Virginia school board votes to restore Confederate names to two schools

Laodicean60 said:

When I see Robert E Lee named on a school I think about the General.

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What was General Lee fighting for?

Laodicean60 said:

You can spin the flawed past but I don't buy it. We treated Negros badly before during and after the civil war.

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Yes, but only one of the factions made it the "cornerstone" of their identity.

That's of course in reference to the "cornerstone speech" given by the vice president of the confederacy. Look it up if you're unfamiliar with it, but the entire basis of the confederacy was "preserving" what they felt was "the moral truth" that "the negro was inferior to the white man".

Despite the fact that Black people weren't treated all that great in the north either at the time, the USA didn't make "black inferiority" part of their national identity and founding documents, the confederacy did.

Laodicean60 said:

I can tell you it isn't Racism for most it's Southern pride I owned one (you placed me in a bad group in your mind) and if you live in the North you might not understand.
Have you heard the song Sweet Home Alabama "A southern man don't need him (northerner Niel Young) around...." It's tribalism because the flag represented southern states. I didn't buy that flag because I wanted to put Negro in chains. I had a lot of black friends. Don't get me wrong there are a few that think differently. There are racists in all colors.

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You can think Neil young is a tool without having to fly a confederate flag to do so. That's not a good excuse.

there's really no other symbol that can be used to represent the "southern way of life" apart from an 1800's relic that has a direct attachment to an entity that specifically wanted preserve white superiority?

it should also be noted that even Lynyrd Skynyrd (the people who performed sweet home alabama) stopped using the flag

(and met some backlash for their decision to quit using it)

This apparently didn’t sit well with some of the band’s fans back in Dixie, who have taken to the comments section with pained vitriol.

“Good luck with your next release ‘Sweet home Massachusetts.’ I am sure it will climb the charts with a bullet in Yankee-land,” said one. “This isn’t the real Lynyrd Skynyrd anyway. They should have taken a name like ‘Obama’s Politically Correct Sell Your Soul Make Believe Impostors’ or something,” opined another.

Laodicean60 said:

That is a long limb in my eyes I won't speculate on his motives. My brain isn't skewed that way.

Maybe it's the uneducated youth manipulated by the media. The youth hasn't seen what Boomer has. Have you heard Morgan Freeman talk about Race I agree with him, he truly experienced racism. Like him, I believe we've come a long way. If you look for the boogie man everywhere you'll find him that's the way our brains work. Freeman said paraphrase: "If you talk about racism it exists...making it a bigger issue than it needs to be." He comes from a day when there were only handful of blacks in Hollywood. He said in another interview that Holywood today has all kinds of people accepted.
I've spent enough time on this subject and I want to argue lol about something else. We'll have to disagree.

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I don't think we can blame manipulation for this one.

It's pretty clear what the confederacy was about, and it wasn't "preserving southern heritage"...sorry.

Unless you expect me to believe that of all of the symbolism and iconography out there, the only one that can accurately convey "we happen to like the southern way of life and not the way they do things up in Boston" just so happens to be one that had a direct association to an entity that said the the cornerstone of their new country was the "moral truth" that "the negro was inferior" and "who's proper place was servitude"?


C'mon

I am much more likely to understand rhe removal.of the names from a rebellion standpoint than a racial one. Even though the north didn't have as many slaves as rhe south did there were a few that still had them. And the blacks weren't treated all that much better after the war with the racist attitudes of the north as well as rhe south. I am not a fan at all with getting rid of monuments and name over slavery or racism because that was just rhe world EVERYONE lived in. Using 21st century mores is a fools errand. However, rhe south DID Rebel and make their own cou try and rebelled against the government with war. I am much more inclined to remove them over that.

Lol, I didn't realize this was a thing. I have heard some complaints but wow. Here are people on Reddit giving their reasons for and against it.
Why Do You Own A Confederate Flag?
I think the problem today is EVERYONE should mind their own business and live peaceably with one another. We are all hypocrites! To accuse others of hate because they own a flag that "they think" it represents something.
I will rally my brethren and go through my town taking down all pride flags because they represent sin and it is offensive to me; Then I will tear down all Mexican flags in Texas because they killed American citizens at the Alamo, Mexicans are hateful people; then I'll burn all of the Americans flags because they put my people in concentration camps and dropped the bomb and killed many; then...... Most of you will say this is dumb, well I think you're dumb. When will it end? I can sit down and think of many more things to whine about. What you should be whining about is our mutual destruction then we won't need to worry about a flag.
When will we respect one another liberties and live in peace?

essentialsaltes said:

Nearly four years ago, the Shenandoah County School Board ... moved to rename Stonewall Jackson High School and Ashby Lee Elementary School. The schools had been named after Confederate Gens. Thomas “Stonewall” Jackson, Robert E. Lee and Turner Ashby.

That 2020 move was part of a resolution condemning racism and affirming the district’s “commitment to an inclusive school environment,” according to school board documents.

The schools have been called Mountain View High School and Honey Run Elementary School since July 2021, according to board documents.

But the composition of the school board is different now than it was during the 2020 decision – all six seats are held by different people.

The 5-1 vote came after hours of public comment during a meeting that began Thursday evening from people speaking on both sides of the issue. Vice Chairman Kyle L. Gutshall was the sole opposing vote.

