The Triumph of Bidenomics!

Presidents are sorta like ship captains and can't really do much about a storm that is already raging when they take charge, except try to keep the boat from sinking, and that's tricky and if some water splashes over the side, that's normal in a storm, but....

All things pass:

The April ConsumerAffairs Datasembly Shopping Cart Index, which tracks the price movement of 25 commonly-purchased grocery items fell to $156.76 from $160.99 in March – a decline of 2.6%. Datasembly tracks grocery prices in real-time at thousands of grocery stores.

QvQ said:

Sorry, your claims are mostly false.
The Stage Coach Stations were about 30 miles apart
The Railroad followed the Stage Routes, a whistle stop every 30 miles
And Interstate Gas Stations are on the same pattern

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Which has zero to do with electric charging stations. I can also tell you've never driven I the Western US, there are areas where even on Interstate Highways you have gaps of over 100 miles with no gas stations.

QvQ said:

We have had the basic pattern and the facilities since the Butterfield Stage in 1858
Under an Inefficient administration, the arguments you presented are nothing but excuses for administrative waste and corruption.
And in the end, that first $7.5 Billion will evaporate and it will take another $7.5 B build the next 8 charging stations.

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So you claim, the evidence shows otherwise. Again, less than half of the money has even been appropriated and, even when these chargers are built, the law requires the chargers to have a 99% up time, or they lose their federal funding.

QvQ said:

Every rest area in America has electricity.
Rest areas are 12 to 30 miles apart
The land, electrical hookups are already Right There.

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Yes, they may have 110V power available; though not anywhere close to where the parking lot is. 110V power will charge an electric vehicle in a bit less than 3 days -- I don't think anyone wants to sit at a rest station for 3 days for their car to charge. Instead, the current charges required to be built by NEVI are 1000V stations that run, something that requires high power lines to the charging station -- something that I venture most rest areas currently don't have. And, again, there are areas in the Western US where rest areas are over 100 miles apart on Interstates and often non-existent on other roads. And, to be honest, it is often these less populated areas where chargers are needed the most.

QvQ said:

And there are towns in between rest areas which most certainly have electricity.

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Again, I can tell you haven't driven in parts of Montana, Wyoming, Nevada, and Utah; again, where towns, rest areas, and even gas stations can be over 100 miles apart.

QvQ said:

There are three stretches of road that I know of in the US where one gas station is 100 miles from the next.
And there are Big Signs stating "No Gas for 100 miles " because it is so unusual.
So we have gas stations less than one hundred miles apart in this country.

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Oh, so you do know of those stretches -- and no, to use one, I can't ever recall seeing big signs on the road between Green River, UT and Grand Junction, CO saying there is no gas in-between. I recall some signs, though not "big signs" that give some warning in Wyoming but the ones I remember are those placed by Little America -- a bright idea by a businessman to build some gas stations, a restaurant, and a hotel in the middle of nowhere along I-80 in Wyoming, where there were no services or rest areas.

QvQ said:

Surely, wherever there is a gas station, there could be a charging station
Can't an EV run at least 30 to 100 miles between charges?

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I think it would be a very smart idea for gas stations to invest in chargers, seems like it would be a great way to "future proof." At the same time, I think you'd oppose the government telling gas stations they must do it or stealing part of their parking lot/land to install chargers. I do know Shell is one that has seen the light and is installing some chargers. I know some convenience stores that often have gas pumps are also installing chargers; I know Buc-ee's teamed up with Mercedes and Tesla to build chargers at several of their stores; I know QuikTrip in Europe has built out charging stations, though they haven't done much along that line in the US.

Again, it would be great if more gas companies/gas stations would build out chargers, something that NEVI is trying to encourage them to do. Unfortunately, we have the issue that companies don't want to invest in chargers when there aren't enough EVs to ensure their stations will be profitable but, at the same time, people don't want to buy EVs because of a lack of charging stations if they decide to take a road trip. Once EVs get to a certain point, they'll be little issue in getting companies to build EVs (part of why you see EVs in California and other states with higher EV adoption) since they will know they can make a profit on chargers. Unfortunately, we aren't there yet, particularly in lesser populated areas of the US where chargers are most needed.

