the Antichrist

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Satan is an angel, who can appear as a man while on the earth. Satan is also a being who never dies nor ages, but has been at work since before the little horn known as Antiochus Epiphanes. Satan was already at work behind the scenes of the Abomination of Desolation set up by Antiochus Epiphanes. Satan was at work behind the kingdom of Greece, the kingdom of Rome, and continued on with the ten toes all the way up to the Reformation. Satan is behind who we wrestle against per Paul in: Ephesians 6:12

"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

Satan is and has been at work always behind Daniel's image of chapter 2. The dragon in Revelation 12 represents the image of Daniel 2. The beast out of the sea of humanity is the same as the image in Daniel 2. And this beast is explained in Revelation 17 as the scarlet colored beast. All the human empires since Babylon.

So Satan is still at work today in every human government as long as humans give in to Satan's deceptions. It is the Holy Spirit at work restraining Satan. The Holy Spirit works through humans willing to stand up against Satan's constant attacks against the Word of God.
Can you point me to the text saying Satan is an angel?

They are exhorted to put on the armor of God because they would not be wrestling against flesh and blood but against the spiritual wickedness of those in high places. Against the men who hold high places. Like the Pharisees. Like those who teach false ideas. Like government agencies, who would demand you to do things God opposes.
 
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Timtofly

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Can you point me to the text saying Satan is an angel?

They are exhorted to put on the armor of God because they would not be wrestling against flesh and blood but against the spiritual wickedness of those in high places. Against the men who hold high places. Like the Pharisees. Like those who teach false ideas. Like government agencies, who would demand you to do things God opposes.
2 Corinthians 11:13-15

"For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works."
 
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2 Corinthians 11:13-15

"For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works."
“And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.”

Can you describe how that works?
 
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“And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.”

I have considered this verse in context and concluded that Satan, just as other deceivers, would pretend to be something they are not. They would deceive someone into thinking something was good that was not good.

This reminded me of the garden of Eden when Eve saw that the fruit was good. The fruit may have been very good to eat, but it was bad because it was forbidden.

Eve desired the fruit but was told by Adam not to touch it because she would die as God had told Adam he would die if he ate it.

Eve saw that the fruit was good to eat and desired to make one wise.

“You will not surely die,” the serpent told her. 5“For God knows that in the day you eat of it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

The serpent lied about Eve not dying, but was truthful about her being like gods, knowing good and evil.

In scripture, angels are called gods. Psalm 82:1 and angels have been seen who appear in white and glorious. If the serpent had told Eve she would be as the angels, Eve must have knew who they were and also the glory they had.

And that’s what finally convinced Eve to take the fruit. The idea she would be as the glorious angels of light. Light represents knowing good and darkness as evil.

So, Eve herself believed she would be as the angels of light ignoring the fact she would die. But she did become like them in knowing good and evil.

Ultimately it was her own desire that killed her.

James 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. 14But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
 
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Timtofly

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“And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.”

Can you describe how that works?
That is how Satan was created. Have you always looked like a male human?

Angels can appear as men. That is from Scripture. But no human can appear as an angel.

"Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares."

Can you describe how being a son of God works? 1 John 3:2

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."

The question is how would we recognize Satan in human form.
 
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One God and Father of All

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That is how Satan was created. Have you always looked like a male human?

Angels can appear as men. That is from Scripture. But no human can appear as an angel.

"Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares."

Can you describe how being a son of God works? 1 John 3:2

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."

The question is how would we recognize Satan in human form.
Angels appear as men because man was made in their image. “Let us make man in our image”.

A son of God is one who is obedient to the will of God. The others are called “children of disobedience”.

Satan does not take on human form. The human form which is in disobedience of God is Satan(an adversary) or a devil.
 
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Timtofly

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“And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.”

I have considered this verse in context and concluded that Satan, just as other deceivers, would pretend to be something they are not. They would deceive someone into thinking something was good that was not good.

This reminded me of the garden of Eden when Eve saw that the fruit was good. The fruit may have been very good to eat, but it was bad because it was forbidden.

Eve desired the fruit but was told by Adam not to touch it because she would die as God had told Adam he would die if he ate it.

Eve saw that the fruit was good to eat and desired to make one wise.

“You will not surely die,” the serpent told her. 5“For God knows that in the day you eat of it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

The serpent lied about Eve not dying, but was truthful about her being like gods, knowing good and evil.

