Elders in the church,

[Dikaioo]

Hello,
I'm wondering what everyone's opinion is on elders in the church? My church has deacons, but my pastor seems opposed to "elders" in the church. There are some rather Biblical churches in my area that do have elders and I'm not convinced that having elders is unscriptural, I'm actually leaning towards it being the scriptural role in the New Testament church. www Bible dot org has some an interesting article by Daniel B. Wallace, a rather established Greek grammarian and author (he teaches at Dallas Theological Seminary).

[SumTinWong]

I love that website and the theology program there. I didn't attend but for awhile they had it online and you could view the videos.

www.bible.org

[Dikaioo]

Some verses:
When they had appointed elders for them in every church, having prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord in whom they had believed.
Acts 14:23
From Miletus he sent to Ephesus and called to him the elders of the church.
Acts 20:17
Philippians 1:1 Paul and Timothy, bond-servants of Christ Jesus, To all the saints in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi, including the overseers and deacons:

[ZiSunka]

I think most of the churches I've been with since I got saved has had elders. I think it's a good system because it distributes the responsibilities for the church and leads to better, more well-thought out decisions. The Bible says that in the advice of many counsellors there is much wisdom, and I think a church needs all the wisdom it can get. I don't think I'd want to go to a church that allows one man to make all the decisions alone. Too great a possibility of going wrong.

[Dikaioo]

So they don't have those videos on there anymore? I didn't know they did in the first place, as I haven't used it much :)

[Dikaioo]

I think most of the churches I've been with since I got saved has had elders. I think it's a good system because it distributes the responsibilities for the church and leads to better, more well-thought out decisions. The Bible says that in the advice of many counsellors there is much wisdom, and I think a church needs all the wisdom it can get. I don't think I'd want to go to a church that allows one man to make all the decisions alone. Too great a possibility of going wrong.

Good point
Proverbs 11:14 Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.
:thumbsup:

[Andyman_1970]

I would venture to guess most pastors who do not like the "elder" system (read democratic) are opposed because they want to be soley in charge.

I have not been a member of a church that had elders, but I sure like the concept.

[eldermike]

I am ordained as an elder (also pastor, but not currently serving in that role) and I serve in an elder led SB church. The pastor in an elder based church is the teaching elder and head of the elders.

[SumTinWong]

So they don't have those videos on there anymore? I didn't know they did in the first place, as I haven't used it much :) No actually they are having funding problems and can't manage the bandwidth costs it takes to keep them up.

[Dikaioo]

No actually they are having funding problems and can't manage the bandwidth costs it takes to keep them up.
That's what I assumed as it is quite a financial burden for bandwidth. :eek:

[BBAS 64]

Hello,
I'm wondering what everyone's opinion is on elders in the church? My church has deacons, but my pastor seems opposed to "elders" in the church. There are some rather Biblical churches in my area that do have elders and I'm not convinced that having elders is unscriptural, I'm actually leaning towards it being the scriptural role in the New Testament church. www Bible dot org has some an interesting article by Daniel B. Wallace, a rather established Greek grammarian and author (he teaches at Dallas Theological Seminary).
Good Day, Dikaioo

I like you attend a Baptist church wre there is one paster, and some deacons. This book may be of some help to you.

https://aomin.org/bookstore/descript.phtml?descript=1334

Peace to u,

Bill

[Dikaioo]

The link you meant (I think) was https://aomin.org/bookstore/shop.html?shop=books (hope that link works) :D

The link you sent gave me a description of the book though ;) I'm familiar w/ his site and have read several of his books. He's a good author :)

[kyzar]

I go to a church with no pastor! Flip side a bit I know! We have deacons (responsbile for the 'physical' church) and elders (responsible for the 'spiritual' side)... I am perosnally not a huge fan of the idea of not having elders in general (with a pastor/minister or not), i think elders are just as, if not more important than deacons. If we had a pastor he would simply be an MC rather than the head of the elders...

Titus Chapter 1 verse 5...
5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:...

This is just a brief example, but the NT mentions elders quite frequently and thus I feel they are pretty important...

My fiance goes to a church with both deacons elders and a pastor. Essentially the pastor discusses virtually everything with the elders from sermons to various minor church related matters... They are all 'accountable' to each other as more a committee...

[theseed]

I am ordained as an elder (also pastor, but not currently serving in that role) and I serve in an elder led SB church. The pastor in an elder based church is the teaching elder and head of the elders.
That makes sense, becasue my Systematic Theology book (Grudem) says that elders, pastors, bishops, and overseers are the same catagory.

[theseed]

Most Baptist churches ahve commitees, and make congregational based decisions.

[Dikaioo]

Most Baptist churches ahve commitees, and make congregational based decisions.

Churches with elders still make choices based on the whole church
;)

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

I try to follow the Biblical model, so I believe elders are necessary.

[MbiaJc]

I go to a church with no pastor! Flip side a bit I know! We have deacons (responsbile for the 'physical' church) and elders (responsible for the 'spiritual' side)... I am perosnally not a huge fan of the idea of not having elders in general (with a pastor/minister or not), i think elders are just as, if not more important than deacons. If we had a pastor he would simply be an MC rather than the head of the elders...

Titus Chapter 1 verse 5...
5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:...

This is just a brief example, but the NT mentions elders quite frequently and thus I feel they are pretty important...

My fiance goes to a church with both deacons elders and a pastor. Essentially the pastor discusses virtually everything with the elders from sermons to various minor church related matters... They are all 'accountable' to each other as more a committee...Who-ray for you for the Bible teaches that the Elders are the Undershepard/pastor of the NT Church. And that is all of them not just one.

All the Churches I have ever belonged to the Pastor is basically a one man show. Which is not bibical.

I think the main reasion the Church has lost its power is because the Churches, won't who they won't for leaders, rather than who God has placed there to be the leaders. Even the office of Deacon in most cases that I know of are not bibically chosen. Rather the congeration chooses who they won't ignoring the bibical qilifications. Elders and Deacons need to be chosen with strict observance of the bibical qulifications.

My prayer is that the Churches will come back to the patern laid down by the Holy Apostles and prophets. And that they will pick their leaders by strict bibical qualifications not human desires. However this will be hard to accomplish because these modern day pastors(which are not bibical) don't won't to loose their power and influence. Not to mention their outrageous saleries.

This is from a person that was raised in a Church that had a part time pastor. After I was saved thought that a full time pastor was God's answer to everything. However a few years, a lot of experience, and a whole lot of Bible study found out that was sure not the way to go. The Bible does not teach this one man pastorial authority we have today.

[kyzar]

Hey top stuff MbiaJc!

I really thought that there aren't many people that hold to a group of elders and deacons appointed by the guidelines set down in the new testament... It seems pretty clear to me... But I wouldn't mind if we did have a pastor simply as the 'face' of the elders...

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

I really thought that there aren't many people that hold to a group of elders and deacons appointed by the guidelines set down in the new testament... It seems pretty clear to me
People always try to do it their way and it fails. But the Bible knows best :)