I hate Repent of your sins to be Saved. it is a false gospel, lie from the pit of hell

Guojing said:

See what Zacharias said, in Luke 1:67-75 to see an example of how, in Christ's first coming, it was to fulfill the promises to Israel.

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Her came to the Jew first, they were under a curse. Then after that the Gentiles

Guojing said:

If that is not enough, you can also read Romans 15:8

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They were under a curse by the Sinai covenant, but the covenant of circumcision of his promise on Christ. Israel as nation will remain as long as this world endures because the covenant of circumcision. Because the carnal circumcision are heirs to earthly worldy inheritance.

Guojing said:

I already linked the Body of Christ as a fulfillment of the promise to Abraham in Genesis 22 that he will have descendants as numerous as the stars in heaven, so why do you still say I am "leaving Abraham" out?

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Because you said he did not come for the Gentiles.
Heb 6:15 And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.
16 For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife.
17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:
18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
The carnal commands of the law, Have been disannulled for Concerning priesthood here. Christ though Not a son of Aaron, not being of Levi because of this.
Clean and unclean were carnal, sacrifices, carnal. Citizenship by carnal circumcision. Priesthood, by genealogy.

Heb 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

The disannulling of the carnal elements of the law, That allows all faithful Jews to be priest in Christ, is also applies to Gentiles as well.
It is birth by promise, and circumcision by promise for both....not just one. If the carnal commands prevent gentiles, then it also prevents Jews. the promises are to Abraham, which children we are.

ralliann said:

Her came to the Jew first, they were under a curse. Then after that the Gentiles

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So Jesus coming to Israel was to fulfill the promises God made to the fathers of Israel (Romans 15:8).

Your point "God never promised anything to Israel in Christ either." is therefore incorrect.

That is my point.

ralliann said:

Because you said he did not come for the Gentiles.

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Jesus said that himself in Matthew 15:24. Paul reminded us gentiles of that in Ephesians 2:11-12 and Romans 15:8 as well.

Guojing said:

So if we don't do the works after we are saved, are we still saved?

That is the million dollar question.

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Yes.
Works are done to add the rewards in Heaven. Be cause we are made for good works. So once saved, we do good works.
Who do you know that has ever claimed to be saved and never done a good work? Sounds like a hypothetical that can't be demonstrated.

Peace and Blessings

Palmfever said:

He did not repent because he had sinned. He repented because He had made man. He repented that he had made Saul King. You may repent for your sins or not, that is your God given option. I have no desire to argue. We've been warned by our Creator. You will do as you will.

Ezekiel 18
"But when a righteous person turns away from his righteousness and does injustice and does the same abominations that the wicked person does, shall he live? None of the righteous deeds that he has done shall be remembered; for the treachery of which he is guilty and the sin he has committed, for them he shall die."
But if the wicked man turns from all the sins he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die. 22 None of the transgressions he has committed will be held against him. Because of the righteousness he has practiced, he will live. 23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Lord GOD. Wouldn’t I prefer that he turn from his ways and live?

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That is Eactly what I said.

You are taking this too far and adding words to my statement that are not there.

I am simply demonstrating that repenting does not only involve sins. If you cannot acknowledge that, that is your choice. But we are not talking about the same thing from the very original post. You are changing the topic. Not me.
I have never said or implied I do not repent. Please Do Not imply that I did, Please Do Not imply that I do not repent.

Peace and Blessings

JulieB67 said:

I don't believe so. Because right after stating there there is no darkness in God it becomes about us-

This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

And then it states if we walk in the light than we have fellowship and our sins are cleansed. There's a condition there- "If we walk in the light..."

Of course it's on us. That's the entire point.


No one is stating anything of the sort about God being tainted. John is stating that the truth is not in us if we walk in darkness. It's that simple.

Again, if we walk in the light. That was the condition that John stated.


I disagree. Without repentance there is a possible threat to one's salvation. There is a reason the Foolish Virgins didn't make it. There's a reason that Christ turns away some. These were past believers. Foolish Virgins were waiting for the Bridegroom. Others cast out in his name and so on. It is stated that in the latter days there will be a falling away and people will depart from the faith.

The salvation is always there for the taking but people can walk away/depart from it.



It really depends on the person and is between that person and God. Honest repentance/change of heart and mind can take time.

In the end, we know our Father is the judge.

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Again, this is about us poorly reflecting back on God where Others see us and think, wow, their god is not so great. John is assuring this is not the case. That the problem does not lie with Jesus, but with man. Until you recognize this is the main focus point, you will use the rest in the wrong context.