SimplyMe said:

Which has zero to do with electric charging stations. I can also tell you've never driven I the Western US, there are areas where even on Interstate Highways you have gaps of over 100 miles with no gas stations.

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That is funny. You can also tell I have never driven the Western US? I have logged 1+million miles across the entire lower 48.
Lets Sing:
And I been from Tucson to Tucumcari
Tehachapi to Tonapah
Driven every kind of rig that's ever been made
Driven the back roads so I wouldn't get weighed
(WIllin' "Little Feat")

Of travel I've had my share, man
I've been everywhere
I've been to Reno, Chicago, Fargo, Minnesota
Buffalo, Toronto, Winslow, Sarasota
Wichita, Tulsa, Ottawa, Oklahoma
Tampa, Panama, Mattawa, La Paloma
Bangor, Baltimore, Salvador, Amarillo....
And the list goes on
Pasadena, Catalina, see what I mean
(I've Been Everywhere *Johnny Cash*)

Btw: the business man who started Little America was herding sheep and was caught in a storm there in Wyoming. He built that for sheepherders. There is plenty of fuel in Rock Springs, Lyman and other Wyoming small towns around there. The longest distance is 67.8 miles between Limon and Rock Springs. And Little America is right in between so it is abt 33 miles to Lyman west of Little America 33 miles east to Rock Springs
Surely an EV charged in Rock Springs, Little America, or Lyman can travel 33 miles without recharging.

QvQ said:

That is funny. You can tell me I have never driven the Western US? I am Million Miler.
Lets Sing:
And I been from Tucson to Tucumcari
Tehachapi to Tonapah
Driven every kind of rig that's ever been made
Driven the back roads so I wouldn't get weighed
(WIllin' "Little Feat")

Of travel I've had my share, man
I've been everywhere
I've been to Reno, Chicago, Fargo, Minnesota
Buffalo, Toronto, Winslow, Sarasota
Wichita, Tulsa, Ottawa, Oklahoma
Tampa, Panama, Mattawa, La Paloma
Bangor, Baltimore, Salvador, Amarillo
Tocapillo, Baranquilla, and Perdilla, I'm a killer
II've been to Boston, Charleston, Dayton, Louisiana
Washington, Houston, Kingston, Texarkana
Monterey, Faraday, Santa Fe, Tallapoosa
Glen Rock, Black Rock, Little Rock, Oskaloosa
Tennessee to Tennessee Chicopee, Spirit Lake
Grand Lake, Devils Lake, Crater Lake, for Pete's sake
I've been to Louisville, Nashville, Knoxville, Ombabika
Schefferville, Jacksonville, Waterville, Costa Rica
Pittsfield, Springfield, Bakersfield, Shreveport
Hackensack, Cadillac, Fond du Lac, Davenport
Idaho, Jellico, Argentina, Diamantina,
Pasadena, Catalina, see what I mean
(I've Been Everywhere *Johnny Cash*)

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So I don't know why you were trying to claim that there are rest areas every 30 miles, much less gas stations. I found this map of rest areas interesting, as it shows no rest areas in Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, Utah, Arizona, Wyoming or Montana -- though my recollection, from the last time I've driven in those states, is that they do have rest areas. My best guess is that the rest areas in those state don't meet the website's "standard" to be defined as "rest areas," likely due to missing amenities caused by their location in the "middle of nowhere."

SimplyMe said:

So I don't know why you were trying to claim that there are rest areas every 30 miles, much less gas stations. I found this map of rest areas interesting, as it shows no rest areas in Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, Utah, Arizona, Wyoming or Montana -- though my recollection, from the last time I've driven in those states, is that they do have rest areas. My best guess is that the rest areas in those state don't meet the website's "standard" to be defined as "rest areas," likely due to missing amenities caused by their location in the "middle of nowhere."

