I am not ashamed of the gospel...

[New Testament Christian]

How am I back loading works,? They don't save they are fruit.

You dont understand Guojing's point. He believes the book of James is for JEWISH CHRISTIANS ONLY. He thinks it is not the gospel of Paul. Guojing doesn't know what he is talking about.

 

[renniks]

Do lost people who want to be saved have the Holy Spirit?

They don't ," have" the spirit but they are convicted by him.

 

[New Testament Christian]

They don't ," have" the spirit but they are convicted by him.

How?

 

[New Testament Christian]

They don't ," have" the spirit but they are convicted by him.

I know how the Holy Spirit works to save the lost.

I want to know what you mean when you say the lost are convicted by the Spirit. What do you believe

 

[Guojing]

How am I back loading works,? They don't save they are fruit.

You believe faith without works = dead faith

You also believe dead faith = cannot save

By the rules of logic, you are believing that

faith without works = cannot save.

 

[Guojing]

You dont understand Guojing's point. He believes the book of James is for JEWISH CHRISTIANS ONLY. He thinks it is not the gospel of Paul. Guojing doesn't know what he is talking about.

The term "Jewish Christians" is an oxymoron.

What does James 1:1 specifically says who the audience he is writing to?

Do you know who are the 12 tribes?

Do you know when are gentile believers called Christians in the book of Acts?
Acts 11:26

 

[New Testament Christian]

The term "Jewish Christians" is an oxymoron.

What does James 1:1 specifically says who the audience he is writing to?

Do you know who are the 12 tribes?

Do you know when are gentile believers called Christians in the book of Acts?
Acts 11:26

The term "Jewish Christians" is an oxymoron.

What does James 1:1 specifically says who the audience he is writing to?

Do you know who are the 12 tribes?

Do you know when are gentile believers called Christians in the book of Acts?
Acts 11:26[/QUOTE

By jewish christians I only mean their ancestry.

Asian becomes a christian = asian christian

European becomes a chirstian= european christian

Arab becomes christian = arab christian

The chosen people of God, Hebrews, Isrealites, jews in the old testament are now seperated from God unless they become christians.

I wonder if you have a superiority complex?
You're back to being the Interrogator.
Maybe you think you are not supposed to answer, what you perceive as a fool, Proverbs 26:4-5.

I know James is speaking to his physical brethren as well as spiritual brethren in James.

I know there is one gospel of Jesus Christ for Jew and Gentile.

I know that gospel applies to gentiles even when it is being spoken to Jews.
BECAUSE ALL ARE SUBJECT TO THE LAW OF CHRIST,
James 1:25
But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it and is not a forgetful hearer but a DOER OF THE WORK, this one will be blessed in what he does.

What law is perfect and liberates us from sin?

The law of Jesus Christ,
Galatians 6:2
Bear one another's burdens and so fullfil the law of Christ.

 

[Guojing]

I know James is speaking to his physical brethren as well as spiritual brethren in James.

If you want to read that from James 1:1, when it clearly indicates that he is addressing the 12 tribes of Israel, that is your choice.

 

[New Testament Christian]

You believe faith without works = dead faith

You also believe dead faith = cannot save

By the rules of logic, you are believing that

faith without works = cannot save.

Guojing. You have come to the correct conclusion.

Unfortunately renniks, logic is flawed.

He believes that genuine faith must have works.

But he doesn't understand that he is trying to be saved by a dead faith. He does not realize his faith with no works is dead.

 

[New Testament Christian]

If you want to read that from James 1:1, when it clearly indicates that he is addressing the 12 tribes of Israel, that is your choice.

Do you not know that the audience of James are christians? That makes them physical and spiritual brethren.

James 1:25 is referring to the law of Christ. Not the law of Moses. Proof these Jews are Christians.

 

[New Testament Christian]

You believe faith without works = dead faith

You also believe dead faith = cannot save

By the rules of logic, you are believing that

faith without works = cannot save.

Also the reverse is true.

If you believe the gospel has no works to be saved.
And you believe if works are required, then salvation must come by merit.
And if any or all kinds of works are essential to be saved they must therefore all be meritorious in nature.

Then the logical conclusion is, every kind of work done by the christian after salvation is meritorious.

Therefore every time you do a work of righteousness Guojing, you are earning your salvation.

 

[Guojing]

Also the reverse is true.

If you believe the gospel has no works to be saved.
And you believe if works are required, then salvation must come by merit.
And if any or all kinds of works are essential to be saved they must therefore all be meritorious in nature.

Then the logical conclusion is, every kind of work done by the christian after salvation is meritorious.

Therefore every time you do a work of righteousness Guojing, you are earning your salvation.

As I stated, I believe salvation is by faith apart from works (Romans 4:5)

 

[Guojing]

Do you not know that the audience of James are christians? That makes them physical and spiritual brethren.

James 1:25 is referring to the law of Christ. Not the law of Moses. Proof these Jews are Christians.

The 12 tribes are Israel. Scripture never call the 12 tribes as Christians.

