What would Yeshua do?

[SpiritPsalmist]

This is a "Halloween" question. http://anchoredbygrace.com/smileys/mgduck.gif

I'm sorry if this come's across as ignorant but. . .
As a Christian I have for several yrs now, used that night to minister to the kid's coming to my door by giving out baggies filled with "un-goulish" trinkets/toys and tract. I believe this is what God had led me to do, however, since I'm now attending a Messianic congregation I am wondering how this day is handled by the Messianic. I know that those in the Christian community who are against any type of acknowledgement of this pagan day tend to just dissappear for the night, yet this does not seem to me to be what Yeshua would do. I personally believe He'd do something but I don't know what. As a Jew, how might He respond to children knocking on His door asking "trick or treat?"

[Rabbi Klein]

We turn off our lights so the children don't come a knockin.

R. Klein

[SpiritPsalmist]

We turn off our lights so the children don't come a knockin.

R. Klein
But is that the way Yeshua would handle it?

[Sephania]

Well first off , Many Jews view this as a Christian holiday, BelieveItOrNot!

Many have their "dress up" time at Purim, thus the children don't feel shorted.

Since Magic, idolotry, and other pagan practices that are forbidden in Torah, not to mention that children "demand" that you give them a treat else they will do something bad to you, ( not a uplifting spiritiual thing, let alone against Torah) it is most likely by observant Jews and MJs ignored so as not to glorify something not honoring G-d.

I really don't think that Yeshua would pay any mind to using this day to evangelize. If you want to reach children in your neighborhood, build a sukkah, invite them over for a sukkah party , a festival and pass out goodies but explain about sukkot. That I think Y'shua would approve of and it comes a few weeks before "H".

QUaffer I am happy to see you posting, we have had you on our list of Floridians praying for your safety through the storms. You haven't been around here much so I guess you didn't see them.

Shalom!!

[Rabbi Klein]

Yeshua, being a good Jewish Rabbi, would not have celebrated Halloween. I doubt he would have condoned children to practice this pagan festival either.

R. Klein

[Sephania]

Quaffer I know that you come from the school of "WWJD" but that school wasn't a Hebrew shul! ;) ANd that is why you are thinking ( in that frame of mind) that it would be ok as long as you used it to evangelize. but you must understand that you are givng this pagen holiday recognition, even though you think it is for good, it really is not. To us it is like any other day. If you want to share Messiah with the children do it on a day that he honored, not one that superstitious people invented.

:) Shalom!

[insaneinthebrain]

Quaffer I know that you come from the school of "WWJD" but that school wasn't a Hebrew shul! ;) ANd that is why you are thinking ( in that frame of mind) that it would be ok as long as you used it to evangelize. but you must understand that you are givng this pagen holiday recognition, even though you think it is for good, it really is not. To us it is like any other day. If you want to share Messiah with the children do it on a day that he honored, not one that superstitious people invented.

:) Shalom!
I tend to agree with this. I'm really not a big fan of acknowledging the holy days of false religions. It would be similar to spending the month of Ramadan witnessing because it's Ramadan. ;)

[Talmidah]

It would be similar to spending the month of Ramadan witnessing because it's Ramadan.
You mean we're not supposed to? :eek:

[ShirChadash]

Aw man. Tal, I guess that blows MY plans to come and visit with you all and street preach during ramadan. *shrug*



^_^

[CharlesYTK]

We turn off our lights so the children don't come a knockin.

R. Klein
We do pretty much the same. In the town where we used to live the synagogue offered an all day Marathon of Hebrew language. And many Christians would want to attend. So to weed them out, the Hebrew class was held on Hallowen. :D

I thought this was great. Makes one choose what is more important. It was a really good class by the way, about 7 hours of intense study and a number of fun breaks and food.

[Buccaneer]

As I said before. The core meaning of these days are only what you give them. There is nothing adherently evil about putting on a costume and raiding the neighborhood at a dedicated night for candy as long as you do nothing to glorify satan, belittle God or anything of the necromancy/witchcraft area. If you keep this day as a festival keep it as a nonreligious one. every day is the lord's day.

[SpiritPsalmist]

Well first off , Many Jews view this as a Christian holiday, BelieveItOrNot! Yikes! http://www.smilieland.com/graphics2/1280401.gif

Many have their "dress up" time at Purim, thus the children don't feel shorted. I'm really looking forward to experiencing Purim. It sounds like a lot of fun. http://www.smilieland.com/graphics2/gesicht14.gif

Since Magic, idolotry, and other pagan practices that are forbidden in Torah, not to mention that children "demand" that you give them a treat else they will do something bad to you, ( not a uplifting spiritiual thing, let alone against Torah) it is most likely by observant Jews and MJs ignored so as not to glorify something not honoring G-d. Of course you are right http://www.smilieland.com/graphics2/gesicht9.gif

I really don't think that Yeshua would pay any mind to using this day to evangelize. If you want to reach children in your neighborhood, build a sukkah, invite them over for a sukkah party , a festival and pass out goodies but explain about sukkot. That I think Y'shua would approve of and it comes a few weeks before "H". What a wonderful idea. I'm not prepared to do it this year but maybe next. http://www.smilieland.com/graphics2/gesicht10.gif

QUaffer I am happy to see you posting, we have had you on our list of Floridians praying for your safety through the storms. You haven't been around here much so I guess you didn't see them.