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I don’t know how things work out west, but in the northeast, there are only rest stops on toll roads. All of the other interstates, you have to get off the highway and find something.

SimplyMe said:

I found this map of rest areas interesting, as it shows no rest areas in Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, Utah, Arizona, Wyoming or Montana -- though my recollection, from the last time I've driven in those states, is that they do have rest areas.

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Trust me. There are Rest Areas in all of those States.
Some have been closed due to budget cuts.

The Western United States is not the Sahara Desert.
There are towns, truck stops, service stations all along the roads.

There is electrical to those closed rest areas.
This is the most technologically advanced nation in the world.
Haven't you heard of the Rural Electrification Program?
Every remote farmhouse in America has electricity. Off the grid is a choice as the Utilities charge to run poles to the houses now. But the Utilities will run a line anywhere in the US for the right price.

Your "best guess is that the rest areas in those state don't meet the website's "standard" to be defined as "rest areas," likely due to missing amenities caused by their location in the "Middle of Nowhere?"

What vision do you have the Western US? Where is "the Middle Of Nowhere?
Take a look at the prices of real estate around "Middle Of Nowhere" Ash Fork Arizona and the availability.
"View 233 homes for sale in Ash Fork, AZ at a median listing home price of $261,000 as of March 2024"
(those houses even have indoor plumbing)
We do have amenities, even rest areas and gas stations with restrooms, Fancy That!

NxNW said:

Maybe you should lay off the avocado toast.

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You don't understand math and you don't shop for groceries.
That $250 is the grocery budget for a family for 1 month.
It is now $450 since Biden took office.

Go buy $450 worth of groceries, including cleaning supplies, toilet paper and feed your family for one month.
Meals out are counted in the $450.
So now try $250. Try buying those same foods but at the $250 amounts.
How much avocado toast did you buy?

NxNW said:

It is because it's not true.

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You are right
The cumulative inflation rate since Biden took office is not 20%
I saw an update today and the inflation rate is 25%

NxNW said:

Except it has.

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See Above

NxNW said:

The average person doesn't have 20% less.

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If the price of goods has increased by 20%, the average person has 20% less value or purchasing power on each dollar.
Or tell me how a 20% inflation rate does not add up to a 20% loss of purchasing power, or value
That is what Inflation is, the devaluation of the currency which means the money is worth less.
Tell me how $100 - 20% = $80 is not less than the original 100
The currency has been Devalued also known as inflation.

NxNW said:

So now it's 100% instead of 20% ? ! ?

You really need to check your math.

Next, you need to thank Biden for keeping inflation lower in the US than the rest of the world. Thanks, Joe!

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Officially, the inflation rate since Biden took office is 25%.
However food has risen more than 25%
The grocery bill has increased, and I checked this against the receipts, so it went from an average of $250 to $450
You are correct. That is not 100% but it is high.
The price of eggs is up 103% and the price of most other items are up 29% to 40%.
Averaging it out, the inflation I see in my bill is abt what the increase is for that one category, food.

Gasoline is up 40%

The price of pipe for well casings has doubled.
It all adds up.

Now tell me you are paying the same price for food and gasoline that you paid during the last administration
How much more are you paying for food in 2024 than 2020? Including restaurant and fast food?

NxNW said:

Next, you need to thank Biden for keeping inflation lower in the US than the rest of the world. Thanks, Joe!

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Maybe we aren't Zimbabwe yet but we are headed in that direction. We should be thankful?
The dollar is the world reserve currency which stabilizes it.
The fact that the dollar should be solid and isn't is more a black mark than a pat on the back for Joe,

QvQ said:

Maybe we aren't Zimbabwe yet but we are headed in that direction. We should be thankful?
The dollar is the world reserve currency which stabilizes it.
The fact that the dollar should be solid and isn't is more a black mark than a pat on the back for Joe,
It is almost impossible to devalue the dollar but then as Obama said, "Don't underestimate Joe's ability to screw things up."