In scripture, angels are called gods. Psalm 82:1 and angels have been seen who appear in white and glorious. If the serpent had told Eve she would be as the angels, Eve must have knew who they were and also the glory they had.

And that’s what finally convinced Eve to take the fruit. The idea she would be as the glorious angels of light. Light represents knowing good and darkness as evil.

So, Eve herself believed she would be as the angels of light ignoring the fact she would die. But she did become like them in knowing good and evil.

Ultimately it was her own desire that killed her.

James 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. 14But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
You don't think that Satan was that serpent who tempted Eve?


You have way more human additions to this post, and you still don't think Satan is an angel.

None of your reasoning was even biblical, nor containing any Scripture to support what you wrote.

Some point to the verses about Lucifer, and reason that cannot be Satan. You did not even make that argument. Some false beliefs call both Satan and Jesus equal and angels. You are the first one I have ever heard of who denies Satan is an angel.

It is an assumption by humans to think that Adam told Eve not to touch the fruit. It would be an assumption to think that Eve herself could not eat. The command was that Adam could not eat. All could have happened or not happened. We just don't know nor were told everything.

How would you interpret Revelation 20:1-2

"And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years."

Who is that old serpent?
 
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One God and Father of All

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You don't think that Satan was that serpent who tempted Eve?


You have way more human additions to this post, and you still don't think Satan is an angel.

None of your reasoning was even biblical, nor containing any Scripture to support what you wrote.

Some point to the verses about Lucifer, and reason that cannot be Satan. You did not even make that argument. Some false beliefs call both Satan and Jesus equal and angels. You are the first one I have ever heard of who denies Satan is an angel.

It is an assumption by humans to think that Adam told Eve not to touch the fruit. It would be an assumption to think that Eve herself could not eat. The command was that Adam could not eat. All could have happened or not happened. We just don't know nor were told everything.

How would you interpret Revelation 20:1-2

"And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years."

Who is that old serpent?
The only reason it is believed that the serpent was the devil or Satan in the garden is from the prophecy of Jesus. It is because the red dragon is said to be such.
Lucifer is spoken of the king of Babylon.
But there is a connection with the red dragon king of revelation and the serpent in the garden.
As I understand it, the serpent has come to represent the desires of the flesh which cause us to do all the evil there is in the world. The desire of the eyes, the desire of the flesh and the pride of life. All sin can be attributed to that.
 
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Timtofly

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Angels appear as men because man was made in their image. “Let us make man in our image”.

A son of God is one who is obedient to the will of God. The others are called “children of disobedience”.

Satan does not take on human form. The human form which is in disobedience of God is Satan(an adversary) or a devil.
This is so very wrong. Angels are created beings in the firmament.

Sons of God are humankind created on the 6th day.

Adam was a son of God because he was created in the Creator's image, Jesus as the Word made flesh. God would one day come in the image that He originally created humankind with. Read Genesis 5:1-3. You can see that because of Adam's disobedience, Seth was not a son of God, nor in the image of God. Seth was born in Adam's corruptible state, of dead sinful flesh.

"This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:"

Since when are we to read prophecy as a prediction of things that have past?

Revelation 20 is not a prediction. John is telling us who Satan is.
 
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Douggg

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That's the problem Doug, when you go down one rabbit hole, it creates a false notion elsewhere, you are correct, the Jews would never accept a Gentile as their king, but they chose 2 or 3 Jewish people 2000 years ago, Agreement is NOT about accepting a Messiah, its about Israel entering an Agreement and that Agreement will be them joining the E.U. The difference between you and I is I can prove my poinrs via scripture, you just throw something out there.
The covenant in Daniel 9:27 is not an agreement, but the Mt. Sinai covenant. It will be confirmed by the Antichrist in the method required by Moses in Deuteronomy 31:9-13. The for 7 years is in those verses.

Dan. 8:9 tells us the A.C. has to be born in Greece.

9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
"waxes exceeding great" doesn't necessarily means conquers - but heads south and east with a strong army. The little horn, following Gog/Magog, as the prince that come, will head south and east into the middle east with his EU army to act as peace keeper by occupying the region, in the wake of Gog/Magog.
 
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One God and Father of All

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This is so very wrong. Angels are created beings in the firmament.

Sons of God are humankind created on the 6th day.

Adam was a son of God because he was created in the Creator's image, Jesus as the Word made flesh. God would one day come in the image that He originally created humankind with. Read Genesis 5:1-3. You can see that because of Adam's disobedience, Seth was not a son of God, nor in the image of God. Seth was born in Adam's corruptible state, of dead sinful flesh.