Shalom!!Thank you Zayit, no I did not see them. I appreciate very much that I had so much prayer. I have been very busy dodging the hurricane's and with the last one, Frances, I left the state, driving up to TN to stay with friends there. My car started giving me trouble and I did not have enough money to pay someone in TN to fix it so I ended up going another state over to see my family and my dad paid for the part and my brother in law fixed it so I could get back home. Then of course, they gave me money so I could get home.

My mobile home was basically untouched again, Praise God! Thanksfor your input to my question. http://www.smilieland.com/graphics/18aa.gif

[SpiritPsalmist]

We do pretty much the same. In the town where we used to live the synagogue offered an all day Marathon of Hebrew language. And many Christians would want to attend. So to weed them out, the Hebrew class was held on Hallowen. :D

I thought this was great. Makes one choose what is more important. It was a really good class by the way, about 7 hours of intense study and a number of fun breaks and food.
:scratch: Why would you want to keep the Christian's from the Marathon of Hebrew language?

[SpiritPsalmist]

Quaffer I know that you come from the school of "WWJD" but that school wasn't a Hebrew shul! ;) ANd that is why you are thinking ( in that frame of mind) that it would be ok as long as you used it to evangelize. but you must understand that you are givng this pagen holiday recognition, even though you think it is for good, it really is not. To us it is like any other day. If you want to share Messiah with the children do it on a day that he honored, not one that superstitious people invented.

:) Shalom!
Well, in the Christian church I felt it was ok but now that I'm attending a Messianic congregation I'm feeling that it is not right. I guess if I want to be like Yeshua, I must act like Yeshua. http://www.smilieland.com/graphics2/diamond_lg.gif I'm a diamond in the rough.

[CharlesYTK]

:scratch: Why would you want to keep the Christian's from the Marathon of Hebrew language?
It wasn't to exclude all gentiles but to filter the ones who really wanted to grow closer to Hashem and his people from those who were not really serious and prefered their Pagan stuff.

[CharlesYTK]

:scratch:

But what about this verse:
I Thessalonians 5:22
Abstain from all appearance of evil.

Halloween appears evil, so I'll stay away from it. :)We are a people who are to reflect Gods righteousness and Glory. Anything that diminishes his Glory is sin. Halloween certainly compromises that Glory.

[ShirChadash]

Bucc... I have been wondering. What do you think is the purpose of hallowe'en? Why do you feel it doesn't matter where something came from? You seem to disregard the reasoning that the custom of dressing up was adopted/created in the first place. So, what do you see as the purpose of dressing up today, traipsing from house to house of people that most often one doesn't know well, saying "trick or treat", and the giving of candies or any other "gifting" to those who come demanding them? :confused:

As I said before. The core meaning of these days are only what you give them. There is nothing adherently evil about putting on a costume and raiding the neighborhood at a dedicated night for candy as long as you do nothing to glorify satan, belittle God or anything of the necromancy/witchcraft area. If you keep this day as a festival keep it as a nonreligious one. every day is the lord's day.

[SpiritPsalmist]

We are a people who are to reflect Gods righteousness and Glory. Anything that diminishes his Glory is sin. Halloween certainly compromises that Glory.
Very true http://www.smilieland.com/graphics2/tier53.gif

[Zacharias]

We turn off our lights so the children don't come a knockin.

R. Klein

We go out shopping, that way we aren't home when they come knocking.

[Henaynei]

As HaShem started me on the path toward Torah, i.e. honoring His word rather than the clutural traditions I had learned to accept, Halloween was the first to go - for me once He showed me the roots both historically and even today spiritually it was a no brainer for me. That was nearly 30 years ago. We also went through the phases of going to the church "harvest alternative" on that night, until He convicted us about that, and even did the handing out tracts for a couple of years.

We eventually came to realize that that night is NOT optimum time to share the truth - there are many other days and opportunities during the year for that. HaShem told us to avoid even the appearance of condoning or participating in evio or the practices of other religions, and like it or not, believe it or not Halloween IS a religious holy day - for christianity and for many witchcraft practitioners. As I said, it is not my holy day, I do not honor or recognize it as having any validity in my life or practice :)

after Halloween, next came Christmas and even resurrection sunday - and all that years BEFORE ever hearing about MJism - we even had been keeping a form of Passover (as best as our abismal ignorance allowed) ON Passover for 7+ years before we ever heard of MJism or of believers following Torah.