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Relative to other world currencies, the value of the dollar has grown by about 17% under Biden.

iluvatar5150 said:

Relative to other world currencies, the value of the dollar has grown by about 17% under Biden.

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According to an article in 2023 Heritage Foundation, the dollar has lost 16% of its value since Biden took office.
I am not conversant particularly with the value of the dollar or the Heritage Foundation.

I tend to think the value of the dollar in terms of inflation, not as pegged to other currencies.
It may be that the 16% devaluation indicates gold as the standard, not other currencies.
But you may know more or better.

Also whether other countries will accept dollars. I remember hearing the Saudis (?) were only accepting gold in payment for oil but I wasn't paying close attention. Might research that to see where I got that idea.

OK quick search, it is the yuan, Chinese currency the Saudis were considering or are accepting for oil.

NxNW said:

Maybe you should shop around.

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NxNW said:

Maybe you should lay off the avocado toast.

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Are you serious?
My $450 a month grocery bill for the family includes food, cleaning supplies, paper products,, shampoo and other personal hygiene product, pet supplies, whatever is on the receipt when I walk out the door.
And it also includes restaurants.

This is not about splurging from $250 to $450
I am buying exactly the same items in the same quantities I bought 4, 6 or even 8 years ago and paying almost twice as much.
All the same items, same quantity, Different Price

Do you shop for groceries?
What are you paying per person?
What were you paying for groceries 4 years ago?

Is "avocado toast" a variation of the Marie Antionette, "Let them eat cake" phrase.
If the people stopped eating so much cake, they could afford bread or something?

Do you believe that my food expenditures are extravagant?
Do tell where to shop around to reduce my grocery bill.

QvQ said:

Are you serious?
My $450 a month grocery bill for the family includes food, cleaning supplies, paper products,, shampoo and other personal hygiene product, pet supplies, whatever is on the receipt when I walk out the door.
And it also includes restaurants.

This is not about splurging from $250 to $450
I am buying exactly the same items in the same quantities I bought 4, 6 or even 8 years ago and paying almost twice as much.
All the same items, same quantity, Different Price

Do you shop for groceries?
What are you paying per person?
What were you paying for groceries 4 years ago?

Is "avocado toast" a variation of the Marie Antionette, "Let them eat cake" phrase.
If the people stopped eating so much cake, they could afford bread or something?

Do you believe that my food expenditures are extravagant?
Do tell where to shop around to reduce my grocery bill.

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The avocado toast comment was facetious. "Stop buying avocado toast" is a charge typically levied at young people by older folks when the young'ns complain about not being able to afford things like rent.

I just realized that your grocery bills were monthly, not weekly. I haven't spent only $250/mo on groceries since I was single 20 years ago and I'm a fairly frugal shopper. I don't think I've ever averaged less than $100/wk for 2 people.

QvQ said:

Trust me. There are Rest Areas in all of those States.
Some have been closed due to budget cuts.

The Western United States is not the Sahara Desert.
There are towns, truck stops, service stations all along the roads.

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I never claimed it was but we do have states where the population is extremely sparse. Last night I was on one of those sections of Interstate highway where you have to an hour between gas stations. And, no, the US west is not the Sahara Desert -- but we do have the Mojave Desert, Sonoran Desert, Chihuahuan Desert, Great Basin Desert, and there are a few more we can mention (though many of them would be sub-areas of these larger deserts). While none singly are as large as the Sahara, collectively they quite large.

QvQ said:

There is electrical to those closed rest areas.
This is the most technologically advanced nation in the world.
Haven't you heard of the Rural Electrification Program?
Every remote farmhouse in America has electricity. Off the grid is a choice as the Utilities charge to run poles to the houses now. But the Utilities will run a line anywhere in the US for the right price.

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When did I claim they did not have power? Still running the wires to supply 110V electricity to run a few vending machines and lights is nothing like supplying 1000V of electricity at over a thousand watts to supply a charging station that will be able to fast charge multiple EVs at the same time. It also doesn't make it any cheaper to upgrade the power lines over those miles of distance to get it to a rest area, gas stations, etc.