"This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:"



Revelation 20 is not a prediction. John is telling us who Satan

This is so very wrong. Angels are created beings in the firmament.

Sons of God are humankind created on the 6th day.

Adam was a son of God because he was created in the Creator's image, Jesus as the Word made flesh. God would one day come in the image that He originally created humankind with. Read Genesis 5:1-3. You can see that because of Adam's disobedience, Seth was not a son of God, nor in the image of God. Seth was born in Adam's corruptible state, of dead sinful flesh.

"This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:"



Revelation 20 is not a prediction. John is telling us who Satan is.
Were you ever told there was a rebellion in heaven above among the angels which caused God to kick the bad ones out?
They told me Satan was the leader of this rebellion who drew many other angels with him.
Where did they get this idea?
 
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3 Resurrections

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if you think prophecy can be of past events I say you are incorrect. Perhaps you might want to consider that.
There are many things in Revelation that speak of past history. Do you need a list? Your definition of what it means to "prophesy" is limited. Prophecy is an utterance by divine inspiration. It may or may not contain information related to future events. Many times in the OT the prophet was giving God's rebuke in rehearsing the past sinful activity of His people, and reminding them of past judgements by God.

Some of the past events Revelation mentions:

The martyrdom death of Antipas.
The birth of the man-child, Christ Jesus, and His ascension to God's throne.
The past history of the Scarlet Beast when it "WAS" in existence.
The ancient history of the Sea Beast which had existed since the "lion" kingdom of Nebuchadnezzar.
All the past recorded activity of the 7 churches.
The past millennium which ended with Christ's "First resurrection".
The ten horns on the Sea Beast which included many past Roman emperors.
The group of dead souls under the altar begging for vengeance, which were the same as the "elect" dead Christ spoke of in the parable of the unjust judge who were pleading for vengeance.
Satan's war in heaven which concluded with Christ Jesus's ascension on His resurrection day when Satan was then cast out of heaven to earth.

This is only the tip of the iceberg. There are many, many more past historical events that Revelation brings up. These served as a background setting for the soon-coming events in John's future which he was also shown.
 
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Fisherking

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The covenant in Daniel 9:27 is not an agreement, but the Mt. Sinai covenant. It will be confirmed by the Antichrist in the method required by Moses in Deuteronomy 31:9-13. The for 7 years is in those verses.
SMH..............You have zero hope if you fall for that one brother.

"waxes exceeding great" doesn't necessarily means conquers - but heads south and east with a strong army. The little horn, following Gog/Magog, as the prince that come, will head south and east into the middle east with his EU army to act as peace keeper by occupying the region, in the wake of Gog/Magog.
That's EXACTLY what it means, Dan. 11:40-43 shows us that very battle. Gog & Magog have nothing to do with Armageddon. The E.U. leader will put the E.U. forth as a protectorate for Israel, join the E.U. Think man, why are we seeing them push for Ukraine, and Finland to join the E.U. now? This is what will drive Russia to come against Israel, they want their oil/gas reserves. Putin feels like he's being boxed in, by defeating Israel he would have a straight line to a port that is open to the world, through Iran and Turkey's alliance.
 
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One God and Father of All

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There are many things in Revelation that speak of past history. Do you need a list? Your definition of what it means to "prophesy" is limited. Prophecy is an utterance by divine inspiration. It may or may not contain information related to future events. Many times in the OT the prophet was giving God's rebuke in rehearsing the past sinful activity of His people, and reminding them of past judgements by God.

Some of the past events Revelation mentions:

The martyrdom death of Antipas.
The birth of the man-child, Christ Jesus, and His ascension to God's throne.
The past history of the Scarlet Beast when it "WAS" in existence.
The ancient history of the Sea Beast which had existed since the "lion" kingdom of Nebuchadnezzar.
All the past recorded activity of the 7 churches.
The past millennium which ended with Christ's "First resurrection".
The ten horns on the Sea Beast which included many past Roman emperors.
The group of dead souls under the altar begging for vengeance, which were the same as the "elect" dead Christ spoke of in the parable of the unjust judge who were pleading for vengeance.
Satan's war in heaven which concluded with Christ Jesus's ascension on His resurrection day when Satan was then cast out of heaven to earth.

