He Gets Us campaign

Clare73 said:

Surely you are more Biblically informed than that.

Submit because it is the law of the land (Ro 13:-2).

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Do you know this very chapter was used to justify apartheid in South Africa?

QvQ said:

And there is only one power that can cure those ills. Only God can cure the ills according to His will.
Jesus was poor.
Sola Fide
Jesus is God. By having Faith in God through Jesus Christ our Lord, all things will be added unto us.

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I'm really not sure what I'm supposed to understand with the response you provided? I cant see the attachment either?

Rose_bud said:

I'm really not sure what I'm supposed to understand with the response you provided? I cant see the attachment either?

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Poverty is not rooted in sin. The wicked prosper and many a good man has been poor.
Jesus was poor.

Karma is the doctrine of reward for "righteous behavior."
It is refuted in the Bible, especially in the Book of Job.

Sola Fide is Faith alone.
All of man's righteousness avails him nothing if he believes he is the author of his own salvation through his 'righteousness."
"Pleasing to God" is the love of God and is a gift from God.

I had to delete the post as the "attachment" showed up. I have no idea what it was or how it got there.

QvQ said:

Poverty is not rooted in sin. The wicked prosper and many a good man has been poor.
Jesus was poor.

Karma is the doctrine of reward for "righteous behavior."
It is refuted in the Bible, especially in the Book of Job.

Sola Fide is Faith alone.
All of man's righteousness avails him nothing if he believes he is the author of his own salvation through his 'righteousness." "Pleasing to God" is the love of God and is a gift from God.

I had to delete the post as the "attachment" showed up. I have no idea what it was or how it got there.

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Thank you, I think I understand what you are saying now.
And most likely we will still disagree on a few things, but let me state what I was saying a bit better. Sin made us poor in all areas, causing a lack in how we relate to God and each other (that is what I mean by rooted in sin).

I don't believe in Karma, I believe that God wants us to act righteously. In Hebrew thought that meant to walk upright or walk a straight path. We know we are able to do this because of Christ who is our righteousness.

I don't believe in a works salvation, i.e.. we don't care and help others to earn our salvation, we do so because it is the "right" thing to do.. (play on words). It has nothing to do with saying, God see this I helped this poor person, give me credit for it. Pleasing God is loving God AND loving others. Faith is trusting that He empowers us to do so, so that He is glorified.

No problem with the attachment I couldn't see what it was saying anyway.. I asked because I thought you may have wanted me to see something.

Halbhh said:

Yes!

So, when we see people from groups we've personally become a bit alienated from, such as for example (maybe not for you or me, but sometimes for some)... consider (as one of the examples in the super bowl advertisement) where someone is loving towards an illegal immigrant from the southern border for example...then at that moment God might bless us with guilt if we deserve guilt, and we have a chance to repent, so that we stop seeing them as unworthy of love, and start loving them, with actions that come from love. For a lost person, they can suddenly want to repent and turn to Christ, because the ad clearly conveys that this teaching to love all others is from Christ.

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People focus on love while there are other attributes that God wants us to imitate in addition to love. For example, in the Old Testament God tells us if a poor man steals, we are to execute judgement on them and not pity them (Deut 19). Paul tells us in 2 Thess 3:10 that if a person is not willing to work, he should not eat. If a man murders another, he should be executed. On and on. These commands of God also show love, love for society and order.

How many Superbowl ads will we see demonstrating these commands? How about telling someone that they are under God's wrath and judgement and the good news is Jesus Christ? That would be much more effective.

Washing peoples feet and these ads convey nothing. It makes unbelievers smirk at foolish Christians all the while Christians think they're doing something noble for God.

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Rose_bud said:

Do you know this very chapter was used to justify apartheid in South Africa?

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Slavery (buying, selling and use of slaves) is not immoral (Lev 25:44-46).
Man stealing is immoral.

HarleyER said:

People focus on love while there are other attributes that God wants us to imitate in addition to love.

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Yes, people can do that.

We don't say that "Love is the answer." as if love will excuse other evils we might do.

We say that "Christ is the answer."
And we know that He teaches us the way of a more full more perfect love.

Christ said that His sheep will listen to His words and follow Him.

That's not picking and choosing -- those who enter heaven will be those who are generally doing as He said we must do....


So, for the lost, and for all of us at some point, first we must realize we've done wrong, and then to turn to God in repentance.

Christ didn't come to condemn sinners, but to call us to repentance and save us from the death we deserve.

Clare73 said:

Slavery (buying, selling and use of slaves) is not immoral (Lev 25:44-46).
Man stealing is immoral.

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Hey there

... Would you buy and sell slaves or do you condone that others do so?

HarleyER said:

People focus on love while there are other attributes that God wants us to imitate in addition to love. For example, in the Old Testament God tells us if a poor man steals, we are to execute judgement on them and not pity them (Deut 19). Paul tells us in 2 Thess 3:10 that if a person is not willing to work, he should not eat. If a man murders another, he should be executed. On and on. These commands of God also show love, love for society and order.

How many Superbowl ads will we see demonstrating these commands? How about telling someone that they are under God's wrath and judgement and the good news is Jesus Christ? That would be much more effective.