“I ask that when you cast your vote, you remember that Stonewall Jackson and others fighting on the side of the Confederacy in this area were intent on protecting the land, the buildings and the lives of those under attack,” said a woman urging the board to restore the Confederate names. “Preservation is the focus of those wishing to restore the names.”

Sarah Kohrs, a mother of two students attending schools in the district, is among several parents and residents who said ahead of the vote that they were opposed to restoring the Confederacy-tied names and were frustrated it was being considered.

“It’s very frustrating to know that here we are four years after that, and we still have a small portion of the community that just refuses to move on,” Kohrs told CNN.

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Changing the name of a school does not combat racism. It is simply virtue signaling.

Embrace the past because those who forget it are doomed to repeat it.

essentialsaltes said:

I embrace history, but changing the name of the school doesn't erase history.

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Exactly. It's nothing but virtue signaling.

Laodicean60 said:

Lol, I didn't realize this was a thing. I have heard some complaints but wow. Here are people on Reddit giving their reasons for and against it.
Why Do You Own A Confederate Flag?
I think the problem today is EVERYONE should mind their own business and live peaceably with one another. We are all hypocrites! To accuse others of hate because they own a flag that "they think" it represents something.

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The issue is that there are certain symbolisms that have been co-opted to enough of a degree, that there's "no saving them" by way of "reclaiming them for another meaning".

For instance, the swastika was actually originated in Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism... So clearly it had a very different meaning to them than it did to Hitler. However, the Nazis ended up "owning" that symbolism. If someone were to put that symbol on their car or wear a shirt with it...sorry, but nobody's thinking "Gee, he must have a deep respect for ancient Hinduism". And he shouldn't be all aloof about why he's getting pushback and dirty looks.

With regards to the confederate flag in particular, there's even less wiggle room, because it's not like there was some widely known deeper historical use of that symbolism prior to it being used by the South wanting to secede to preserve the institution of slavery.

And for a lot of the people who choose to display it, their positions are pretty transparent.

A) you see a lot of people who live up north flying them. I see a lot of them slapped on the back of pickup trucks here in Ohio (last I checked, Ohio wasn't part of the south)

B) it's often accompanied by other stuff that's a giveaway.

For instance:

ThatRobGuy said:

The issue is that there are certain symbolisms

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Who gives a darn about what you think of its symbolism if you don't like it close your eyes. Because you don't give a darn about what it symbolizes to me. I think the pride flag is an offense and it's an offense to everything good let's remove it from society. Do you agree? It's all about our worldview that we want to shove down each other's throats. Don't impose your morals or beliefs on me and I won't you. This is the whole problem with the world everybody is looking into their neighbor's yard while theirs is full of dog (s)poop.

All this can be avoided by not naming schools after persons to begin with.

comana said:

All this can be avoided by not naming schools after persons to begin with.

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We can always name our schools Tiny [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] School.

Pommer said:

[media cut]

Friendly piece of advice, ax this.

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Educate me this is real-life school.

Pommer said:

There’s real life strip joints that have signage too.

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there no moderators online

Pommer said:

There’s real life strip joints that have signage too.

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I deleted it thx.

Laodicean60 said:

Have you heard the song Sweet Home Alabama "A southern man don't need him (northerner Niel Young) around...." It's tribalism because the flag represented southern states.

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This might seem like a minor point, but Neil was more northern than a northerner - he's Canadian. So some of the point of the song I think is a foreigner criticizing a culture which isn't his. If I criticized some aspect of Canadian culture I think they'd have the right to tell me to mind my own business and stop preaching. Likewise, outsiders have no right to tell a duly elected Virginia school board what they should or shouldn't do.

Plus, a few years earlier the Canadian band The Guess Who had recorded the highly critical "American Woman", so maybe Skynrd was just tired of mean Canadians picking on America.

Brihaha said:

R E Lee high school in Staunton voted in 2019 to revert back to the original Staunton High.

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I know of a Lee high school which changed its name some years ago. They changed the name to Legacy of Educational Excellence. Pretty lame, right? But they chose that name so they wouldn't have to spend money changing signage and stationery and merchandise and such.

Chesterton said:

This might seem like a minor point, but Neil was more northern than a northerner - he's Canadian. So some of the point of the song I think is a foreigner criticizing a culture which isn't his. If I criticized some aspect of Canadian culture I think they'd have the right to tell me to mind my own business and stop preaching. Likewise, outsiders have no right to tell a duly elected Virginia school board what they should or shouldn't do.

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Agree with you 100%. Have you heard foreign countries tell the West the same?

Laodicean60 said:

Agree with you 100%. Have you heard foreign countries tell the West the same?

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Not sure I understand the question.

Chesterton said:

If I criticized some aspect of Canadian culture I think they'd have the right to tell me to mind my own business and stop preaching.

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I'm sorry. I focused on this statement and it relates to how the West treats other countries. This is why they are leaving our influence.

Zaha Torte said:

Embrace the past because those who forget it are doomed to repeat it.

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I know. I was working on getting my state to leave the union again until this name change proposal having total forgotten how poorly that went last time. Thankfully this happened and the war for succession is off, dodged that bullet, thanks VA!

comana said:

All this can be avoided by not naming schools after persons to begin with.

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…or at least not naming them after traitors.