 

[renniks]

You believe faith without works = dead faith

You also believe dead faith = cannot save

By the rules of logic, you are believing that

faith without works = cannot save.

Ok let me ask you a question. What is getting saved supposed to do to a person? Can a person be truly saved and not change in any way? Scripture says all things are made new. Does this mean if a person, being made new, does new things like reading his Bible or praying or being a better person overall, that those things that changed in his life save him? I don't see it. God saved him and because God did that work, the Holy Spirit begins to change his life.

 

[renniks]

I know how the Holy Spirit works to save the lost.

I want to know what you mean when you say the lost are convicted by the Spirit. What do you believe

I'm supposed to evaluate how the Spirit works on sinner's hearts? That's above my pay grade. The Spirit moves as he will, no one can comprehend it. It's like trying to apply science to miracles. Just don't go there.

 

[renniks]

Also the reverse is true.

If you believe the gospel has no works to be saved.
And you believe if works are required, then salvation must come by merit.
And if any or all kinds of works are essential to be saved they must therefore all be meritorious in nature.

Then the logical conclusion is, every kind of work done by the christian after salvation is meritorious.

Therefore every time you do a work of righteousness Guojing, you are earning your salvation.

Um, no.
All your good deeds are filthy rags.

 

[New Testament Christian]

The 12 tribes are Israel. Scripture never call the 12

Guojing,
Well, obviously. But in those 12 tribes are Jews who have believed in Christ. These christian jews are who James who is also a christian jew is addressing.

So, if that is the way you want to interpret it. Then you are ignoring this fact.

James is clearly teaching christians in James. Because he is teaching the gospel of Jesus Christ, James 1:25.

James is not teaching the law of Moses anywhere in his epistle.

So if that is the way you want to view it. That's your choice. But as long as you do, you're mistaken.

 

[New Testament Christian]

Um, no.
All your good deeds are filthy rags.

Well, if you are a logical thinking person with an honest heart. Yes.

 

[New Testament Christian]

I'm supposed to evaluate how the Spirit works on sinner's hearts? That's above my pay grade. The Spirit moves as he will, no one can comprehend it. It's like trying to apply science to miracles. Just don't go there.

You just proved you don't know how the Holy Spirit convicts sinners.

Which you have made clear to me already, when you said Paul could not obey God without the Holy Spirit working on Paul directly. You have the Holy Spirit obeying God for Paul. Therefore God is obeying the gospel for Paul. Paul is not obeying the gospel, as you said he cannot do anything on his own.

 

[New Testament Christian]

Um, no.
All your good deeds are filthy rags.

Ok,
So, you think when you do good works for God.
God looks at your obedience to His commandments as filthy rags? God must not love you renniks.

When I do obedient works God loves me for it and blesses me. After all God created us for good works, Epheasians 2:10.

Isaiah 64:6
But we are like an unclean thing, And all our righteousness are like filthy rags: we all fade as a leaf, and our sins, like the wind, HAVE TAKEN US AWAY.

Hmmm, You know those who are seperated from God are unclean. Why?
Because their sins have not been removed by God.

Why are these Hebrews unclean? Because they are living in sin. They must be rebelling against God.
Otherwise, they would not be unclean!!!

These unclean jews righteousness are like filthy rags to God.
Can a unclean rebellious sinner be righteous? Not if they continue to rebel against their God, as they are doing here.

So, what kind of righteousness are these unclean jews practicing?
Well, what kind of righteousness do all rebellious sinners practise?
Maybe? SELF-RIGHTEOUSNESS!!!!

Would self- righteousness be as filthy rags to God?
Would works man does for himself instead of for God be as filthy rags to God?

Why yes, those kind of works, the works of self-righteous man, not the works of God are as filthy rags to God.

renniks ,you should read the book of Isaiah. It would do you a world of good.

Same chapter 64:4-7
For since the beginning of the world Men have not heard nor perceived by the ear, Nor has the eye seen any God besides you,

Who acts for the one who waits for Him.

You meet him who rejoices and DOES RIGHTEOUSNESS, who REMEBERS YOU IN YOUR WAYS.

YOU ARE INDEED ANGRY, ANGRY, ANGRY, FOR WE HAVE SINNED, SINNED, SINNED-
IN THESE WAYS WE CONTINUE, CONTINUE, CONTINUE,;

AND WE NEED TO BE SAVED, SAVED, SAVED, SAVED,

BUT WE ARE ALL LIKE AN UNCLEAN THING,
AND ALL, ALL, ALL, OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS ARE LIKE FILTHY RAGS:
We all fade as a leaf,
And our SINS, SINS, SINS, LIKE THE WIND,
HAVE TAKEN US AWAY, AWAY, AWAY.

AND THERE IS NO ONE, NO ONE, NO ONE, WHO CALLS ON YOUR NAME
who stirs himself up to take hold of You;
FOR YOU HAVE HIDDEN YOUR FACE FROM US
AND HAVE CONSUMED US BECAUSE OF OUR SINS.

renniks, it is past time for you, to start reading your Bible and stop repeating the same error of your churches reinterpretation of the scriptures.