QvQ said:

Your "best guess is that the rest areas in those state don't meet the website's "standard" to be defined as "rest areas," likely due to missing amenities caused by their location in the "Middle of Nowhere?"

What vision do you have the Western US? Where is "the Middle Of Nowhere?

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I think I mentioned, Little America, Wyoming is pretty much the "middle of nowhere" -- my recollection is that it is one of the places where, to get to it, you have to drive over 100 miles without any other gas stations. Another might be the area be Green River, UT. Granted, it isn't that far to Moab -- though Moab is about 20 miles from the Interstate. But between Grand Junction, CO you have over 100 miles to Green River on one side, then another 100 miles to Salina on the other.

Oh, and you recall telling me about the big "no services for the next 100 miles" sign -- the only sign is a relatively small sign after you pass the last exit for Green River on the way to Salina, one small and obscure enough that many people don't see it. With no exits between Green River and Salina, if you see that sign it is too late as there is no legal way to turn around at that point, until you hit Salina.

You have some huge stretches in Nevada, particularly if you get off the Interstate. Apparently between Tonopah and Ely there is 168 miles with no services, and that isn't even mentioning US 50.

QvQ said:

Take a look at the prices of real estate around "Middle Of Nowhere" Ash Fork Arizona and the availability.
"View 233 homes for sale in Ash Fork, AZ at a median listing home price of $261,000 as of March 2024"
(those houses even have indoor plumbing)
We do have amenities, even rest areas and gas stations with restrooms, Fancy That!

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Again, I don't recall ever stating there are no amenities in the towns, just that there can be a lot of empty space between the towns. As an example, Green River is a pretty nice little town, if a bit expensive for food and fuel because it is so far from anything, but they have all the amenities -- which you likely should take advantage of because the next closest town on the Interstate (East or West) is around 100 miles, and by other road, North or South, it is likely Moab (50 miles) or (I believe) Wellington which is 70 miles.

And, just to be clear, I was on a stretch of Interstate, in the Western US, last night where it was at least 60 miles between gas stations.

SimplyMe said:

think I mentioned, Little America, Wyoming is pretty much the "middle of nowhere" -- my recollection is that it is one of the places where, to get to it, you have to drive over 100 miles without any other gas stations.

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The distance between Rock Springs Wyoming and Lyman Wyoming is 67.8 miles. Little America which is a very large truck stop is about 1/2 between the 2 towns so the distance from Rock Springs to Little America =abt 33 miles to Lyman 33 miles.
You missed Lyman. Look up real estate. Not much for sale because the economy is thriving.

You can't throw a rock in this county without hitting someone. It is fairly crowded except for Federal, State and Tribal land.

SimplyMe said:

Green River is a pretty nice little town, if a bit expensive for food and fuel because it is so far from anything, but they have all the amenities -- which you likely should take advantage of because the next closest town on the Interstate (East or West) is around 100 miles, and by other road, North or South, it is likely Moab (50 miles) or (I believe) Wellington which is 70 miles.

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The land between Moab and Wellington is Federal and State. Those areas are the middle of nowhere
However the distance to Moab from Green River is 58 miles
Green River to Salina, There is a rest area at 75.9
That area is the area that Obama is making a national monument. It is Federal land, no development although there are pull offs and rest areas.
It is not empty because people are too scarce to inhabit it. People are basically prohibited.

Also, sometimes you may not see it from the interstate but there are towns off exits where there are services.

There isn't any Middle of Nowhere. Even Federal, State and Tribal Land, go sit down out there and directly someone, forest ranger, rancher or tribal police will appear and likely there will be other people sitting next to you by the time those folks arrive.

Don't worry about your eastern perceptions of "western middle of nowhere"
My mother who was born in Denver always said "There is Nothing East of Denver
When I was little, I imagined the world ended East of Denver. "Beyond this there be dragons."

