Recent content by Judson

if there is no works principle in the mosaic, that raises a lot questions for me: why doesnt the covenant save ALL who are members of it? what does that say about the promises of God? why is the mosaic administration repudiated in the new covenant if it encapsulated the fullness of God's...

so it's possible, then, to be members yet not receive the sign and seal?

i know presbys would say that baptism is the induction rite into the visible church (israel), which ppl consider the external administration of the covenant of grace. my issue is that this would make baptism have an efficacy that is foreign to protestant thought. but perhaps my logic is off

A question for my Presbyterian brothers: If the children of believers are viewed as in the covenant, is this the case with all Christians, including credobaptists? Or, do you believe that infant baptism is that rite that places an infant into the covenant? Thanks

Thanks for that clarifying post, but I have more questions! The link you make between the sign and the word was helpful. I'll drop my Jewettesque interpretations for now. They were only suggestions in light of what seems untenable in the Reformed position, that is, if the sign meant external...

Hi Ken, we going in circles somewhat, but the issues are important and can be fleshed out if we keep to the right categories. The obvious question is: How is the sign administered? through circumcision. (Of course, I'm speaking of Abrahamic circumcision, properly practiced according to...

Not exactly. I can accept that the covenant sign was commanded to be given by all. I'm just not sure it all means the same thing to the recipients and to God. The second point, I think it has something to do with the covenant community, but it is nuanced and requires differentiation. The...

Hedrick, I see things the way you do Brother. I'm just reasoning with the categories provided by Presbyterian covenant theology and reaching ultimate conclusions, which I find problematic, just like you do. If it's true that "there's some flexibility in terms of ancestry" then that's a major...

The covenant sign is not Israelite, it is Abrahamic. And Ishmael's descendants belong to that ancestral fold. Reformed theology DOES teach, as far as I know, that Ishmael IS visibly admitted into Abraham's covenant. The inconsistency, ironically, is that the Reformed don't include his...

Hi Ken, It looks like my posts are causing misunderstanding. I'm not launching the typical Baptist charge that paedobaptists are baptismal regenerationists or anything like that. I do not claim that you believe that the signs effect anything, or that covenant theology teaches anything of the...

My point exactly, I agree. If I understand Reformed (paedobaptist) covenant theology correctly, all of Abraham's household are commanded to bear the visible administration of the covenant, although they may not be participants of what the covenant conveys spiritually. I can understand the...

Hi Ken, in continuing to discuss Ishmael, I'd like to probe this: If Ishmael is in Abraham's covenant, then at what point did Ishmael's descendants (Arabs) fall out of the covenant? If the covenant membership comes down the family line, as covenant theology teaches so firmly, then it's not...

Hi Ken, in continuing to discuss Ishmael, I'd like to probe this: If Ishmael is in Abraham's covenant, then at what point did Ishmael's descendants (Arabs) fall out of the covenant? If the covenant membership comes down the family line, as covenant theology teaches so firmly, then it's not...

Hey Ken, sorry about that last, rather poorly written post. Ok, so I'm grasping your point which you patiently wrote and rewrote, "Circumcision is a physical sign that illustrates a spiritual promise, to be God to Abraham, his children, and his children's children. (Gen 17:7)." What I...

Ken, you know a lot about this topic! I'm liking this - it's very productive and enlightening. There's tons we agree with. Let me try to narrow down my issues and get us back to the simple stuff. There are two routes: If circumcision doesn't say anything definitive about the status of the...