This is only the tip of the iceberg. There are many, many more past historical events that Revelation brings up. These served as a background setting for the soon-coming events in John's future which he was also shown.
It’s prophecy. Prophecy can see things as they are, and predict how they will be. It’s not going to tell you of things that already occurred.
 
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One God and Father of All

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There are many things in Revelation that speak of past history. Do you need a list? Your definition of what it means to "prophesy" is limited. Prophecy is an utterance by divine inspiration. It may or may not contain information related to future events. Many times in the OT the prophet was giving God's rebuke in rehearsing the past sinful activity of His people, and reminding them of past judgements by God.

Some of the past events Revelation mentions:

The martyrdom death of Antipas.
The birth of the man-child, Christ Jesus, and His ascension to God's throne.
The past history of the Scarlet Beast when it "WAS" in existence.
The ancient history of the Sea Beast which had existed since the "lion" kingdom of Nebuchadnezzar.
All the past recorded activity of the 7 churches.
The past millennium which ended with Christ's "First resurrection".
The ten horns on the Sea Beast which included many past Roman emperors.
The group of dead souls under the altar begging for vengeance, which were the same as the "elect" dead Christ spoke of in the parable of the unjust judge who were pleading for vengeance.
Satan's war in heaven which concluded with Christ Jesus's ascension on His resurrection day when Satan was then cast out of heaven to earth.

This is only the tip of the iceberg. There are many, many more past historical events that Revelation brings up. These served as a background setting for the soon-coming events in John's future which he was also shown.
Here is where you were then, here is where you are now, and here is where you will be.
which one is prophecy?
 
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Timtofly

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Were you ever told there was a rebellion in heaven above among the angels which caused God to kick the bad ones out?
They told me Satan was the leader of this rebellion who drew many other angels with him.
Where did they get this idea?
Revelation 12:4

"And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth."

Jude 1:6

"And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

It would seem that God did not kick them out. Nor were they simply in rebellion. They left the firmament, as in protest, which made that an act of rebellion. And upon leaving they were immediately reserved in everlasting chains of darkness. They are still reserved in chains of darkness.

It is assumed they left when Satan informed God, he was no longer going to do what God asked. The difference is that Satan was not bound like they were. Just like in Revelation 20, Satan convinced a multitude to do something, and they were consumed by fire, but Satan was not. Does that make Satan a leader? Or was Satan created as a leader of the angels, and God kept letting Satan deceive humans after deceiving a third of the angels?

The only thing Revelation 20 does not call Satan is Lucifer or the son of the morning, a star. Isaiah 14:12-15

"How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit."

Satan is associated as the "king" of Babylon in Revelation 17.

"The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition."

This is the dragon / and the kingdoms of earth starting with Babylon. Satan is the beast.

"And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,"

No human king was ever cast out of heaven, but Satan was said to many times in Scripture. Luke 10:18

"And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven."

"And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit."

As opposed to this:

"And I saw an angel come down from heaven."
 
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Douggg

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SMH..............You have zero hope if you fall for that one brother.


That's EXACTLY what it means, Dan. 11:40-43 shows us that very battle. Gog & Magog have nothing to do with Armageddon. The E.U. leader will put the E.U. forth as a protectorate for Israel, join the E.U. Think man, why are we seeing them push for Ukraine, and Finland to join the E.U. now? This is what will drive Russia to come against Israel, they want their oil/gas reserves. Putin feels like he's being boxed in, by defeating Israel he would have a straight line to a port that is open to the world, through Iran and Turkey's alliance.
Daniel 11:40-45 is at the end of the 7 years. Gog/Magog is right before the 7 years begin.

Gog/Magog, Ezekiel 39:1-7.
then the prince who shall come of Daniel 9:26, i.e. the little horn of Daniel 8:9.
then anointed the King of Israel messiah becoming the Antichrist and confirms the Mt Sinai covenant starting the 7 year cycle.
then at the end of the 7 years, the prelude to Armageddon, Daniel 11:40-45.
then Armageddon, Ezekiel 39:17-20.
then Jesus's Second Coming, Ezekiel 39:21-29
 
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Now we beseech you brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him, that ye be not troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of the Lord is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what with-holdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way, and then shall that wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the Spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming: even him whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.


2 Thessalonians 2:1-10


The above verses are perhaps, alongside Daniel 7 and Revelation 13, the most significant texts in the entire word of God as to revealing the identity of the Antichrist of scripture. When reading Daniel 7 and Revelation 13, and in contemplating the above, the reader cannot help but be impressed with the detail and amount of information given regarding the nature, the thoughts, beliefs and practices of this entity who from the beginnings of the Christian faith to the present time, has shed such a dark forbidding cloud over the true church. In these few short verses the apostle Paul has given his readers a clear and unambiguous signpost pointing directly to the rise of the man of sin, the son perdition. A signpost that he first revealed to the Thessalonian church in person, and reaffirmed in this letter. Bible scholars for centuries have agreed that the reason Paul was less than forthcoming in his letter in naming the ‘restrainer’ directly as he is commonly known, was because there was a very real danger involved in so doing.

So once the Thessalonians learned who this 'retainer' was, I think it obvious that such information would be shared not only with other churches and Christians outside of Thessalonica, but information that would be handed down through the generations following, with those knowing this truth looking forward to witnessing the fall, withdrawal, or removal of this entity. How can we know who it was Paul was warning about? This is the entity whose removal would introduce the Antichrist. So let us ask those who Paul spoke to, or at least those who kept that information and informed others.


That danger coming from the restrainer himself, the Roman pagan empire who ruled the then known world at that time, and who, if upon reading this letter and realizing that Paul was here saying that their power was about to be swept away to make way for another, Paul would have been immediately arrested and charged, tried, and executed for sedition. Also, because the Thessalonians already knew who Paul was talking about, it was not necessary for Paul to risk naming Rome again.


Practically all the early commentators and church fathers were unanimous in their belief that Paul was referring to the empire of Rome in general, and to the emperors in particular. Let me provide a few quotes from those early church statesmen from their comments on this matter.


Let me start with Tertullian (160-240 A. D.):


“‘For the mystery of iniquity doth already work; only he who now hinders must hinder,


until he be taken out of the way.’ What obstacle is there but the Roman state, the falling


away of which, by being scattered into ten kingdoms, shall introduce Antichrist upon (its


own ruins)? ‘And then shall be revealed the wicked one.” “On the Resurrection of the


Flesh,” chapter 24; Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. III, p. 563


(Author: There is some debate as to whether the ‘falling away’ referred to here is in reference to the empire, or the church. Some say one, some the other, while some would contend that it can apply equally to both. Either way, Tertullian was certain in his belief that the restrainer was the Roman Empire. That it was Rome itself that inhibited in some way the rise of the antichrist. This was generally accepted throughout the church at that time, and it was common for the church to pray to God that He would keep the Roman power intact in order to keep the antichrist to coming to power in their time. Interesting also is Tertullian’s reference to the ten kingdoms that would result from the break up of Rome. This is a direct reference to Daniel 7 and the ten horns that would grow from the 4th beast, Rome. The Antichrist, according to Bible scholars, was the 11th horn. Tertullian was using the historicist method of prophetic interpretation, that method which viewed prophecy as an historical unfolding throughout history from the time the prophecy was first given, and culminating at the second coming. This is significant when understanding Paul’s letter, because Paul is clear that the Antichrist would appear as soon as Rome moves aside, and that very same Antichrist would still be there to be judged at the second coming. Not futurist, not preterist, but a historicist approach, just like Tertullian.)


In yet another comment, Tertullian states: “The very end of all things threatening dreadful woes is only retarded by the continued existence of the Roman Empire.”


(“Apology,” chapter 32; Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. III, p. 43).


A little later Lactantius,. in the early fourth century wrote: “The subject itself declares that the fall and ruin of the world will shortly take place; except that while the city of Rome remains, it appears that nothing of this kind is to be feared. But when that capital of the world shall have fallen, and shall have begun to be a street, which the Sibyls say shall come to pass, who can doubt that the end has now arrived to the affairs of men and the whole world? It is that city, that only, which still sustains all things.” (“The Divine Institutes,” book 7, chapter 25; Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. VII, p. 220).


Also early in the fourth century Cyril of Jerusalem (318-386 A. D.)had this to say: “But this aforesaid Antichrist is to come when the times of the Roman Empire shall have been fulfilled, and the end of the world is drawing near. There shall rise up together ten kings of the Romans, reigning in different parts perhaps, but all about the same time; and after those an eleventh, the Antichrist, who by his magical craft shall seize upon the Roman power; and of the kings who reigned before him, ‘three he shall humble,’ and the remaining seven he shall keep in subjection to himself.” (Catechetical Lectures,” section 15, on II Thessalonians 2:4; Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, vol. VII, p. 108 [New York: The Christian Literature Company, 1895]).


(Author: Much could be said about this quote; he also is clearly linking the prophecy of Daniel to the text of Paul’s, agreeing with other eminent writers of his time that out of Rome would evolve ten kings, 3 of whom the antichrist would subdue. When the restrainer, Rome, was to be taken out of the way, and the horns of Daniel 7 arise, the antichrist would be revealed.)


Now I would present the testimony of Ambrose (died in 398): “After the falling or decay of the Roman Empire, Antichrist shall appear.” (Quoted in, Bishop Thomas Newton,


Dissertations on the Prophecies, p. 463)……


….and Chrysostom (died in 407): “When the Roman Empire is taken out of the way, then he [the Antichrist] shall come. And naturally. For as long as the fear of this empire lasts, no one will willingly exalt himself, but when that is dissolved, he will attack the anarchy, and endeavor to seize upon the government both of man and of God.”


“Homily IV on 2 Thessalonians 2:6-9,” Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, vol. XIII, p. 389


[New York: Charles Scribner’s and Sons, 1905]…..


…and finally Jerome (died 420): “He that letteth is taken out of the way, and yet we do not realize that Antichrist is near.”


(Letter to Ageruchia, written about 409A. D. Letter 123, section 16; Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, vol. VI, p. 236


Jerome’s testimony is interesting. He admits and agrees with other early church fathers of his era that Rome was the restrainer, and had been removed in his (Jerome’s) lifetime. Yet it had not yet been made apparent who the power was that could definitively be called the Antichrist. Why? Because from Jerome’s perspective, he could not see all the signs of the Antichrist’s coming, as they had yet to be revealed in history. The capital of the empire had been removed to Constantinople, and the Gothic barbarian kings* were already well entrenched in ongoing battles and wars to decide who would rule over the territories not long since vacated by Rome, but the three horns to be subdued were still in power. When they were subdued, it would then be known by whose power they were done away, and the identity of Antichrist would be revealed.


I think it would be very helpful if I here provided a quote from the eminent Catholic historian, Cardinal Manning.


“Now the abandonment of Rome was the liberation of the pontiffs. Whatsoever claims to obedience the emperors may have made, and whatsoever compliance the Pontiff may have yielded, the whole previous relation, anomalous, and annulled again and again by the vices and outrages of the emperors, was finally dissolved by a higher power. The providence of God permitted a succession of irruptions, Gothic, Lombard, and Hungarian, to desolate Italy, and to efface from it every remnant of the empire.


The pontiffs found themselves alone, the sole fountains of order, peace, law, and safety. And from the hour of this providential liberation, when, by a divine intervention, the chains fell off from the hands of the successor of St. Peter, as once before from his own, no sovereign has ever reigned in Rome except the Vicar of Jesus Christ.”


(Henry Edward Manning, The Temporal Power of The Vicar of Jesus Christ, Preface, pp. xxviii, xxix. London: Burns and Lambert, 1862).


Manning has clearly given an excellent summary of history which directly correlates with the prophecies of Daniel and Paul. While attributing the fall of Rome to God and the rise of the papacy to Him also, Manning seems oblivious to the fact that he is revealing the perfect fulfillment of the prophecy of Paul and Daniel. That when Rome fell, the ten nations arose, three were subdued, and the ultimate victor was the papacy! It was the papacy itself that the empire of Rome was restraining. It was the papacy that arose after the establishment of the ten horns. It was the papacy that had a major role in the subjugation of the 3 horns because being Arian in belief they were directly opposed to the rule of the pontiffs. It will be the papacy that will still be here at the second coming. Therefore it is the papacy which perfectly fulfils the criteria demanded of it in order to be identified as the Antichrist. And that my friends are precisely the reasons all non-Roman Bible commentators from the time of the 6th century on were almost unanimous in identifying the papacy as the man of sin. The power who entered the church (the temple of God) and by claiming the power to forgive sin, and shut out of heaven whom he will, and claiming universal spiritual and temporal authority over all the earth, thus claiming the prerogatives of God, “opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.”


* The ten kings who vied for power as the Roman Empire disintegrated before them and from which 7 nations of modern Europe can trace their descent are known by most historians as being the Anglo-Saxons (Britain), the Allamanni (Germany), the Franks (France), the Lombards (first around the Danube then Italy), Visigoths (Spain), Burgundians (Burgundy/Switzerland)) and the Suevi (Portugal).


