More states are considering bills allowing medically assisted death this year

Laodicean60 · Feb 16, 2024

dogs4thewin said:
I used to opposed to this since watching my father lose his battle with colon cancer in 15 lose about 100 pounds in six months doped up on medication I am not sure anymore.

I took care of my mom for 5 years but for the last year My wife and I had to change her diaper at least twice a day, I had to carry her to the shower because as her son I was uncomfortable laying my hands on her private parts. Checking on her sitting in the chair like a zombie plus she could hardly communicate because of the degradation of her mind. The constant worry. I now understand the frustration and abuse that family caregivers can do. After my mom died I told my wife that no one is going to wipe my butt! Maybe it's pride plus it's about the quality of life. Why live if you can't enjoy life? People who can't critically think or never experienced it live on a fantasy island.

RileyG · Feb 16, 2024

Whyayeman said:
Terrified of what? Dying and release from the pain; or not dying and the pain continuing?

Dying must be terrifying. I think both can be terrifying

ThatRobGuy · Feb 16, 2024

Whyayeman said:
I disagree. It is rooted in the humane consideration of the wishes of the terminally ill. Those in favour are not pushing for having the decision taken by others. Only the dying person is to have the right to decide.

And like I noted in my earlier example, when you think about it...

If we treated our pets the same way as we treat our terminally ill people (as in just barely keep them alive for 4 months in a medically prolonged state of suffering instead of having them put to sleep), people would be calling up the ASPCA to report animal abuse.

And in this case, we're not even talking about making that decision for another person, just merely giving them the option to make that decision for themselves.

Brihaha · Feb 16, 2024

dogs4thewin said:
I used to opposed to this since watching my father lose his battle with colon cancer in 15 lose about 100 pounds in six months doped up on medication I am not sure anymore.

I heard that. I can't even decide my own hypothetical choice let alone try to decide whether or not I should weigh the opinion regarding others. I don't think I would want the state to decide for me though. It seems like an obvious liberty we have recited in our Pledge of Allegiance for so many years. If we respect our liberty of life shouldn't we also respect our liberty of death? What could be more liberating?

Whyayeman · Feb 16, 2024

Brihaha said:
I can't even decide my own hypothetical choice let alone try to decide whether or not I should weigh the opinion regarding others. I don't think I would want the state to decide for me though.

You don't have to decide for other people. The state must never decide. Voluntary Assisted means just that. The only persons deciding is the one who has the option to end their own lives.

The legislation, if and when it is made, must be clear.

FireDragon76 · Feb 16, 2024

Whyayeman said:
I disagree. It is rooted in the humane consideration of the wishes of the terminally ill. Those in favour are not pushing for having the decision taken by others. Only the dying person is to have the right to decide.

If you think internal ageism and ableism, to say nothing of real or perceived external pressures, don't play a role in those decisions, you are being naive.

Desk trauma · Feb 16, 2024

FireDragon76 said:
If you think internal ageism and ableism, to say nothing of real or perceived external pressures, don't play a role in those decisions, you are being naive.

Hypothetically all that is put to rest, then would you agree with allowing people this option legally?

Chrystal-J · Feb 16, 2024

7thKeeper said:
Anything to back that anyone would be encouraged by the government? Or that it would be imposed? I find slippery slope arguements in general to be extremely silly and ones you make when you got nothing to back the conclusion with.

Canadian Paralympian: I asked for a disability ramp - and was offered euthanasia

7thKeeper · Feb 16, 2024

Chrystal-J said:
Canadian Paralympian: I asked for a disability ramp - and was offered euthanasia

Yes, I read that before. That case was investigated and no evidence of that offer was found to have been made. However, they found a different person (iirc) who they found evidence of having made such suggestions. He was punished for that.
However, this still lacks what you claim. Encouraging and ESPECIALLY important, imposing. No one ever told anyone "you're going to get euthanasia, that's that."

ThatRobGuy · Feb 16, 2024

Chrystal-J said:
Canadian Paralympian: I asked for a disability ramp - and was offered euthanasia

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/medical-assistance-death-maid-veterans-christine-gauthier-1.6674747

...there's not really any solid evidence to suggest that the aforementioned interaction ever actually happened.

The only evidence they could find involved four people who interacted with the same call center employee (who certainly wouldn't be authorized to make such a decision anyway)...and who has since been terminated.

By that standard, Time Warner cable is guilty of attempted murder due to some recordings of frustrated $9/hour call center employees (doing work for them) telling difficult customers what they'd like to do to them.

All of that aside, if I were a patient in the last 4 months of stage 4 cancer and was in tremendous pain and misery, what does an anecdote about something that supposedly happened in Canada have to do with whether or not I should have the right to ask the doctor for a drug that will let me go to sleep peacefully and die now instead of suffer through the next 4 months (that'll be even worse), only to meet the same fate?

