How do you deal with Mary

[visionary]

I am blown out of my waters....
I was in this thread when this fellow says that Rev 12 woman is Mary and then goes on to explain how it affects everything he reads in scripture, whether he realized the impact of what he is saying or not, I got a incredible impression.

http://www.christian-forums.com/t732007

If any of you know more about the mind that is wrapped so tight around Mary that they beleive they would lose salvation if they let go, please help this fellow for he is in deep.

[Sephania]

Prayer is the only thing, we can't change anyones will, nor open their eyes, but we can ask the one who can to on their behalf. :)

[visionary]

Please pray for this fellow that his eyes may be opened, that his mind may understand the lies, delusions and deceptions that he is being fed. May he have a damascus experience, that he will do a 180 and follow the Lord into all truth.

[CharlesYTK]

Visionary,

Prayer brother is your best way to approach this. I was a Messianic teacher in a large Catholic church for a couple years, as a guest. And I had to deal with this all the time. It is a really bad situation. And it is probably a lot deeper than you have seen so far. There is a move within Catholicism to officially name Mary a co-redemptrix with Jesus, meaning by praying to her and asking her to be your savior, you get saved!!It is blaphemy plain and simple. When you give credit to man for what God has done. The Pope is a BIG Marian. And as a side note, so are the Muslims. Thats another story.

This mother child goddess thing goes way back to Nimrod and his mother who was deified (because since Nirod became a god then the mother that bore him had to also be a godess ect. Sound familiar?) You see this in Sumer ,Babylon, Greece, Rome almost all Pagan forms of religion have the mother goddess cult. For the Roman Christians it was easy to pick up because Rome already has this pagan blief and statues of the Madonna with the child on her knee, so they only has to chissel off the old godess name and replace it with Mary.

The things I try to point out to them is that there is only one God and he is Messiah. He says there is no savior except me. We are not allowed to pray to or petition the dead and the catholics get around this by saying Mary was taken into heaven, the assumption, (Boy they named that right, assumption) The other thing I try to point out to them is that we are saved through the process of Blood covenant, which is a relationship between two parties. In this case it is between God and Man and Messiah is God who is our covenental head. When christians pray they usually end their prayers with the phrase, "In Jesus name we pray" as if it was a little like "Abrakadabra" added to the end of a spell. If you say this your prayers are answered. The idea comes from misunderstanding what Yeshua said about we will recieve what we pray for if we ask in his name. But that is not what it means. We are to come before the trone of God with our requests not on our own merit, (for we merit nothing on our own) but with Yeshuas blood,His Merit. "Father I come to you not because of who I am or what I have done, but in the name of Yeshua who has sealed the covenant you made with us by his blood. I pray to you in the name of Messiah Yeshua and on the basis of what he did for me.

What you have run into is spiritual blindness and will bring you right back to the same basic issue, the church is not based on scriptures or Torah and not even on the New Testament. It is founded only on the teachings of the Church fathers of the 3-4 centuries. They came to power when the masses were illiterate (I hate it when I misspell that word) and uneducated, when the priest was given supposed powers of mysticism and spoke in secret language and rituals and controlled a persons eternal destiny. These Church fathers were the same men who brought you other great events like the inquisition and the crusades and the ovens of ashwitz, and great knowledge like, black magic, and the assurance that the world was flat and located in the center of the universe. And once it was in place, it is taught from one generation to the next. It is perpetuated by threatened fear of eternal damnation and is therefore spiritual witchcraft.

Back to my favorite saying "The traitions of men will not yield even in the face of overwhelming scriptural evidence."

So what is the status of a person who prays to Mary for salvation? They better by a really good fire proof suit! Mary was a great lady, a real faithful servant of God. Without her, no messiah. I got to love her, and I do. But she is not a godess.

[CharlesYTK]

Hey, I think I just remembered why I was banned at the OBOB forum! :idea:

[Nossa-the-Lame]

I was told that the idea behind praying to a saint or mary was to ask them to pray for you, since they are close to G-d or whatever. It kinda makes sense, but then it also doesn't. It makes saints and Mary seem to be more special than the person praying! Like if your prayers are not enough for G-d to hear them. THey also claim that its like having 2 people pray for you, which is better than 1, again that logic fails. One voice should be enough. Then another argument is that the saints and mary are right next to G-d, again logic=failure. G-d is everywhere, his presence is limitless and beyond comprehension. To say that he can't hear me as well here as if I were in heaven is to make g-d less than what he is! So from my point of view, the logic completely fails with the idea of praying to saints and mary. And now I am not sure if I am on topic with this post....eh sorry if I am not. :confused:

Shalom!
-Nossa

[visionary]

You are, and I must confess my innocence when it comes to the faith of catholics. I did not understand to the sacredness of Mary this ideology goes. I gues I wasn'[t paying that much attention to those that mentioned her in a revered way. I thought they just didn't know. It is the knowing and still persisting that blows me away. How much truth can they cast aside before the Lord says they have committed the unpardonable. It is a much bigger delusion than I realized. It is all mainly due to the fact, I can not believe that people swollow that hoey. But then they swollow man-made drugs daily for "their own good" too. So why am I surprised.

[Nossa-the-Lame]

But then they swollow man-made drugs daily for "their own good" too.


:scratch: :confused: Could you please clarify this? Thanks.

[visionary]

There is a medical hospital that is just across the mexican/california border that is there because it could not practice the alternative in US. It specializes in cancer patients and where those that have been sent home to die, they have with nutrition, herbs and other alternative medicine have had a 80% success rate. I like those practices that look for the Godly ways of dealing with things, including your health.

[Bon]

John 14:6
Yahshua said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life.
No one comes to the Father except through me.


Not Mary or the saints......


Shalom from Bon

[CharlesYTK]

Something you see a lot of is the little white elevated scrines, with the statue of mary in it with her arms our bidding the world to come to her and the owners go out and place flowers around her and at her feet, making offerings to this idol and some kneeling before it praying to her and kissing those cold stone toes. Does God approve of this? Not the God of the Bible. He is pretty clear on this sort of stuff. The Jews made a golden calf once when they left Egypt and it was meant to worship God, our God not a Pagan god, but the lord said you are not to worship me in the way that the Pagans worship their gods and you are not to make an image of anything to bow down before it. So he opened the ground and swallowed up 3000 of them. Later for this same sort of thing he sent the Southern kingdom into Exile in Babylon for 70 years and the Northern kingdom ,,,well they have never come back from their exile.

And you see I do not fault the people as much as the pastors and teachers who are leading the flock into the abyss. Its all right there in the book. But you se they eliminated the book so that they could do whatever they wanted, and so there they are Lawless and rebellious and idolatous. Sory folks, its not my judgment, it is the Lords judgement and he gave us all fair warning.

[Nossa-the-Lame]

Wow, I just read the WHOLE THREAD, and its...wow. Charles, your good :thumbsup: , smae to you Visionary, I think I would just stick a few quotes in there, and leave it be. I wouldn't touch that thread with a ten foot poll

Shalom!
-Nossa