What did Jesus wear?

[He put me back together]

I'd like to tune this subject on Jesus' garments around the time of his ministry, before the crucifiction. Did Jesus wear clothing that was relevant?

[Oblio]

Relevant ?

[Maximus]

Relevant ?
I think that question about sums it up.

[Oblio]

Maximus my friend, good to see you :clap:

[pmarquette]

outer garment ; like cloak
under garment ; like cassok
belt / sash
under shirt
under wear / loin cloth
sandles

[Oblio]

Like this:

http://home.mindspring.com/~rcwilcox/StInnocent/images/ICXC.jpg

[Photini]

Did Jesus wear clothing that was relevant?


? :scratch:

[Lotar]

Come on, everybody knows that He wore Nike. Though every once in a while, for special occasions, He would put on the Adidas.

[Maximus]

Maximus my friend, good to see you :clap:
Thanks, brother.

Been busy, and the computer was on the blink.

Got a nice, new, faster one now with a bigger memory and a skinny little flat monitor, too. :cool:

God be praised for His blessings.

[countrymousenc]

Come on, everybody knows that He wore Nike. Though every once in a while, for special occasions, He would put on the Adidas.

:D Why, then, today I've been walking in His shoes!

[Matrona]

:D Why, then, today I've been walking in His shoes!
Stupid me and my Skechers. ;)

[Reader Nilus]

I am sure he did not wear the equivalent of a Brooks Brothers suit. He most likely was dressed the way carpenter would have dressed, not in rags and not in the most expensive threads around either.
Jeff the Finn

[simchat_torah]

He would have olive toned skin, wore something in which to cover his head, tzitzit (the blue and white dangling threads), and probably a robe 'n sandals.

[Maximus]

He would have olive toned skin, wore something in which to cover his head, tzitzit (the blue and white dangling threads), and probably a robe 'n sandals.
Speculation.

Perhaps our Lord had olive-toned skin; perhaps not.

His own human ancestor David was said to have had a ruddy complexion (1 Sam. 16:12; 17:42).

[simchat_torah]

Not speculation... logical reasoning. BTW, ruddy can simply mean healthy... or it can mean rosy... but it doesn't mean caucasin ;) Its a quality that can be seen in any race despite the color of the skin. An African American can have rosy (ruddy) skin tones, but this doesn't mean they are no longer dark skinned.

Maybe the Messiah did have a ruddy tone to his olive colored skin, but even if he did have ruddy overtones it would not take away from the color of his skin.

Anywho... it just flabbergasts me that so many depictions of Y'shua are of a blond-haired caucasin hippy. He was a Jew and looked like one too. He would have worn Jewish garb, etc.

pax,
yafet

[Reader Nilus]

Anywho... it just flabbergasts me that so many depictions of Y'shua are of a blond-haired caucasin hippy. He was a Jew and looked like one too. He would have worn Jewish garb, etc.

pax,
yafetI agree it is flabbergasting to say the least. The Martyr Kaj Munk wrote a play about that, which did not endear him to the Nazi's who eventually shot him. Our Lord was a Jewish man and looked Jewish not like a Swede.
Jeff the Finn

[Maximus]

Not speculation... logical reasoning. BTW, ruddy can simply mean healthy... or it can mean rosy... but it doesn't mean caucasin ;) Its a quality that can be seen in any race despite the color of the skin. An African American can have rosy (ruddy) skin tones, but this doesn't mean they are no longer dark skinned.

Maybe the Messiah did have a ruddy tone to his olive colored skin, but even if he did have ruddy overtones it would not take away from the color of his skin.

Anywho... it just flabbergasts me that so many depictions of Y'shua are of a blond-haired caucasin hippy. He was a Jew and looked like one too. He would have worn Jewish garb, etc.

pax,
yafetThe Nazis were not the only ones with an ethnic and racial agenda.

Read the descriptions of David in 1 Samuel. He is called not only ruddy but also fair.

The fact is that we do not really know exactly how our Lord looked. We have an idea from the ancient icons that we believe have preserved at least the basics.

The term Causcasian is antiquated and represents 19th century anthropology and race classification.

Most Palestinian Jews of the first century would have belonged to the Mediterranean branch of the European geographical race.

Our Lord may have had olive skin, and He may not.

Ruddy generally means reddish and fair. It does not mean "healthy."

I have never heard of an olive-skinned person described as ruddy or fair.

That would be nonsense.

[simchat_torah]

Any race can have a ruddy complextion... asian, indonesian, middle eastern...

I find it greatly offensive that someone would want to make the Messiah not a Jew. He was a Jew from deep within Israel.

Christians have been trying to make Jesus into "not a Jew" for a long time now. One who wants to deny he was a Jew... well, simply is racist.
sorry, but it can't be put any other way. :(

[thereselittleflower]

Doesn't the seamless garment He wore have some meaning?


Peace in Him!

