Hi, I'm looking for my mind...have you seen it?

[jbarcher]

Hello :wave:

I'd like to know how we come to the original texts, to what degree can we find the original, etc. Some questions to answer:

- What methods are employed finding the original?
- Does textual agreement equate to finding the original?
- (Summarily, how do we know what were the original texts?)
- Evidence of reliable transmission?
- Amount of agreement between manuscripts?
- Other archaeological confirmation for the answers to these questions?
- General reliability/authority of encyclopedias and works written by scholars?

Some sources and/or names would be helpful. I plan to study this specific part of history (now)...and aside from adding unknown questions that should appear, I think I should find one or two guys and start out from there (Sir William Ramsey's "St. Paul and the Roman Citizen" I have access to). There's an insane amount of material to attempt to cover it all quickly (Chronicles and Kings would be madness), so I think I'll start with synoptics/Acts and work out from there. Hearing a portion of a debate between Gary Hamerbas and Antony Flew regarding the bodily resurrection leaves me thinking that Paul and Luke are going to be very strong points.

So...I would appreciate your thoughts/suggestions/recommendations. :wave:

[kyzar]

Ummm, sorry I can't be of much help, but I'll pray for you...
Good luck! and when you finish it id love to read what you've discovered:
Please PM me what you find.

God Bless!

[ZiSunka]

Hi, I'm looking for my mind...have you seen it?

No, but if you see mine while you're looking, could you send it home? :D

By the way, there is a good book called, "From God to Us" that answers all your questions much better than we could here. You can get it at almost any bookstore or at amazon.

[jbarcher]

Haha! I have that book actually and I was reading it. :sorry: But it is, even it says on the back cover, that it is only a brief introduction. By Geisler and Nix.

I'm listening to a debate between Gary Hamerbas (Christian philosopher, historian, evidentalist apologst) vs Antony Flew (atheist philosopher), and I haven't gone through and taken notes, but I'd sure like to get my hands on some books by a variety of scholars.

[RED that's ME]

/me wonders where our Baptist Bible scholars are that post in the Baptist Forum about different Bible versions.:angel:

[Gold Dragon]

- Amount of agreement between manuscripts?
I recently discovered this website that has been great at listing the variants between manuscripts. New Testament Textual Variants (http://bible.ovc.edu/tc/)

Bible-researcher (http://www.bible-researcher.com/title.html) also has a great page to list variants and general articles about textual criticism.

Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry (CARM) has a great page for listing all the thousands of Greek manuscripts (http://www.carm.org/bible.htm)in existence

[jbarcher]

Hm, I'll check those out. Well, I have three books and four authors to list here:

Recommended by Tektonics:
"Aramaic Sources of Mark's Gospel" by Maurice Casey
"A General Introduction to the Bible" by Geisler and Nix
"Hidden Gospels" by Philip Jenkins

And Paul Johnson, who's work, "A History of Christianity" is probably the ONLY conservative position in my school library (two Karen Armstrong books, haha...). Ah yes, and "The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel is pretty good as well.

[Gold Dragon]

- What methods are employed finding the original?
- Does textual agreement equate to finding the original?
- (Summarily, how do we know what were the original texts?)
Are you asking how the theory of Textual Criticism works? If so, here are some links that you may find useful.

Encyclopedia of NT Textual Criticism (http://www.skypoint.com/~waltzmn/) -- Introduction (http://www.skypoint.com/~waltzmn/intro.html)
Bible Researcher (http://www.bible-researcher.com) -- Rules of Textual Criticism (http://www.bible-researcher.com/rules.html)
Student's Guide to NT Textual Variants (http://bible.ovc.edu/tc/) -- Introduction to Textual Criticism (http://bible.ovc.edu/tc/layintro.htm)
Bibleviews: The Authority of Scripture (http://www.bibleviews.com/Articles.html) -- Translations and the Greek Text (http://www.bibleviews.com/authority-6.html)
CARM (http://www.carm.org/index.html) -- Manuscript & Variant Tree (http://www.carm.org/bible/textualexample.htm)

[Gold Dragon]

- Other archaeological confirmation for the answers to these questions?
The primary extrabiblical confirmations of the manuscripts are usually the writings of the Early Church Fathers (ECF).

Here is a link to a comprehensive list of writings from the ECFs including the NT.
Early Christian Writings (http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/)

Another site that may be useful talks about the development of the NT Canon and lists many of the biblical verses quoted by some ECFs and early Christian heretics.
Development of the Canon of the NT (http://www.ntcanon.org/) - Early Christian Authorities (http://www.ntcanon.org/authorities.shtml)

[lionroar0]

Metzger!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BT]

I'm listening to a debate between Gary Hamerbas (Christian philosopher, historian, evidentalist apologst) vs Antony Flew (atheist philosopher), and I haven't gone through and taken notes, but I'd sure like to get my hands on some books by a variety of scholars.

OOoooh I'd like to hear that debate. I'm a fan of Habermas. If you've never read his book "The Historicity of Christ". You'd probably like it...

[BT]

* RED that's ME wonders where our Baptist Bible scholars are that post in the Baptist Forum about different Bible versions.:angel:
I'm here, but I hate to admit that I'm just too busy right now to give a detailed answer. After the weekend perhaps I can get back to this thread. Mabey the OP would be better served asking this question in the GT boards or somewhere...

[Crazy Liz]

Metzger!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:doh:
I can't believe this thread got over a page and only one mention of Metzger. Just because the person who posted this wasn't a Baptist, please don't disregard it. Anyone who wants to study this question seriously MUST begin with Metzger. He is conservative, Evangelical, and specializes in Greek and NT textual criticism. Every single serious scholar will tell you he is the leader in this field.

Read some of these others, also, but start with Metzger. For an idea of what he's written and who cites him, discusses him, whose books he has written prefaces for, etc. try doing a search on Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/002-0040315-7224838)using the keywords "Metzger New Testament."

[seebs]

If you're looking for information on Text Criticism, drop a line to the user CaDan, who is a BIG fan of the stuff, and has a bookshelf or two full of it.

[jbarcher]

Cool. :) Thanks for all the help! :hug: