Do you know what this verse means??

[Karen123]

What do you think is meant by this ladies...

1 Timothy 2:14-15
" And Adam was not the one decieved, it was the woman who was decieved and became a sinner.
Nevertheless she will BE SAVED in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness with propriety".


As christians we know we are saved by believing Jesus died for our sins (John 3:16) :) and it would be wrong to think we are saved any other way. :( Even BEFORE Jesus (which this verse is written in the New Testament anyhow), it doesn't seem like God would punish those women who couldn't bear children- do you know what I mean?
Or women who because of some mental disorder (like sever depression) or physical impedement SHOULDN'T have children.

BUT...if we have faith in the bible, we to know this verse has to contain truth, even if not fully understood by people like me.

Any ideas on what God is trying to say here y'all??

ps Another thing that shows the verse wasn't intended to be taken literally is that it Timothy was written by Paul, and Paul had a great understanding of Jesus and knew the only way to be saved was through Jesus. He preached this all over the place and brought many to Christ. :clap: So how come he wrote this?? :confused: Any ideas?

[gnu-ehacks]

I've heard this two ways.

1) It was meant for people with the wrong view on childbirth, who thought that childbirth would send them to Hell, so Paul almost had to make them have children

2) It is not in the sense of saved from Hell, but from idleness. When you are idle and have nothing to do, you are more succeptable to sin.

[Bibi]

First of all let me begin by saying I'm not a Bible scholar and I have so much to learn so my interpretation may be off a bit :) I'm here to learn. ;)

In response to your question; The key phrase is -"if they continue in faith, love, and holiness with propriety". I think he is talking about the woman of faith here (ie already saved). It encourages women of faith that their role in the home as wife and mother is a good thing.

I also noticed that women in the old testament did not have children unless God allowed it, and infertility was a big issue. In some cases men would have children with other women if their wives were infertile. The new testament doesn't seem to focus on that as much, except of course for the virgin birth and the conception of John the Babtist.

I also feel that an infertile couple isn't being punished at all, I don't really know why God chooses some to have children and others don't but I do know we need to trust him and let him guide us.

Having dealt with infertility myself, I know first hand, when he thinks you're ready it will happen. After almost four years of trying (no medical problems for both of us) we finally had a beautiful baby girl last year. I'm 32 and my husband is 38 and she is our first. We concieved her almost exactly one year after I was saved, my husband has been a Christian all his life. :pray:

A real miracle and a blessing for us! :clap:

Sorry, I didn't expect this to be so long, thanks if you made it this far. :sorry:

[SenseiPiccolo]

Originally posted by Karen123
What do you think is meant by this ladies...

1 Timothy 2:14-15
" And Adam was not the one decieved, it was the woman who was decieved and became a sinner.
Nevertheless she will BE SAVED in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness with propriety".


*cough*itmeans*cough*whatit*cough*says*cough*
(blinks- realizing he is again in the ladies forums...)

:sorry:

(runs away scaredly)

[ZiSunka]

Okay.

Eve offered the fruit to Adam and he ate, knowing full-well what the consequences were. Nonetheless, Eve fell for satan's lie and tempted Adam to fall for it, too. Adam didn't refuse, though, so he's not blameless, either.

You really have to read that whole chapter to make real sense of the passage.

Since Eve brought sin into the world, it demonstrates that women have a power over men, that women can lead men astray pretty easily. Therefore, churches need to be really careful in allowing women to be in leadership positions, that the whole church doesn't go off on a tangent. And if you look at the history of our faith, most of the cults and apostasies have been initiated by women. There is no way to dispute that. We have the ability to lead men astray (I think it's because they aren't always the brightest bulb in the box).

When the women of Timothy's church complained about not being in leadership roles, Paul was reminding him why this was so. The women then complained about not getting the fame and attention that the men were getting for their leadership and teaching roles. Paul then replied that women could make a name for themselves and get attention by rasing godly children and having Christian homes.

It does NOT mean that women find salvation through childbearing in lieu of salvation through Christ. Spiritual salvation is through Christ alone.