I am sorry, but it sounds like you then live in constant fear of your salvation. Why?
Salvation is Eternal. It is called Eternal Hell and Eternal Salvation. Neither come and go. They Are.

Peace and Blessings

Guojing said:

That is not even correct

If you understand what I said to you earlier, the call for repentance, in Jesus's first coming, is for the entire nation of Israel to repent of one national sin, which is Israel the nation rejecting God.

As I explained there



Its not repenting for individual sins.

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Correct. Jesus is speaking to the nation of Isreal. That does in no way make his statements only apply ever to Isreal. Repent is Global.
I was clear in stating that it was not for personal sins.

Peace and Blessings

TPop said:

Who do you know that has ever claimed to be saved and never done a good work?

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True

TPop said:

I am sorry, but it sounds like you then live in constant fear of your salvation. Why?

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I actually find that kind of funny because I am more relaxed now in my journey as a Christian than I have ever been in my entire life. Sorry if I'm coming off like I'm like that. The only thing to fear in my opinion is the unknown but a Christian doesn't have to worry about that. As I said, God is the judge he knows who's sincere and who's not. Maybe I'm not explaining myself very well but I do agree with you on some points. Like the above first comment. That's how I see someone who's an actual Christian. They will naturally produce good works out of their heart -not because they feel like they have to. Sin for that person would probably not be the biggest issue other than the fact that one can't live in sin. So I agree with you on that and that's been my major point. If someone does that they have to get back into the light through repentance-that change of heart. Yes, you are thinking differently on many things. But to me living in sin is a big one.

I was in fear at times in my younger years but that was because I wasn't really in the Word back then. Once I started to actually get into Gods' Word the fear ceased. That's was well over 20 years ago.

Again though I believe that although the salvation is always there, a person can walk away. If a person walks in darkness the truth is not in them. To me, there can be only one truth that John is talking about.

I believe that salvation is eternal as long as someone continues to abide in Christ.

JulieB67 said:

True

I actually find that kind of funny because I am more relaxed now in my journey as a Christian than I have ever been in my entire life. Sorry if I'm coming off like I'm like that. The only thing to fear in my opinion is the unknown but a Christian doesn't have to worry about that. As I said, God is the judge he knows who's sincere and who's not. Maybe I'm not explaining myself very well but I do agree with you on some points. Like the above first comment. That's how I see someone who's an actual Christian. They will naturally produce good works out of their heart -not because they feel like they have to. Sin for that person would probably not be the biggest issue other than the fact that one can't live in sin. So I agree with you on that and that's been my major point. If someone does that they have to get back into the light through repentance-that change of heart. Yes, you are thinking differently on many things. But to me living in sin is a big one.

I was in fear at times in my younger years but that was because I wasn't really in the Word back then. Once I started to actually get into Gods' Word the fear ceased. That's was well over 20 years ago.

Again though I believe that although the salvation is always there, a person can walk away. If a person walks in darkness the truth is not in them. To me, there can be only one truth that John is talking about.

I believe that salvation is eternal as long as someone continues to abide in Christ.

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Nah, you are not giving off the vibe. But it is what I infer from your posts. Or maybe more clearly, it is all I can infer. That you don't believe your are sealed by/unto God. You're His!

Do you think you could walk away? We're not talking about ignoring God here, right? We're talking about turning against God. Instead of intentionally doing right, we turn away and intentionally do wrong. I can't imagine that. The whole time I would know I am just heaping pain upon myself.

The only people that can do that, to me, were never saved in the first place.

Its like extreme heat. Once you know what it is, you fear it. Meaning how many times since learning a burner on the stove is hot did you touch it intentionally? Can you really take a knife and put it right up to your eye knowing what knives can do to eyes and how important they are?

I always think it is funny how scared people, myself included are of a cliff edge. Not like I am actually, intentionally going to step off or jump off the cliff right?

To do any of those things would be foolish and painful and dangerous. Once you are born again, you have fear of the Lord.

Do you know of anyone who had Salvation and gave it up? Is there anyone in scripture that did? Moses tried to do so for the Israelites. Because he loved them that much.

I have never known or known of or heard of anyone who lost salvation.

Peace and Blessings.

JulieB67 said:

Again though I believe that although the salvation is always there, a person can walk away. If a person walks in darkness the truth is not in them. To me, there can be only one truth that John is talking about.

I believe that salvation is eternal as long as someone continues to abide in Christ.

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Additionally, 1 John 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 is not talking about those that sin. He is talking about those that have a lifestyle of sin. They are not saved.

TPop said:

Repent is to change your thinking. Jesus spoke to the crowd about sins Others committed. And he changed the conversation away from 'why did God allow that' or some such and to 'what does this mean to me?'.