Washing peoples feet and these ads convey nothing. It makes unbelievers smirk at foolish Christians all the while Christians think they're doing something noble for God.

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So, why is it that when Paul quoted scripture from the Old Testament that pertained to "execution" when he was reprimanding and directing the Corinthians, Paul didn't say they needed to "execute" the individual among them who was sleeping with is step-mom, but 'merely' to ex-communicate him from the church for as long as it took for him to come to his senses?

Some of you fundamentalists misinterpret the Bible and take the meaning in an ultra-literal way at all times. That's not a sign of faith. That's a sign of a need for better education.

2PhiloVoid said:

So, why is it that when Paul quoted scripture from the Old Testament that pertained to "execution"

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Idolatry was always punished with execution.
Sexual immorality (1 Co 5) is not idolatry.

Are you handling the Scriptures loosely?

I believe the condition of slavery varied much more during the Roman Empire than in America during colonial & pre civil war times. Slavery is always wrong but during the time of Christ it was much more individualized rather than a whole bloc of people by their race. It was probably a necessary evil for society to function overall.

Slavery for the Hebrews under the Egyptians was probably more similar to American slavery. Blacks were singled out for it just like the Hebrews were. Both situations upheld a social order at the expense of one group of people. Moses saying, “let my people go” was applicable to America than to the situation in the Roman Empire. The great majority of Americans were not slave holders despite the horrible institution itself.

Clare73 said:

Idolatry was always punished with execution.
Sexual immorality (1 Co 5) is not idolatry.

Are you handling the Scriptures loosely?

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Or, was Paul handling Scripture loosely? Did you bother to read the text closely and see what he was quoting and.............. find out how it was used and what it referred to in the Old Testament?

No. No, you didn't.

Lukaris said:

I believe the condition of slavery varied much more during the Roman Empire than in America during colonial & pre civil war times. Slavery is always wrong but during the time of Christ it was much more individualized rather than a whole bloc of people by their race. It was probably a necessary evil for society to function overall.

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Scripture does not present slavery as immoral (Lev 25:44-46, Eph 6:5, 1 Ti 6:1, Tit 2:9, 1 Pe 2:19).

Scripture, not soceity, is my authority.

2PhiloVoid said:

Some of you fundamentalists misinterpret the Bible and take the meaning in an ultra-literal way at all times. That's not a sign of faith. That's a sign of a need for better education.

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Which parts of the Bible should an "educated" person not take literally?

2PhiloVoid said:

So, why is it that when Paul quoted scripture from the Old Testament that pertained to "execution" when he was reprimanding and directing the Corinthians, Paul didn't say they needed to "execute" the individual among them who was sleeping with is step-mom, but 'merely' to ex-communicate him from the church for as long as it took for him to come to his senses?

Some of you fundamentalists misinterpret the Bible and take the meaning in an ultra-literal way at all times. That's not a sign of faith. That's a sign of a need for better education.

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I'd suppose you would say that was very unkind of Paul to ex-communicate him. Perhaps all he needed was his feet washed.

I'll stand by my reasoning.

QvQ said:

Which parts of the Bible should an "educated" person not take literally?

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That depends on the hermeneutical and exegetical analyses (plural).......

For instance, if by "literal" we define the idea that what we think we read in the Bible sentence by sentence is exactly what it means at all points, and we do so without realizing the need for deeper study, or discernment using our rational minds that God has given us, or discussion among Christians, or historical and literary study, then we'll end up interpreting bits and pieces of the biblical text incorrectly or asserting we know what they mean when, perhaps, we really don't. We might also be tempted to make up terms to describe what it is we think we read in the Bible that the biblical writers themselves didn't exactly have in mind as their original meaning.

As for being educated, that state of mind doesn't guarantee anything either, but it often helps us realize what the biblical texts probably can't mean or don't mean. It might also help us be aware that we may not have enough evidence for our interpretations, which in turn can help us realize we might misapply some scripture if we're not careful.

HarleyER said:

I'd suppose you would say that was very unkind of Paul to ex-communicate him. Perhaps all he needed was his feet washed.

I'll stand by my reasoning.

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Why would I say that? I wouldn't at all say that was unkind of Paul. Church discipline does, at times, need to be applied and the Corinthians failed to do so.

Of course, we all know the Corinthians, like many of us Americans, were living in a morally disruptive culture. It was also not a very loving culture, either.

And I, too, will stand by my reasoning. I'll also stand by my education and that of hundreds of other Christians who have helped me to be better educated about the Bible over the years. I owe them my undying gratitude where it is appropriate and due.

Clare73 said:

And I would answer your question with: Context shows that his meaning is "not as (just) a slave, but (also) as a brother."

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RDKirk said:

You added words to the scripture. The "just" and "also" totally change the meaning...and ARE NOT THERE.

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"not as a homosexual, but as a human being"
"not (just) as a homosexual, but also as a human being"

Seems to be saying the same thing to me - just with a little more emphasis. Just sayin...

Clare73 said:

Scripture does not present slavery as immoral (Lev 25:44-46).

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It has ceased to exist as an institution for any necessary reason and is now criminal. Society had slavery when St. Paul wrote Romans 13:1-14 and has officially abolished it and it has no validity in light of Romans 13:1-14 in present society.