[Oblio]

The Placing of the Precious Robe of Our Lord Jesus Christ at Moscow (http://www.oca.org/pages/orth_chri/feasts-and-saints/july/jul-10.html) (1625): The Savior's precious Robe [ Greek "himatia", literally "over-garments"] is not identically the same thing as His seamless coat [Greek "khiton", literally "under-garb tunic"]. They are clearly distinct within Holy Scripture. "Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took His garments (ta himatia) and divided them into four parts, to every soldier a part, and the coat (kai ton khitona). Now the coat was without seam, woven whole from the top down. Therefore, they said among themselves, let us not tear it, but cast lots for it, whose it will become. Thus the saying in Scripture was fulfilled: they divided My raiment (ta imatia) among them, and upon My vesture (epi ton himatismon) did they cast lots" (Jn. 19: 23-24; Ps. 21 [22]: 18-19).

According to the tradition of the Georgian Orthodox Church, the Chiton of the Lord was carried by the Hebrew rabbi Elioz from Jerusalem to Mtsket and at present is beneath a crypt in the foundations of the Mtsket Patriarchal cathedral of Svetitskhoveli (the Feast in honor of the Chiton of the Lord is celebrated on October 1). None of the Mohammedan invaders ever ventured to encroach upon this spot, glorified with a sign by the mercy of God, the Life-Creating Pillar.

The Robe of the Lord, actually one of its four parts, the lower portion specifically (other parts of the Robe of the Lord are also known in Western Europe: in the city of Trier in Germany, and in Argenteuil near Paris in France), just like the Chiton of the Lord, came to be in Georgia. In contrast to the Chiton, the Robe portion was not kept underground, but was in the treasury of the Svetitskhoveli cathedral right up to the seventeenth century. Then the Persian Shah Abbas I, in devastating Georgia, along with other treasures also carried off the Robe of the Lord. In order to ingratiate himself with Tsar Michael Feodorovich, the Shah sent the Robe of the Lord as a gift to Patriarch Philaret (1619-1633) and Tsar Michael in 1625. The authenticity of the Robe was attested by Nektarios, Archbishop of Vologda, also by Patriarch Theophanes of Jerusalem, who had come from Byzantium, and by Ioannikos the Greek, but especially also by the miraculous signs worked by the Lord through the venerable relic.

Afterwards two parts of the Robe came to be in Peterburg: one in the cathedral at the Winter Palace, and the other in Sts. Peter and Paul cathedral. A portion of the Robe was also preserved at the Dormition cathedral in Moscow, and small portions at Kiev's Sophia cathedral, at the Ipatiev monastery near Kostroma and at certain other old temples. At Moscow annually on July 10 the Robe of the Lord is solemnly brought out of a chapel named for the holy Apostles Peter and Paul at the Dormition cathedral, and it is placed on a stand for veneration during the time of divine services. After Liturgy they carry the Robe to its former place.

On this day a service to the Life-Creating Cross of the Lord is proper, since the Placing of the Robe in the Dormition cathedral in 1625 took place on March 29, which happened to be the Sunday of the Veneration of the Cross during the Great Fast.

[Oblio]

The Feast in honor of the Chiton (Tunic) of the Lord and the Life-Creating Pillar (http://www.oca.org/pages/orth_chri/feasts-and-saints/october/oct-01.html#7) is the temple feast of the Mtskheta patriarchal cathedral in honor of the Twelve Holy Apostles, also named the "Life-Creating Pillar." According to the tradition of the Georgian Orthodox Church, the Chiton of the Lord, the seamless garment of the Savior (Jn. 19:23), came to the ancient capital city of Georgia, Mtskhet, in the following manner.

Eleazar (or Elioz), rabbi of the Mtskhet Jewish community, had resettled in Georgia from Jerusalem by the year 70 A.D. After the High Priest Annas told him about the impending execution of Christ, he hastened to Jerusalem in the company of Longinus Carsnifex ("executioner"). They became eyewitnesses to the Passion of the Lord and the casting of lots for His garment (Jn. 19: 23-24; Ps. 21/22: 18).

At the moment when the All-Pure Body of the Lord was nailed to the Cross, the mother of Elioz, in Mtskhet, sensed the blows of the hammer in her heart and shuddered out of great fright. Having related to her daughter Sidonia about the Crucifixion of the Savior, the mother of Elioz then died.

Elioz acquired the Chiton from the soldier who had won it by lot, and he took it with him to Mtskhet. Sidonia, meeting her brother Elioz in tears, told him about the death of their mother and her words just before her death. Elioz confirmed the words of their mother and he showed his sister the Chiton of the Lord. Taking hold the Chiton, the Righteous Sidonia kissed it all over, pressed it to her bosom and immediately fell down lifeless. No one, not even the emperor Aderk (2 B.C.-55 A.D.) was able to loosen the grasp of Sidonia nor take from her the Chiton. The Righteous Sidonia (October 1) was secretly committed to the earth by her brother Elioz in the imperial garden at Mtskhet.

The holy Equal-to-the-Apostles Nino (January 14) told this to the Kartalin Hebrew high priest Aviathar, a descendent of Rabbi Elioz. He came to believe in Christ after hearing the explanation by St. Nino of the ancient prophecies concerning the Messiah, and how these prophecies were fulfilled in the Lord Jesus Christ.

