Christian assaulted for reading Bible aloud, so cops arrest him!!

Vambram

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An appeals court ruling has delivered a body blow to Seattle's "heckler's veto" practices, in which police officers ordered a man, on public property, to quit speaking or leave because others objected to what he was saying.
A panel of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ordered the case involving Matthew Meinecke returned to the lower courts for an injunction against that leftist ideology.

The ruling was written by Judge Jay Bybee and was joined by Margaret McKeown and Daniel Bress.

They posted a lengthy description of the events:
Protestors surrounded Meinecke after about an hour. One protestor seized Meinecke’s Bible. Meinecke retrieved another Bible from his bag and continued reading aloud. Another protestor grabbed hold of—and ripped pages from—the new Bible. The altercation soon escalated. As protestors, some of whom Seattle police characterized in their written reports as Antifa, encroached, Meinecke took hold of an orange-and-white traffic sawhorse. Five protestors, some clad in all black and wearing body armor, picked up Meinecke and the sawhorse, moved him across the street, and dropped him on the pavement. One law enforcement officer who observed this interaction reported that "'Antifa' members … began to fight/assault"\ Meinecke.

Undeterred, Meinecke walked back to his original location by the federal building and resumed reading and held up a sign. While people gathered on the street, however, some approached Meinecke, knocked him down, and took one of his shoes.

Seattle police finally intervened. Although the officers acknowledged that the protestors had assaulted Meinecke, they took no action against the perpetrators. They instead ordered Meinecke to leave the area. The precise dictates of the officers’ order are in dispute. Meinecke maintains that the officers instructed him "to go where no one could hear [his] message or read [his] sign." The city disagrees, claiming that Seattle police simply directed Meinecke to the other side of the street and that they told Meincke that he "could still display his banner and exercise his [F]irst [A]mendment rights."
Regardless, Meinecke declined to go to a different location. The officers then arrested Meinecke for obstruction under Seattle Municipal Code Ordinance § 12A.16.010(A)(3), which provides, "A person is guilty of obstructing a police officer if, with knowledge that the person obstructed is a police officer, he or she … ntentionally refuses to cease an activity or behavior that creates a risk of injury to any person when ordered to do so by a police officer." The officers took Meinecke to the police precinct and kept him there for about two hours; they did not book him. Meinecke was released after the abortion protest ended…

Seattle’s annual PrideFest took place on June 26, 2022, two days after the Dobbs rally. The event was held at the Seattle Center, a public park. Meinecke, again dressed in a shirt and tie, entered the park around noon and began to read from the Bible in a conversational tone.

Eventually, PrideFest attendees noticed Meinecke’s presence. As the district court found, they began "dancing near him, holding up a flag to keep people from seeing him," and making "loud noises so he could not be heard." According to his complaint, "a couple of attendees stood close to Meinecke and howled and barked like dogs, and mocked Meinecke, while he read passages from the Bible. Meinecke did not engage with them." Another individual poured water on Meinecke’s Bible. Meinecke kept reading aloud.

After a couple of hours, more PrideFest attendees gathered around Meinecke and began yelling. This attracted the attention of about ten law enforcement officers, who asked Meinecke "to move to a public area located outside the park." Meinecke declined and continued to read from his Bible. A PrideFest attendee shouted at the officers, demanding Meinecke’s removal. The officers then told Meinecke "\that they were imposing a 'time, place, and manner' restriction on him and ordered him to leave the park." Again, Meinecke declined to leave. The officers told Meinecke "that he was posing a risk to public safety," and they again demanded he leave the park. Meinecke told the officers that he was not in any danger. The officers then arrested Meinecke for obstruction.

Meinecke again was taken to the precinct. This time, though, the officers booked him. He was later released on bond. At his hearing a few days later, the city informed Meinecke that it was not pursuing the charges against him at that time, but it warned Meinecke that "it could bring up charges for this incident at a later time."
 

AlexB23

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An appeals court ruling has delivered a body blow to Seattle's "heckler's veto" practices, in which police officers ordered a man, on public property, to quit speaking or leave because others objected to what he was saying.
A panel of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ordered the case involving Matthew Meinecke returned to the lower courts for an injunction against that leftist ideology.

The ruling was written by Judge Jay Bybee and was joined by Margaret McKeown and Daniel Bress.

They posted a lengthy description of the events:
I will pray for this Christian man. A decade ago, we would have the freedom to read the Bible out loud. In 2024, it seems like freedom of speech is getting taken away by both sides of the aisle. 2 Timothy talks about persecution of Christians. "In 2021, Christians were harassed by governments or private actors in 160 countries, up from 155 in 2020." - Pew Research

I can not imagine what persecution levels are in 2024, but the Pew Data only goes up to 2021.

Pew Data: 2. Harassment of religious groups returned to peak level in 2021
And an April 25 Bible study on 2nd Timothy.

