side is the only way unity can be achieve. Reality rang and she wants critical thinking back. Stroking old hatred is a good way to start a new civil war. Guess if more people actually take lessons in history there wouldn't be so much self righteous virtue signaling.
 
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FireDragon76

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No historical individuals who attacked our country shouldn't be named. You know that the North had slaves before and after the Civil War. It was a war of two groups of like-minded Americans fighting for their way of life and their rights. As a modern man, I believe it to be wrong but you have to understand that slavery was part of socioeconomics since man could capture other men to do work for them. It didn't start in America.

It's not "North vs. South", it's "The United States vs. the Confederate States of America". The Confederacy seceded from the United States, and went to war with it.
 
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FireDragon76

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There is a reason for the statues and names to be preserved. To ensure that there is reconciliation and restoration of the nation. You should all take a lesson from General Grant. Grant ordered his troops to stop all celebration, saying the "war is over; the rebels are our countrymen again."

Self righteous people will think annihilation of one side is the only way unity can be achieve. Reality rang and she wants critical thinking back. Stroking old hatred is a good way to start a new civil war. Guess if more people actually take lessons in history there wouldn't be so much self righteous virtue signaling.

I actually had ancestors that fought in the Civil War... in the Confederacy in the western campaigns.

Remembering people like Stonewall Jackson as mythic heroes that need to have their names plastered everywhere is precisely what is keeping this country from moving on.
 
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Laodicean60

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Remembering people like Stonewall Jackson as heroes that need to have their names plastered everywhere is precisely what is keeping this country from moving on.
What keeps this country from moving forward is people looking backward.
 
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FireDragon76

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What keeps this country from moving forward is people looking backward.

People move forward because they choose to move forward.

Robert E. Lee himself was opposed to memorialization of the Confederacy. The valorization of the "Lost Cause" has poisoned American society for generations to this day.
 
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