Jesus taught people a whole new way of thinking. Instead of looking outward. He taught them to look inward. That is the repentance Jesus himself spoke of.

Thus, 'there are cruel mean evil people out there. What does that mean to me? Am I one. Can I be one of those? I need to rethink my foundation and thought processes and why I do things.'

While it can be about sin. Sin is not the focus. Chaning our whole thought process to be like Jesus' though process is what we need.

Peace and Blessings.

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I believe you for the most part/ I 100% agree that repentance is to have a change of mind. Where sin is involved in my book is more specific. Our sins are what usually bring us the most shame. If you bring your sin to God and ask for forgiveness, it will be granted but say you want forgiveness to put your past behind you and go a new way with your life (in essence) The main thing I am looking at by correlating sin with repentance is sin can tell you where you were, repentance is being forgiven and are shown how to go a new way.

This is an old argument that need not be. It is not faith verses works. As James sums up, It is faith that works

“Nowhere in the bible does it say the phrase repent of your sins.”

Acts 2:38
And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

2 Corinthians 7:10
For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death.

Acts 20:21
Testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 17:30
The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent,

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Titus 3:5
He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Acts 3:19
Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out,

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Luke 13:3
No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Acts 16:31
And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

John 3:16-17
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

Luke 24:47
And that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

Mark 1:15
And saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

Romans 2:4
Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?

Acts 26:20
But declared first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds in keeping with their repentance.

Luke 13:5
No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”

Mark 7:20-23
And he said, “What comes out of a person is what defiles him. For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”

Mark 6:12
So they went out and proclaimed that people should repent.

Mark 3:28-
“Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the children of man, and whatever blasphemies they utter, but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”—

Mark 1:4
John appeared, baptizing in the wilderness and proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Matthew 18:21-22
Then Peter came up and said to him, “Lord, how often will my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?” Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you seven times, but seventy-seven times.

Matthew 4:17
From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

Matthew 3:11
“I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Matthew 3:8
Bear fruit in keeping with repentance.

Matthew 3:2
“Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

Ezekiel 33:11
Say to them, As I live, declares the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live; turn back, turn back from your evil ways, for why will you die, O house of Israel?

Proverbs 28:13
Whoever conceals his transgressions will not prosper, but he who confesses and forsakes them will obtain mercy.

Revelation 3:19
Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent.

Revelation 3:3
Remember, then, what you received and heard. Keep it, and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come against you.

Revelation 2
Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.

1 John 3:3
And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.

1 John 2:2
He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 2:1-2
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 1:8
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

1 Peter 3:21
Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

1 Peter 3:18
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,

1 Peter 2:2
Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up into salvation—

James 4:17
So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

James 1:15
Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.

Hebrews 6:1
Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,

2 Timothy 2:25
Correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth,

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

Ephesians 1:7
In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,

Romans 10:9
Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 4:5
And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,

Acts 22:16
And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’

Acts 11:18
When they heard these things they fell silent. And they glorified God, saying, “Then to the Gentiles also God has granted repentance that leads to life.”

Acts 8:22
Repent, therefore, of this wickedness of yours, and pray to the Lord that, if possible, the intent of your heart may be forgiven you.

John 20:31
But these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you; go, and from now on sin no more.”

John 5:14
Afterward Jesus found him in the temple and said to him, “See, you are well! Sin no more, that nothing worse may happen to you.”

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

Luke 15:7
Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.

Luke 5:32
I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.”

Luke 3:3
And he went into all the region around the Jordan, proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Matthew 12:41
The men of Nineveh will rise up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here.

Ezekiel 18:30-32
“Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, declares the Lord God. Repent and turn from all your transgressions, lest iniquity be your ruin. Cast away from you all the transgressions that you have committed, and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! Why will you die, O house of Israel? For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Lord God; so turn, and live.”

Nowhere does it say repent of your sins to be saved?


Salvation comes when we have turned from self absorption and direction. This results in our eyes being opened, giving us the recognition of truth, and our belief/faith. The consequence is a Spirit directed life which produces good fruit. We are no longer captive and have found freedom in Christ. Yet, knowing that God/Christ exist is not enough. “The devil believes, and trembles.”

There is a important distinction between believing that God is, and accepting Christ as our salvation. We gratefully relinquish the reigns to the King of Kings while proclaiming Him Lord in our life.
Satan who has seen God, will not concede Christ as Lord.

Sins are simply mistakes. We grow and mature daily turning from small sins that hinder our walk and increasingly align ourselves with His Spirit. I know, you know this. Your initial statement was however a very strong one and I was persuaded to respond.

Thanks for your response and may we continue seeking His grace.