DateApril 25, 2024
Verse2 Timothy 3:12 (NIV): "In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted"
Explanation2 Timothy 3:12 is a passage from the New Testament book of 2 Timothy, written by the apostle Paul to his young protege, Timothy. The verse states, "In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted." This means that those who choose to follow Christ and live according to His teachings will likely face opposition, hardships, or even physical harm from others due to their faith.
A well-known example of a persecuted figure in the Bible is Stephen, who is described in the book of Acts as "a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit" (part of Acts 6:5). Stephen's godly life and bold witness for Christ brought him into conflict with the religious leaders of his time. The leaders falsely accused Stephen of blasphemy, and he was stoned to death (Acts 7).
Societal RelevanceIn modern life, the verse continues to be relevant as many Christians around the world face persecution for their faith. According to Open Doors USA, a nonprofit organization that supports persecuted Christians, an estimated ~360 million Christians live in countries where they experience high levels of persecution, such as in China and Iran as of 2024. This persecution can take many forms, including physical violence, discrimination, social ostracism, and even legal prosecution.
The verse also speaks to the experience of many Christians in the Western world, who may not face physical persecution but still encounter hostility or discrimination due to their faith. For example, some Christians may face social pressure to keep their faith private or may be bullied or ostracized for expressing their beliefs in public. Others may face legal challenges, such as being denied the right to practice their faith in certain settings or having their religious freedoms infringed upon by government policies.

Overall, 2 Timothy 3:12 reminds us that following Christ may not be easy or popular, but it is a worthy calling. It also calls us to pray for and support our brothers and sisters in Christ who face persecution around the world.
 
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Desk trauma

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A panel of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ordered the case involving Matthew Meinecke returned to the lower courts for an injunction against that leftist ideology.
The heckler veto isn’t a thing exclusive to leftists. Conservatives even write songs about it.
 
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AlexB23

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"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men.
Hmm. Matthew 6:5, from Jesus himself. I might need to do an analysis on that verse just as I have done with 2 Timothy 3:12 (verse, explanation, relevance in society), as we are also told to spread the Good News. Maybe there is an appropriate time and place to spread the gospel. I'll get back to you. :)
 
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Vambram

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"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men.
He wasn't praying. He was reading aloud from the Bible.
 
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iluvatar5150

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An appeals court ruling has delivered a body blow to Seattle's "heckler's veto" practices, in which police officers ordered a man, on public property, to quit speaking or leave because others objected to what he was saying.
A panel of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ordered the case involving Matthew Meinecke returned to the lower courts for an injunction against that leftist ideology.

The ruling was written by Judge Jay Bybee and was joined by Margaret McKeown and Daniel Bress.

They posted a lengthy description of the events:
Your ACAB card is in the mail.
 
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AlexB23

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Your ACAB card is in the mail.
Well, most cops are nice people, it is always the bad ones that make the news. In recent years, there has been a growing narrative that the news portrays police officers in an unfavorable light, often depicting them as violent and brutal. This perception is largely due to the way news stories about police encounters are reported in the media. It's essential to understand that while there are instances of police brutality, they represent a small fraction of the overall number of interactions between law enforcement and citizens. The vast majority of police officers are friendly, nonviolent individuals who genuinely care about their communities. They go above and beyond their duty to help people in need and build positive relationships with the public.

So, @Vambram was correct, cos the cops in the OP's posted article are bad apples, and they should have never mistreated or allowed for the mistreatment of the street preacher. Single digit percentages of cops are bad apples, though not many studies have been done: Study: Removing 'bad apples' from police forces unlikely to significantly reduce use-of-force complaints
 
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Pommer

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Well, most cops are nice people, it is always the bad ones that make the news. In recent years, there has been a growing narrative that the news portrays police officers in an unfavorable light, often depicting them as violent and brutal. This perception is largely due to the way news stories about police encounters are reported in the media. It's essential to understand that while there are instances of police brutality, they represent a small fraction of the overall number of interactions between law enforcement and citizens. The vast majority of police officers are friendly, nonviolent individuals who genuinely care about their communities. They go above and beyond their duty to help people in need and build positive relationships with the public.

So, @Vambram was correct, cos the cops in the OP's posted article are bad apples, and they should have never mistreated or allowed for the mistreatment of the street preacher. Single digit percentages of cops are bad apples, though not many studies have been done: Study: Removing 'bad apples' from police forces unlikely to significantly reduce use-of-force complaints
Perhaps you’ve misinterpreted the acronym?

If a person does the (police) job that they’re paid to do, perfectly, then it’s almost la prerequisite.

We (as a society) have to redefine the job we ask police to do, because right now it almost requires ACAB.

It’s not the “bad apples”, fault, it’s the job/system that turns them.
 
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AlexB23

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Perhaps you’ve misinterpreted the acronym?

If a person does the (police) job that they’re paid to do, perfectly, then it’s almost la prerequisite.