[Avila]

Well, I think that it means that by becoming mothers, we are doing what Christ asks us to: feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, tending the sick/infirm, helping the impoverished, etc. Also, the way our children end up as adults reflects how we raised them. If they stick to what we teach them (assuming that it is godly, of course), then that will be a credit to us, and we will be remembered - "Say, isn't that Jane's son? Boy, he sure turned out good, didn't he?"

The theology and philosophy behind this is quite complicated, and I've only scratched the surface in my understanding, but those are the basics. If you combine it with Lamb's Love's response, it kinda makes sense... It needs some gaps filled in, but you can see the connection.

[ZiSunka]

Amen.

We have opportunities and bents for service that men don't have.

[Karen123]

I liked your comments LambsLove! :) At first glance the verse seems kind of demoting to women... but, your comments suggest it's actually very empowering to women! :priest:
I think your right on! :D Thanks!

[MizDoulos]

Welcome aboard, Karen!

Since your question pertains to a verse in Scripture, I've moved your thread to the Work Shop forum where it can be answered by everyone.

Blessings to you!

[engrapho]

saved- body, soul, and spirit. In your soul is where your mind is. This scripture is not talking about 'saved' as in going to heaven. It in relation to the curse in the garden that a woman would want to rule over her husband maybe. She would be occupied with raising children not competing with husband.

I believe a better translation of the greek would be 'restored'. Anyway it's about attitudes and submission not earning salvation.

[Wildfire]

Well, maybe it means that her labor pains will not be so terrible; I often think of Mary, and wonder if labor was dificult with Jesus or not, because he was the son of God. So maybe, <to be saved in childbearing>, refers to this.
Wildfire

[Messenger]

:scratch: I'm not sure???

My NIV Bible has notes in it and this is what it says:

1Timothy 2:15 Three possible meaning of this verse are
(1) It speaks of the godly woman finding fullfilment in her role as wife and mother in the home
(2) It refers to woman being saved spiritually through the most significant birth of all, the incarnation of Christ,or
(3) It refers to woman being kept physically safe in childbirth.

[MissytheButterfly]

I have a study bible that breaks down a lot of the verses and what they mean. Here is what my King James Version Study Bible says:

Two reasons are given for the apostolic command of verse 12(1) Priority in Creation denotes man's authority over women (v 13). God could have created the woman first or both simutaneously, but He did not, as it was always His intention for man to lead and the woman follow. (2) In the serpent's temptation (Gen 3) Adam was not deceived, but Eve was deceived. 2:15 This verse is amphibiological, that is, it means 2 different things concurrently, both of which are correct. She shall be saved had the soteriological and ecclessiatical meaning. The former means that although Eve fell "in the transgression" (v 14) women can be spiritually saved from sin, provided they perserve in faith and charity (love) and holiness with sobriety (chastity). The ecclesiatical meaning indicates the woman, "shall be saved" from having no rule or significance in the local church. Her primary ministy is that of childbearing and the rearing of children who will become godly adults and leaders. "The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world."

I hope that helped in some way. It helped me a lot.

[Debbie]

The English word "saved" in that verse does not mean "saved" as in salvation, & probably comes from 2 different greek words or meanings. It has nothing to do with childbirth, physically. It is a spiritual meaning.
It is in regards to women being pastors. Women are not to be pastors POSSIBLY because they are more emotional, or more easily influenced by fast talkers. (Eve fell for the game layed on her by satan). Then the male, (Adam), fell by the female's persuasion. Thus a reason is given for women not being pastors.

[MissytheButterfly]

Debbie, I was just writing what scholars have said. I got that information from a study bible. It makes sense to me. But we all have to believe what we feel.

Bless you

[Thunderchild]

The Greek "dia" (through) can mean either "during" or "by means of," just as "through" can, in English, mean either.

The problem with this passage arises because we are schooled to think of "saved" as a matter of the salvation to eternal life that comes through the Christ. This instance of "saved" however, has a far more ordinary application. "she will be saved through (during) the birth of the child."

Remembering the dangers of pregnancy and delivery in the times, this was an important promise.

[Debbie]

Missy the butterfly, I wasn't thinking of your post at all, when I wrote mine.
Oddly enough, after I wrote that post, I had a visitor who brought this same scripture up in conversation. This is what he said:" No woman in the old testament times was saved. Women can now be preachers, but they are saved now through childbirth & good works".
How about that for a misinterpretation?