But Christmas and Easter are topics for another season and I *do not* want to derail this thread :)

WWYD?? He would not participate in Halloween, a festival that dishonors the things Phillipians 4 tells us to lift up and seek:
Phillipians 4:8 In conclusion, brothers, focus your thoughts on what is true, noble, righteous, pure, lovable or admirable, on some virtue or on something praiseworthy. If Halloween does these things, then by all means, have at it :)
I beoieve He would rather encourage and invite folks to participate with Him in the holy days that HONOR HaShem and that strengthen our spititual selves!! :)

[P_G]

GGGGaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Another Halloween Thread


I thought we were looking for truth?

Something about being set apart.

Something about not being part of the world and all it's
little pagan practices?


I know you mean to do good with this but what you are really saying is this
"It's OK to do pagan things and celebrate pagan holidays so long as we put a little "christian" dressing on it"

You know if you put a party dress on an aligator she probably still wont make a great prom date!

Blessings

Pastor George :wave:

[SpiritPsalmist]

Pastor George, did you read my whole post? I'm still in transition mode into Messianic and to me it was an honest question. I know what I WAS doing in the past years I was doing because I believe God told me to. However, what was but now IS is something else and I'm re-thinking and conversing it over with God. I just wanted some thought from other Messianic's. Really, I meant no harm.

[Mary_Magdalene]

we usually go to our church (Baptist) and do the "harvest festival" thing. although, i believe this is the same thing as halloween, just called a different name. i am going to try to see if we can go out for pizza with the kids instead this year. even though the church has a "harvest festival" thingy goin' on, it is still halloween - especially when people in the choir show up wearing devil horns (what WERE they thinking???)

i just want to be set apart-so im going to bring up the pizza idea to my husband (he loovveess pizza!). :)

[Sephania]

Devil Horns? :eek: Yup, but all in good fun right? :rolleyes:

You are doing the right thing Girl! :) Why not make that pizza party even more special, I don't know how old your children are but if they can eat pizza they should be able to participate in a Bible jeopardy party. Just get some answers from the Bible and make them easy and have a first and second prize ( if you have more than two children, a prize level for each one). This will glorify HaShem as they learn more, stay inside safe and have good quality family time in a happy setting.

:)

[Sephania]

PG, you stretched the page to infinity and beyond! :eek:

[Mary_Magdalene]

Devil Horns? :eek: Yup, but all in good fun right? :rolleyes:

You are doing the right thing Girl! :) Why not make that pizza party even more special, I don't know how old your children are but if they can eat pizza they should be able to participate in a Bible jeopardy party. Just get some answers from the Bible and make them easy and have a first and second prize ( if you have more than two children, a prize level for each one). This will glorify HaShem as they learn more, stay inside safe and have good quality family time in a happy setting.

:)


That is so funny cause we just started playing bible jeopardy in the 5th grade bible study i teach-the kids love it! My own are too small for that though but they know their bible verses! I could try a really easy jeopardy with them....

my one year old has said two words...Daddy and G-d. Not even mommy!!!! But that is more of a blessing to me to hear her say G-d's name rather than mommy!! :clap:

[P_G]

Pastor George, did you read my whole post? I'm still in transition mode into Messianic and to me it was an honest question. I know what I WAS doing in the past years I was doing because I believe God told me to. However, what was but now IS is something else and I'm re-thinking and conversing it over with God. I just wanted some thought from other Messianic's. Really, I meant no harm.



No slap sis none at all really

OK here is my read on things and whether you call yourself Christian or Messianic not going to matter even a bit.

Halloween is now and always was the high holy day for all of the pagan religions. It has attachment to the most bizzare and ungodly of rituals even to the point of "passing children through the fire" Yes infant sacrafice by immolation. Hence the reason that in later dates we find in Europe that it was thought that Halloween was when the dead would walk the earth.

The Christianizing of this starts at about the same time when we see All Hallos Eve celebrated by the Catholic church. Still celebrating the dead only now the church is involved.

Today and I have been in the past part of this nonsense the evangelical church realizes that Halloween is simply not a good thing to be participating in. So to allow kids to not be "left out" they through things like "Harvest Party's" (Never mind that the children sacrificed in days gone by were for the harvest gods) Or they get cute and had "The Adams Family Party" Where ostensively we have the children dress up as animals like in Genesis and do stuff. All the while with a wink and a nod to the world, saying we are not so much unlike you after all huh wink wink nod nod nudge nudge grin.

Lets come to our senses!

This is a detestible pagan holiday. There is no reason for a beleiver to participate in it. None what soever. Sometimes being a believer means you give things up. We anxiously nod our head yes when those things are drinking, drugging or pornography. But when it's cute when it is acceptable by the world thats when we have a hard time with it.

