Yet Again, At Planet Fitness...

Pommer said:

Why is making things better for some people a non-starter for people who aren't “afflicted”?

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What exactly does "making things better" entail?

Pommer said:

I’m pretty sure they know that there’s “something” wrong, but treating it as solely a “mental health issue” ignores the fact they wouldn’t be transitioning if therapy ”worked”.

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Would it be a problem if therapy worked and they didn't transition?

Pommer said:

Transgender people aren’t claiming to be anything but “human”, they just have human DNA that has malfunctioned.

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You have no evidence of that. Where is the evidence that their DNA has malfunction so that they ARE the opposite sex in their brain. And how would that be different than their DNA malfunctioning to so they ARE a lizard in their brain?

Pommer said:

Transgender people aren’t claiming to be anything but “human”, they just have human DNA that has malfunctioned.

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DNA that malfunctioned? Interesting. Sounds like a teleological assertion being made. Do you think there are supposed to be only male and female?

Ana the Ist said:

Yeah, that's a pretty good example...the circular definition.

The more annoying one imo typically goes like...

Left- gender is a set of clothing, behaviors, social/cultural norms, and personal feelings
Us- when women wear suits and pants and men wear drag....those are transgender people?
Left- well no...but they can be...
Us- when men decide to become nurses and women do math or leave the kitchen...those are transgender people?
Left- well no...but they can be....
Us- then we must be talking about personal feelings?
Left- but it's more than that....
Us- what more?
Left- gender is a set of clothing, behaviors, social/cultural norms, and personal feelings
Us- are you having stroke?

That one is also a circular loop.

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I never understood why transgender defenders make such arguments about gender being a social construct. It just cheapens the idea of gender and thus the idea of being transgenderism itself.

The biggest reason they probably make these arguments is because of feminism. That crowd is really into the idea of gender being a social construct. I know one trans-woman who used to make arguments for gender being evolutionary/hardwired. One day a feminist woman had a stern talk to her about how gender is just a social construct. Suddenly this trans-woman went from making arguments that have the potential for some solid foundation into making arguments that are made of sand.

I currently consider myself agnostic about transgenderism, but the idea of it being legitimate doesn't disturb me. It's just.. the arguments I see commonly presented.. I can't blame others for rejecting.

The study pointed out about the structure of the brain resembling the gender they claim to be is more promising. I understand the sample size is low.. why don't they put more effort into churning up more studies looking at gender from that direction? Give people something to grasp on other than social construct nonsense and "respect".

MehGuy said:

One day a feminist woman had a stern talk to her about how gender is just a social construct. Suddenly this trans-woman went from making arguments that have the potential for some solid foundation into making arguments that are made of sand.

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Another contradictory thing about all that is - they'll say gender is a construct, but if you use the wrong pronoun , it's like you've violated something sacred written in stone on Mt. Sinai. But if gender is a construct, how much more are pronouns (language) a construct? So if you get to engage in the construction business to be what you want, you can't tell me I can't do the same and call you what I want.

rjs330 said:

What exactly does "making things better" entail?

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Not fighting them, tooth and nail, when they try to figure their predicament out, is a start.

rjs330 said:

Would it be a problem if therapy worked and they didn't transition?

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Transitioning is where the “therapy-model” led; if therapy had worked, the “next-step” would have never come to be the “norm”.

Chesterton said:

Another contradictory thing about all that is - they'll say gender is a construct, but if you use the wrong pronoun , it's like you've violated something sacred written in stone on Mt. Sinai. But if gender is a construct, how much more are pronouns (language) a construct? So if you get to engage in the construction business to be what you want, you can't tell me I can't do the same and call you what I want.

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It's all just an unsightly incoherent mess... lol.

Personally... I don't believe feminism was ever that concerned with actually understanding what gender is in the first place. They're more attracted to the idea of women being oppressed and men being oppressors. The insistence that gender is a social construct helps feed into that. Whatever unappealing gender issues men face is just the patriarchy backfiring. Men did it... you can have less sympathy for their issues and demand that they fix it themselves (whatever that means...). For the more masochistic female feminists out there... whatever unappealing gender issues women face is more personal... because it was socially constructed by men. So, the suffering is a direct result of men.

If gender instead has more of a basis in evolutionarily psychology... the whole dynamic changes. It's harder to claim any negative gender issues men face as being "our fault". Instead, we're dealing with biological urges. One that both genders need to be mindful and responsible for. It's not some social plot to keep women down.

Trying to marry feminist ideas with transgender ones is not going to end well.

While I can sympathize with transgender people being frustrated... I think many need to start being more self-reflective. Perhaps some of this drawback is their fault? That not everyone who doesn't unquestionably accept them is a bigot.. but instead, not interested in their gibberish mess of a worldview. I think it's time for the trans-gender community to go back to the drawing board.. Come up with arguments that actually benefit them.. not ones that have to be ideologically sound to the overall leftist worldview. If you don't.. then don't cry when others don't take you seriously.

Pommer said:

Not fighting them, tooth and nail, when they try to figure their predicament out, is a start.

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What does that even mean? Fighting tooth and nail is not a specific. It's a broad generalization that not exact at all.

Pommer said:

Transitioning is where the “therapy-model” led; if therapy had worked, the “next-step” would have never come to be the “norm”.

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Affirmative therapy is not real therapy. And I didn't make that up. That's what therapists have said. Secondly what's you evid4nce that the therapy model led to transitioning? WPATH is where transitioning and the affirmative model came from. And we all know what a garbage organization WPATH us.

Ceallaigh said:

I identify as handicapped and therefore demand to be allowed to park wherever I want to. And to also be put at the head of the line for everything. And receive disability pay from the government. Some call that fraud, I call it being transabled.

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I identify as non Biden-ary

Pommer said:

Not fighting them, tooth and nail, when they try to figure their predicament out, is a start.

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What's being fought tooth and nail? Do you mean not involving children in it? Not going along with trans newspeak? Not accepting axioms like men can become pregnant?

rjs330 said:

What does that even mean? Fighting tooth and nail is not a specific. It's a boost generalization that not exact at all.

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You know something is bad when those in support of it avoid being straightforward.

Ana the Ist said:

Wasn't much else to do with that post.

In regards to your "study" what don't you understand? Sample sizes or statistics?

Let's see....

330 million people....someone said the trans population is about 0.6% I think, we'll just assume that's accurate.

That's about 1,980,000 people. I think women are under represented by a significant amount but I don't care by how much....so let's just pull a generous number out of nowhere....500,000 of those are women trying to be men....

A statistically significant sample would be.....50,000. Your sample had 24.

Your sample had 24 lol. It's quite literally garbage. Even a sample of 500 might be enough to merit further research....24 merits really nothing of note. It should have been printed out, balled up, and thrown in the trash. It certainly shouldn't be influencing things like...

1. Science.
2. Medicine.
3. The soft brained public.

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I did say research was ongoing, and I never claimed it was conclusive. I only suggested a possible link, nothing more. And that, just because you were insisting that there was no objective basis for gender identity. I merely tried to show you there might be one...I never made any claim beyond that.

So your complete and utter dismissal of anything that doesn't add to your confirmation bias is noted.

Ana the Ist said:

Anything else?

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Nope.

-- A2SG, not that there'd be any point to anything else, anyway....

Ana the Ist said:

This is a purely biological process that's gone wrong then?

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Sort of. If you want to assume that anything different from the norm is "wrong," that's your judgment to make. Not everyone sees it that way, though.

Biology works the way it works. We're the ones who place value judgments on that process.

-- A2SG, well, some do, and some don't....people are people, ya know....