TPop said:

Correct. Jesus is speaking to the nation of Isreal. That does in no way make his statements only apply ever to Isreal. Repent is Global.
I was clear in stating that it was not for personal sins.

Peace and Blessings

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Gentiles come from many different nations.

What national sin did we gentiles commit, during Jesus's first coming, then we needed to repent then?

If you cannot answer that question, then it makes zero sense to try to apply repentance, (Matthew 21:33-46; Mark 12:1-12; Luke 20:9-19), to us gentiles during Jesus's first coming.

We gentiles, as Paul explained in Ephesians 2:11-12, were already cut off from God during the first coming of Christ (Matthew 15:24).

TPop said:

Yes.
Works are done to add the rewards in Heaven. Be cause we are made for good works. So once saved, we do good works.
Who do you know that has ever claimed to be saved and never done a good work? Sounds like a hypothetical that can't be demonstrated.

Peace and Blessings

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Do you accept that, in Matthew 25:31-46, the sheep and goat judgement of the gentile nations, if you read it literally without inserting Pauline revelation into it, Jesus is saying those gentiles are sheep because they fed his Jewish brethren?

TPop said:

have never known or known of or heard of anyone who lost salvation.

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I don't plan on walking way but it's written that in the latter times some will depart from the faith/fall away. As I said there's a reason Christ turns people away in the end. The Foolish Virgins are seeking to meet the bridegroom but were shut out in the end. Christ turns others away that even cast out in his name. These were believers.

My belief is we have to continue to abide in Christ until the end to be assured of that salvation.

JulieB67 said:

I don't plan on walking way but it's written that in the latter times some will depart from the faith/fall away. As I said there's a reason Christ turns people away in the end. The Foolish Virgins are seeking to meet the bridegroom but were shut out in the end. Christ turns others away that even cast out in his name. These were believers.

My belief is we have to continue to abide in Christ until the end to be assured of that salvation.

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Well, during the Tribulation, if one believes Christ is their Messiah at the beginning, but takes the mark of the beast later on, he would have lost his salvation.

Palmfever said:

Ezekiel 18
"But when a righteous person turns away from his righteousness and does injustice and does the same abominations that the wicked person does, shall he live? None of the righteous deeds that he has done shall be remembered; for the treachery of which he is guilty and the sin he has committed, for them he shall die."
But if the wicked man turns from all the sins he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die. 22 None of the transgressions he has committed will be held against him. Because of the righteousness he has practiced, he will live. 23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Lord GOD. Wouldn’t I prefer that he turn from his ways and live?

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The verses you used in Ezekiel 18 does not apply to the required repentance in Christ Jesus in the New Testament. These verses in Ezekiel are based on the Old Testament laws that we are no longer under.

Jesus brought in the New Testament at His death on the cross. Jesus died for all because all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. To repent is not based on our own efforts, but repentance is given by God to those who hear the word, and believe it.

Under the Old Testament, to turn away from sin required the keeping of God’s Statues, where the Levite Priest administered all of the ordinances that God required for forgiveness, to include the sprinkling of the blood of animals on the people and the alter.

The process has changed under the New Testament/new covenant. Jesus is now our one time atonement/Passover Who we believe on.

In the gospel, in regards to salvation, there are biblical reasons for repentance, for being baptized, and for receiving the Holy Ghost.

If a person does not repent of their sins, they cannot be saved. To believe on Christ and repent of our sins allow the blood of Christ to wash our sins away, when we are baptized, whereas we receive the Holy Spirit where we are sealed. If we say we have no sin to repent of, then there is no operation of the blood to cleans us, and the Holy Spirit cannot seal us. We remain forever in our sins with no savior.

Guojing said:

Well, during the Tribulation, if one believes Christ is their Messiah at the beginning, but takes the mark of the beast later on, he would have lost his salvation.

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They were not saved.

[Rev 13:15 KJV] 15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Those who would not, are killed.
Those that would, were never in the book of life, and took the mark.

Peace and Blessings

TPop said:

They were not saved.

[Rev 13:15 KJV] 15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Those who would not, are killed.
Those that would, were never in the book of life, and took the mark.

Peace and Blessings

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The Tribulation will last a few years.

If they believe in Christ in year 1, are you saying they cannot consider themselves saved then, but only until the end of the Tribulation, where they must pass the test of not taking the mark?

Guojing said:

The Tribulation will last a few years.

If they believe in Christ in year 1, are you saying they cannot consider themselves saved then, but only until the end of the Tribulation, where they must pass the test of not taking the mark?

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God seals his people. They already have a mark.
I do not believe that the false trinity can mark what the true tinity has already marked.

Peace and Blessings