Let Ha'shem speak to your heart on this matter. Not to worry too much we all grow and what seems like a painfuly slow rate. Where you are at I have been. All I can ask is that you at least take what I say with a grain of salt and put it away in the hiding place for the day that it seems senseable.

Blessings

Pastor George :preach:

[Sephania]

PG, I really don't think Quaffer came here to defend it, just wanted a Messianic POV. I think she completely understands now. It is amazing when you cut off 2/3's of the Bible what you can allow yourself to be convinced of if you believe it was for "them" and for "that olden time", exactly what HaSatan wants you to do.

It ain't easy being set apart, nor following on the narrow road, but at least we have a guarantee that it's the right one!

Bless you Quaffer for your wanting to learn and grow.

Forgive PG, I think he has seen the "other side" up close and is on fire to make sure others don't go there or aren't fooled into going there.

Shalom!!! :)

[P_G]

PG, I really don't think Quaffer came here to defend it, just wanted a Messianic POV. I think she completely understands now. It is amazing when you cut off 2/3's of the Bible what you can allow yourself to be convinced of if you believe it was for "them" and for "that olden time", exactly what HaSatan wants you to do.

It ain't easy being set apart, nor following on the narrow road, but at least we have a guarantee that it's the right one!

Bless you Quaffer for your wanting to learn and grow.

Forgive PG, I think he has seen the "other side" up close and is on fire to make sure others don't go there or aren't fooled into going there.

Shalom!!! :)

Honestly I am not railing against Quafer at all
I am stating my position on the subject.
And you are quite correct saying that I have a strong
opinion on it.

I do not seek forgiveness for this

Thanks

PG

[Sephania]

No, and I don't expect you to, I do understand your feelings, absolutely, I just didn't want her to be scared off, we all can be quite zealous over different points ;)

Shalom to you PG

[SpiritPsalmist]

I do understand completely PG. However, I was just seeking the Messianic point of view on the issue of greeting the children at the door. To me it just did not seem very God-like to dissappear for the evening or stay behind closed door's pretending we don't hear them or like some when I was growing up yelling at us to "go away" 'cause they don't celebrate such a wicked holiday.

I just want to use whatever is available to use to minister the love of Yeshua to the neighborhood and I did not view my handing out packet's of toy's and tracks as celebrating a wicked holiday but as greeting the children who knocked on my door with love and kindness and showing them mercy instead of judgment.

I do however, at this time, since I am moving into Messanic Judaism, feel that need's to change and I was looking for any thoughts from those who have been around longer than I. I thank everyone for their response. I do get the point.

[Sephania]

Quaffer dear, such a sweet and loving heart, I do understand you completely, I too used to do the same thing. But we have to also look at what totally we are teaching. Those children that come to your door come for one reason only, because their country, state, town and parents have sanctified this 'Holy" Day. There only goals is to get things for themselves, money,candy, certificates, something they deem worthwhile to knock on your door for. This is what all the ad, and stores and schools promise them.

Now I know you are looking to this as an oppurtunity, but what you don't see is that it is a trick that is being played on you, using your good heart, but no different than the lie Satan sold Havah ( Eve ) in the garden. Remember he is subtle, very subtle and will convince you that what you are doing IS for HaShem, but when you compare it to HaShem's word you see that it is a trick if you give a treat. IN essence what you are doing by putting in a tract with toys or candy, you are basically condoning the day in the same way that the early ( not earliest) church condoned "Easter" and all the pagan things that went with it by calling it something different.

Evil surrounds this holiday and we are to abstain from even the "Appearence" of evil. It is called conforming, and we are not to be conformed to the world. There are many other times and ways we can reach children. If you don't want to leave your house then don't . Stay out on your porch, play some gospel or Messianic music and to those who do venture up to your door you can explain why you aren't celebrating this holiday. Or leave a large poster on your door explaining it.

Remember our greatest witness is what others observe us doing. If the parents or other children see you handing out stuff, what sets you apart from the next house down? That is where I believe HaShem will want your witness to be, not on a peice of paper in a bag that most likely will get thrown away, and the person declared 'crazy' who littered their halowen bag with it.

We have to evaluate how we use the light and make it shine the brightest while it is still day.

Shalom! :)

[SpiritPsalmist]

Zayit,

As I said, I understand that my actions need to change in regards to this holiday, however, it did not seem and still does not seem that certain action's against the holiday were appropriate either. I guess leaving would be the best thing to do since if they knock even though the light's are off, ignoring them seem's quite the most unlike God thing to do :sigh: Truely it is not a holiday I especially like but I just want to respond as Yeshua would if they were knocking on His door.

I know that my thinking is still "Christionized" but that is slowly but surely being reshaped into more of what Christ would really do and not what the Christian church has taught me He would do. I do understand. . .really I do.