These seven of the ten Barbarian kingdoms were converted to Christianity and submitted to the authority of the Bishop of Rome. However, three of the kingdoms converted to Christianity but embraced the heretical teachings of Arius. Arius (who was presbyter in Alexandria around the year 320 A. D.) taught that ‘Christ was created out of nothing as the first and greatest of all creatures’, very similar to Jehovah Witness teachings of today. The teachings of Arius were condemned in two great church councils, Nicea (325 A. D.) and Constantinople (381 A. D.). These three Arian kingdoms were a threat to the supremacy of the Bishop of Rome [later called the Pope]. To make a long story short, these three kingdoms eventually were uprooted by the imperial power acting under the influence of the Bishop of Rome. The Ostrogoths (originally from Yugoslavia), by order of the emperor, dealt the heretical Heruli a devastating defeat in 493 A. D.


It happened like this: The Pope requested the emperor to do something about the unorthodox Heruli. In response, the emperor sent Theodoric, king of the Ostrogoths to do


battle with Odoacer, king of the Heruli. Odoacer was slain by Theodoric and the Heruli disappeared from history. Then the Vandals were crushed (in 534 A. D.) by Belisarius, general of emperor Justinian’s armies. But there was one remaining horn which needed to be uprooted, and it was the most formidable of all: the Ostrogoths. After the Ostrogoths conquered the Heruli, they became extremely powerful. They were also Arians, so the Bishop of Rome [the Pope] implored Justinian to uproot the Ostrogoths. There were several battles between Belisarius and the Ostrogoths. The decisive battle, however, was in February of the year 538. The armies of Justinian, as well as the ravages of disease, decimated the armies of the Ostrogoths, they were expelled from Rome and in short order, disappeared from the historical scene in Europe.


There is some debate as to why the operations of the little horn should be restricted to the western hemisphere of the old Roman territories. The eastern portion of that empire was eventually taken by Islam, so the question is often asked, why cannot Islam be the Antichrist? I think that the following quote from the eminent Bible scholar and historian Sir Isaac Newton asa quoted by Thomas Newton, gives the answer.


“Antichrist, then (as the Fathers delight to call him), or the little horn, is to be sought among the ten kingdoms of the western Roman Empire. I say of the western Roman Empire, because that was properly the body of the fourth beast; Greece, and the countries which lay eastward of Italy belonged to the third beast; for the former beasts were still subsisting, though their dominion was taken away. ‘As concerning the rest of the beasts,’ saith Daniel, ‘they had their dominion taken away; yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.’ Daniel 7:12. ‘And therefore,’ as Sir Isaac Newton rightly infers, ‘all four beasts are still alive, though the dominion of the three first be taken away. The nations of Chaldea and Assyria are still the first beast. Those of Media and Persia are still the second beast. Those of Macedon, Greece and Thrace, Asia Minor, Syria, and Egypt, are still the third. And those of Europe, on this side of Greece, are still the fourth. Seeing therefore the body of the third beast is confined to the nations on this side the river Euphrates, and the body of the fourth beast is confined to the nations on this side of Greece; we are to look for all the four heads of the third beast among the nations on this side the river Euphrates; and for all the eleven horns of the fourth beast, among the nations on this side of Greece.” (Thomas Newton, Dissertations on the Prophecies, pp. 239, 240).


KJV Acts 20:28-31

28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

30 perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.



KJV 1 Timothy 4:1

1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;


KJV Matthew 7:15

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.


KJV John 16:1-3

1 These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.

2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.
 
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It’s prophecy. Prophecy can see things as they are, and predict how they will be. It’s not going to tell you of things that already occurred.

Here you go...a different sense of the word prophecy than the rather limited meaning you are trying to give it. 1 Chronicles 25:1 tells us, "Moreover David and the captains of the host separated to the service of the sons of Asaph, and of Heman, and of Jeduthun, who should prophesy with harps, with psalteries, and with cymbals." This was prophesying with the use of musical instruments.

I Chronicles 25:3 goes on to list the sons of Jeduthun, six of them, "under the hands of their father Jeduthun, who prophesied with a harp, to give thanks and to praise the Lord." There is no mention whatever of predicting future events in this prophesying. The main purpose of prophecy here was to glorify God by giving Him thanks and praise, accompanied by the harp.

I think you need to adjust the way you are choosing to limit the definition of the word prophecy. It does not always include predictions of the future.
 
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