Here's an idea

Maybe someone can start a program where they can help facilitate getting terminally ill cancer patients to confess to unsolved murders, then some conservatives will be more than happy to allow them to get an injection that ends their life early.

Laodicean60 · Feb 16, 2024

Chrystal-J said:
Canadian Paralympian: I asked for a disability ramp - and was offered euthanasia

Did he agree?

Whyayeman · Feb 16, 2024

FireDragon76 said:
If you think internal ageism and ableism, to say nothing of real or perceived external pressures, don't play a role in those decisions, you are being naive.

In the cases of voluntary assisted death I have read about it seems to me that terminally ill people were making rational choices about their own lives. I have not detected pressure from relatives. I think you are suggesting that there is always a measure of coercion involved.

That would not be wholly voluntary. Nobody is advocating for that.

Chrystal-J · Feb 16, 2024

Laodicean60 said:
Did he agree?

She was appalled. No, she didn't agree--but was very frustrated because she couldn't get her ramp, but could commit suicide.

FireDragon76 · Feb 16, 2024

Chrystal-J said:
She was appalled. No, she didn't agree--but was very frustrated because she couldn't get her ramp, but could commit suicide.

Veterans Affairs in Canada is denying the incident happened, but it wouldn't surprise me if one of their employees did in fact make that suggestion off-handedly. Both Yahoo and CBC reported it as news.

This is typical of the bigotry that disabled people deal with all too often, and pro-euthanasia laws will just normalize these attitudes.

deborahjoy429 · Mar 7, 2024

Unfortunately, wherever these laws are embraced, we see them creeping over into determining the future of a growing portion of the very chronically ill who are not dying—subtly or overtly pressuring them to take this step. They become the canaries in the coal mine of the shifting perspective that emerges once euthanasia is on the table and an indication of why we’re not supposed to play w humans’ appointed time to die.

It starts to look more and more socially selfish to live if you’re a burden on society, and society sees less and less need to pick up that burden w caretaking, providing some medicines and services, and even medical research. And neither of those results are the way of Jesus or His valuation of those humans.

I definitely can feel the sympathetic pull for easing final months, but these realities are such a stark warning away from it. And who’s to say they’re not reflected in the pressure a dying person may also feel to “go”—perhaps before they’ve sat in the pain long enough to really confront and be confronted by the reality of God or simply to experience the humility and refining God built into rhe weakness and suffering of the body’s decay after lives where they may have generally felt self-sufficient or even self-righteously powerful?

Our souls are embodied, and they are meant to develop alongside the various experiences of that body, often stretching in new ways even as (and because) the body decays.

7thKeeper · Mar 7, 2024

FireDragon76 said:
Veterans Affairs in Canada is denying the incident happened, but it wouldn't surprise me if one of their employees did in fact make that suggestion off-handedly. Both Yahoo and CBC reported it as news.

This is typical of the bigotry that disabled people deal with all too often, and pro-euthanasia laws will just normalize these attitudes.

That's a leap of logic if I ever saw one.

FireDragon76 · Mar 7, 2024

7thKeeper said:
That's a leap of logic if I ever saw one.

No, it's not. Laws have a normativity to them, they aren't merely regulative. Laws reflect the values and norms of a society. In this case, human freedom, as conceived through libetarianism, is placed above the value of human life. But it's seemingly nihilistic- how can there be freedom without life?

7thKeeper · Mar 8, 2024

FireDragon76 said:
No, it's not. Laws have a normativity to them, they aren't merely regulative. Laws reflect the values and norms of a society. In this case, human freedom, as conceived through libetarianism, is placed above the value of human life. But it's seemingly nihilistic- how can there be freedom without life?

Life doesn't equate freedom either, if we want to go more philosophical here.
And yes, I do believe it's a leap. Laws meant to allow people legally and painfree to kill themselves does not lead to discrimination towards the disabled. That there is a leap of logic.

FireDragon76 · Mar 8, 2024

7thKeeper said:
Life doesn't equate freedom either, if we want to go more philosophical here.
And yes, I do believe it's a leap. Laws meant to allow people legally and painfree to kill themselves does not lead to discrimination towards the disabled. That there is a leap of logic.

It reinforces ableism and ageism, that certain lives are of lesser quality or not worth living.

Ophiolite · Mar 8, 2024

FireDragon76 said:
It reinforces ableism and ageism, that certain lives are of lesser quality or not worth living.

And yet by denying those whose disabilities or age render their lives, in their view, not worth living, you essentially say: "Your disabilty or your age disqualify you from having any say in how your life should end."

I'm sure your concerns are well founded, but I don't think you have properly considered the significance of your choice to restrict the freedom of others. If you also experience the problems of disability or age, perhaps you feel you must oppose such freedom to protect yourself. Or perhaps not.

More states are considering bills allowing medically assisted death this year

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