We (as a society) have to redefine the job we ask police to do, because right now it almost requires ACAB.

It’s not the “bad apples”, fault, it’s the job/system that turns them.
ACAB = All cops are bad, so I got the acronym correct. Yes, the system is faulty. For instance, some police districts have a ticket quota. Luckily, mine doesn't: Outlawing Police Quotas
 
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"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men.
That’s not what happened. :doh:
 
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RileyG

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"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men.
I agree. Still doesn’t justify assaulting someone.
 
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The Barbarian

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From what I've been able to see, it's the "thin blue line" rule that says cops always back up other cops. So often, decent cops don't stop or report the few criminals among them.

But thanks in part to the ubiquity of cell-phone cameras, that's starting to change. On particularly egregious case was recently reversed in favor of a police officer fired for stopping a thug from choking a handcuffed suspect:

Former Buffalo, New York police officer Cariol Horne said she has never stopped believing in the justice system. A judge recently ruled her department pension be reinstated despite an abrupt firing 15 years ago.

"I did think this day would come, that's why I kept fighting," she told CBS News' Jericka Duncan.

Horne was dismissed after she tried to break up a confrontation involving a chokehold between a White officer and a Black man in 2006. She made headlines after she tried to stop fellow officer Greg Kwiatkowski from choking a suspect named Neal Mack.

Horne says she was struck in the face by Kwiatkowski during this time.

And after watching George Floyd stop breathing under the knee of former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin, Horne recalled why she intervened.

"Neal Mack looked like he was about to die," she told "CBS This Morning" in June 2020. "So had I not stepped in, he possibly could have. He was handcuffed and being choked."

Mack, who also spoke to "CBS This Morning" in the same time period, maintains Horne saved his life.

"He was choking me. I was handcuffed. Cariol Horne said, 'You killing him, Greg!' and she reached over and tried to grab his hand around my neck," Mack previously recalled.

The mother of five was fired by her department after it found her use of force against a fellow officer was unjustified. She was terminated just months before being eligible to receive her full pension.

Greg Kwiatkowski was later sentenced to four months in federal prison in 2018 for using "unlawful and unreasonable force" against four Black teenagers.

In October of last year the city's mayor signed the Duty to Intervene law, which would require police to step in if a fellow officer uses excessive force. Horne helped craft the legislation and has been pushing for it since 2016.

"We don't want other officers to go through what I've gone through, but we don't want other victims to go through what George Floyd went through," she said.


Duty to Intervene should be a federal law, and strictly enforced.
 
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bèlla

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He went to an abortion rally and LBGT event. They aren't required to accommodate the interruption and a sensible person would have anticipated problems and chosen differently. He doesn't get a pass because he's Christian. If you aren't willing to suffer the consequences you have no business taking that course.

~bella
 
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The IbanezerScrooge

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AlexB23 said:
So, @Vambram was correct, cos the cops in the OP's posted article are bad apples, and they should have never mistreated or allowed for the mistreatment of the street preacher. Single digit percentages of cops are bad apples, though not many studies have been done: Study: Removing 'bad apples' from police forces unlikely to significantly reduce use-of-force complaints

People always forget the rest of the "Bad Apples" idiom.

"A few bad apples... spoils the bunch"

And your link seems to serve to support the ACAB acronym. If removing the "bad apples" doesn't significantly change anything that people are complaining about then one could conclude that the bunch hath been spoiled.
 
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AlexB23

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People always forget the rest of the "Bad Apples" idiom.

"A few bad apples... spoils the bunch"

And your link seems to serve to support the ACAB acronym. If removing the "bad apples" doesn't significantly change anything that people are complaining about then one could conclude that the bunch hath been spoiled.
True. But there are still nice officers though. We need more studies on this.
 
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Pommer

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True. But there are still nice officers though. We need more studies on this.
Please understand…the job that we ask police to do, requires them to tolerate bad behavior amongst their ranks, because it’s not “good cops & bad cops”, it’s a usually “good cop” who loses it from time to time.

However, if he only “honor” that they’re able to maintain is, “at least I didn’t ‘rat-out’ my colleagues!” then there will have to be a lot of work done.
 
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AlexB23

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Please understand…the job that we ask police to do, requires them to tolerate bad behavior amongst their ranks, because it’s not “good cops & bad cops”, it’s a usually “good cop” who loses it from time to time.

However, if he only “honor” that they’re able to maintain is, “at least I didn’t ‘rat-out’ my colleagues!” then there will have to be a lot of work done.
I agree with that. Would better mental health screenings, and programs help the police do their task without negatively harming society? The root problem might be mental health issues that officers have, including PTSD.

Police mental health: 5 Reasons the Mental Health of Police Officers Needs to Be a Priority
Scientific journal on police officer's state of mental health: Mental Health Stigma and Help-Seeking Intentions in Police Employees
 
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