QvQ said:

The distance between Rock Springs Wyoming and Lyman Wyoming is 67.8 miles. Little America which is a very large truck stop is about 1/2 between the 2 towns so the distance from Rock Springs to Little America =abt 33 miles to Lyman 33 miles.
You missed Lyman. Look up real estate. Not much for sale because the economy is thriving.

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It's been a long time since I drove I-80 across Wyoming, I never cared for the drives so I take alternate routes (such as US 40 across northern Colorado). My thought for "middle of nowhere" in Wyoming was a bit more East, roughly Laramie across to about Rock Springs -- though looking it appears Wamsutter has grown up a bit since I last traveled that area.

QvQ said:

You can't throw a rock in this county without hitting someone. It is fairly crowded except for Federal, State and Tribal land.

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No, it is not crowded, at all, in the Western US. Six people per square mile in Wyoming is nowhere near crowded -- nor could you likely hit anyone if you were all equidistant away in that square mile.

Though I need to say, in Wyoming's defense, there are some absolutely beautiful parts of the state. I have relatives (believe it was my father's cousin's family) in Lander, a beautiful area of the state. Then, of course, you have Star Valley, Jackson, the Tetons, and Yellowstone. It is largely just the southern part of the state that I dislike traveling through.

QvQ said:

The land between Moab and Wellington is Federal and State. Those areas are the middle of nowhere
However the distance to Moab from Green River is 58 miles
Green River to Salina, There is a rest area at 75.9
That area is the area that Obama is making a national monument. It is Federal land, no development although there are pull offs and rest areas.
It is not empty because people are too scarce to inhabit it. People are basically prohibited.

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No, try again. The Mormons settled pretty much anywhere they thought they could get a town or farm to work -- there are reasons the places in Utah are empty and now under Federal ownership. A prime example is Bryce Canyon, while now a national park, it was named after Ebenezer Bryce who built a farm there. The land between Wellington and Green River is, at least from what I've seen, pretty worthless. It does seem some farms were attempted there (I seem to recall there are some old ruined farmhouses on that stretch) but the area is terrible for farming. Yes, it is now BLM land but there is little protected about it, as there are some mining and oil wells in that area.

As for the area as you approach Salina, yes, it is currently becoming a national monument (and there are some pretroglyphs worth preserving)

QvQ said:

Also, sometimes you may not see it from the interstate but there are towns off exits where there are services.

There isn't any Middle of Nowhere. Even Federal, State and Tribal Land, go sit down out there and directly someone, forest ranger, rancher or tribal police will appear and likely there will be other people sitting next to you by the time those folks arrive.

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I guarantee, if I wanted to be alone, I could be alone (in a public area outdoors) within an hour or two and no one would be likely to join me. It's harder than when I lived in this general area 30 years ago but I could still do it.

QvQ said:

Don't worry about your eastern perceptions of "western middle of nowhere"
My mother who was born in Denver always said "There is Nothing East of Denver
When I was little, I imagined the world ended East of Denver. "Beyond this there be dragons."

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I'd like to know what "eastern perceptions" you think I have? I've never lived east of the Mississippi in the US, the closest was the time spent in Mississippi for Air Force training. I've also lived West of Denver multiple times, including currently (remember me dropping the hint I was on an Interstate in the Western US last night). At the same time, I have lived in a couple of European countries so I know what "crowded" looks like.

SimplyMe said:

No, it is not crowded, at all, in the Western US. Six people per square mile in Wyoming is nowhere near crowded -- nor could you likely hit anyone if you were all equidistant away in that square mile.

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This is off topic. I grew up in Laramie.
It has huge tracts of Federal, State and Tribal Land which are uninhabited.but other than that, there are people are everywhere.
There are areas in some States like Texas where there isn't any water so no people.
I live in a remote area. The nearest towns are far but drive any country road at night and see the many lights from residences.
During the day, a person would think no one lived out there in the middle of nowhere.