The Georgian emperor Mirian (265-342) was also converted by holy Equal-to-the-Apostles St. Nino, and he decided to build a Christian church on the spot where the Chiton of the Lord was. A massive cedar tree had grown on the grave of Sidonia, which they cut down. They wanted to use its trunk as a foundation pillar to support the main dome of the church, but they were not able to raise it upright. St. Nino prayed all night for Divine help and visions were granted to her, in which were revealed the historical destiny of Georgia.

At dawn an angel of the Lord approached the pillar and raised it in the air. The pillar, shining with a wondrous light, was elevated and then lowered in the air, until it was set over its base. From the stump of the cedar issued a fragrant myrrh. Thus the angel of the Lord indicated the place where the Chiton of the Lord was concealed in the ground.

This event, witnessed by many of the inhabitants of Mtskhet, is depicted on the icon, "Glorification of the Georgian Church." Afterwards, the majestic stone cathedral of the Life-Creating Pillar was built in place of the wooden church. The Life-Creating Pillar, from which many healings occurred, has a four-cornered stone covering, and is crowned by a dome, lower than the arch of the cathedral. The Pillar is positioned in the cathedral with a model of the Church of the Resurrection of the Lord at Jerusalem.

The Georgian Orthodox Church established the October 1 feastday in honor of the Tunic of the Lord and the Life-Creating Pillar.

[Suzannah]

Any race can have a ruddy complextion... asian, indonesian, middle eastern...

I find it greatly offensive that someone would want to make the Messiah not a Jew. He was a Jew from deep within Israel.

Christians have been trying to make Jesus into "not a Jew" for a long time now. One who wants to deny he was a Jew... well, simply is racist.
sorry, but it can't be put any other way. :(
Dear simchat: I don't want to inflame anyone, but if you think this is bad, consider me: I'm Irish and I constantly see the "new agers" trying to say and make Jesus over into a "druid"....It's slander against my people through ignorance of my people's history and on top of that, it is blasphemy...unfortunately, we have to deal with people like this and concentrate on correcting these absurdities, rather than argue amongst ourselves whether he was ruddy or olive skinned. Personally, I have no problem either way: he was Jewish and would have looked Jewish however those terms are defined. My issue is in controlling myself when I hear "Jesus was a druid"....ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGHHHHH!!!! :mad:

[Orthodox Andrew]

Any race can have a ruddy complextion... asian, indonesian, middle eastern...

I find it greatly offensive that someone would want to make the Messiah not a Jew. He was a Jew from deep within Israel.

Christians have been trying to make Jesus into "not a Jew" for a long time now. One who wants to deny he was a Jew... well, simply is racist.
sorry, but it can't be put any other way. :(
I think it's foolish to deny he was Jewish. However, I think making a big deal about the ethnicity of God's human form on Earth is not the right thing to do. Just like we wouldn't focus on Christ's Manhood but rather his Humanhood, we shouldn't limit him to an ethnicity. He is God.:)

[Oblio]

Amin Andreas.

The important thing is that He took our humanity from the most Holy Theotokos and descended into Hades and led the captives and all of us that believe in Him to Salvation through the Mystery of the Resurrection.

[simchat_torah]

Its not that I necessarily am hung up on pushing forward the messiah as a Jew... but to me, anyone who wants to take away his Jewish ethnicity is borderline antisemetic, if not outright so.


shalom,
yafet

[Maximus]

Any race can have a ruddy complextion... asian, indonesian, middle eastern...

I find it greatly offensive that someone would want to make the Messiah not a Jew. He was a Jew from deep within Israel.

Christians have been trying to make Jesus into "not a Jew" for a long time now. One who wants to deny he was a Jew... well, simply is racist.
sorry, but it can't be put any other way. :(
Huh?

Are we importing some emotional baggage into this discussion?

Who said our Lord was not a Jew of the Middle East?

Who says all Jews have to conform to one racial stereotype?

Are you saying that absolutely, without exception, all first century Jews of Palestine were olive-skinned?

I also think you greatly misunderstand the meaning of "ruddy complexion."

[simchat_torah]

I have seen Jesus painted as an african, a caucasin, and a few odd paganistic things (such as druid). Some people have a weird fascination with making him into their pre-defined box.

I think if we view him from an honest historical perspective.... a Jewish Rabbi... this solves all the weird heresies (aka: jesus was a druid) garbage.

peace,
me again. ;)

[Reader Nilus]

I think it's foolish to deny he was Jewish. However, I think making a big deal about the ethnicity of God's human form on Earth is not the right thing to do. Just like we wouldn't focus on Christ's Manhood but rather his Humanhood, we shouldn't limit him to an ethnicity. He is God.:)But the brute fact is Our Lord was a man born in a certain place and time, and He was born in an ethnic group. To try to picture Jesus as a blonde haired Swede is not to take the Incarnation seriously.
I am in complete agreement with you, simchat_torah.
Jeff the Finn

[simchat_torah]

hahah... Jeff, this may be the one time you and I are in agreement ;)

shalom buddy.
-yafet

[Suzannah]

simchat: I am in total agreement with you too.....the "jesus was a druid" monster raised its ugly head at CF recently in the non-Christian forums...check it out for a daily dose of outrage. It galls me to the core every time I hear it...