Is there more to salvation by grace alone?

[BornAgainChristian]

Hello all. Praise the Lord.


Well, I was reading the book of James yesterday, just to get some more knowledge on what to do, and 2:26 said "So also, faith without works is dead"


But, this is what caught my eye, also. I have the NIV Bible, and I was reading the foot note. It said:

"Understanding, like faith, is shown by how one lives. Specifically, understanding is demonstrated by a good life and good deeds. This is what Jesus taught (see Matthew 7:15-23)." (Italics made by NIV Bible comitee)


James also gave examples of how Abraham was saved, James said:


"Was not Abraham considered rightous for what he did when he offered up his son, Issac for a sacrifice?"-James 2:21

"You believe there is one God-Good! Even the demons believe that-and shudder."-James 2:19

So, here's a good explanation.

Mean people who have faith simply isn't going to Heaven. Remember what Jesus is going to say to the sheep:

"You have fed me when I was hungry, clothed me when I was naked, visited me when I was in prison, and gave me something to drink when I was thirsty."

James, also, said something about this. Here it is:

James 1:27: "Religon that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being poluted by the world"

James is saying that you can't engage in evil activities that Jesus condemed on his Sermon on the Mountain. He also is saying that a true Christian will be full of love.

So, faith without works is dead. But, by works, James means your personality, how you treat others, who was created in God's image. How one lives, how you treat others.


The reasoning out of this, is here. This is what James was trying to tell us before others twisted it so they wouldn't have to be nice. James was trying to say this:

Faith matters 50% in your salvation. But what also matters is how you treat others and also how you obey what Jesus said. That's another 50% of your salvation. True salvation come from Faith and works.

James wasn't saying that if we fall short of God's standard, we won't have salvation. He knows that himself and us have fallen short. What he's saying is that if you just don't try to live up to God's standard, being mean to others and paying no mind to what Jesus said, then that's not true Faith, that's dead Faith.

[rogsr]

I don't think there is a 50/50 ratio that God uses to judge whether or not we are saved. Paul said we are saved by faith, true. James said faith without works is dead, also true. By faith we are saved, but what do we with the rest of our lives? The answer is works. If someone is saved a seed is planted, but if they do nothing to cultivate it then the seed whithers away and dies. Many people come to faith and then fall out of it just as easily. They are who Jesus was talking about in the parable of the Planter and the Seed. Some Seeds fell among the thorns, and when the seeds grew they were choked out by the thorns.

We are saved by faith, and we are servants of God by our works.

It is possible to have faith with no works, but under most circumstances those people are called luke warm, a topic which Jesus also covered. It is not God's intention to just give us a seed, but also to have that seed grow into a huge mustard plant which gives shelter to creatures around us. What is the point of having a seed if you do not grow it into a plant or flower? It is works which help it to grow, therefore faith without works is dead.

Answer your question?

[BornAgainChristian]

I don't think there is a 50/50 ratio that God uses to judge whether or not we are saved. Paul said we are saved by faith, true. James said faith without works is dead, also true. By faith we are saved, but what do we with the rest of our lives? The answer is works. If someone is saved a seed is planted, but if they do nothing to cultivate it then the seed whithers away and dies. Many people come to faith and then fall out of it just as easily. They are who Jesus was talking about in the parable of the Planter and the Seed. Some Seeds fell among the thorns, and when the seeds grew they were choked out by the thorns.

We are saved by faith, and we are servants of God by our works.

It is possible to have faith with no works, but under most circumstances those people are called luke warm, a topic which Jesus also covered. It is not God's intention to just give us a seed, but also to have that seed grow into a huge mustard plant which gives shelter to creatures around us. What is the point of having a seed if you do not grow it into a plant or flower? It is works which help it to grow, therefore faith without works is dead.

Answer your question?

Thank you. You've answered it.

That 50% thing I was just using to make my point clearer. but you cleared it up.

People can have faith without works, but what James was saying is this:

People will loose faith if they don't preach or obey God's law.

But I'm still going to try my best to obey God's laws, though.


May Christ bless you.

[rogsr]

That 50% thing I was just using to make my point clearer.
It's ok to use analogies, but don't forget that no matter how accurate they may be they are never the full truth or rather 100% accurate:). Just a friendly peice of advice my friend.

Doing works is more about helping the suffering. God's law is covered by our faith because Christ says that if we are true followers we will do as He has commanded(The Two Great Commandments -- Love God, and love neighbors--is the Law). Doing works is having faith because by doing works to help the suffering you are fulfilling the Law. Get it. They go together..can't have one without the other.

Questions are welcome?

Peace-

[Caelum]

True faith produces good works. Good works do not save anyone. To think that you have the power to work yourself to salvation would be denying the importance of Jesus's sacrifice. No one can save themselves, if so, there would be no "use" for Jesus.

What James is trying to say here, is that with true faith comes true intentions, with true intentions comes good works....good works are a PRODUCT of faith
true faith in christ + good intentions = good works


This is all confusing, especially with excerpts such as:

James 2:24 "You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone."

As Martin Luther said...he is saying that people are justified by faith alone, but not by a faith that is alone. Genuine faith will produce good deeds, but only faith in Christ saves.


Hope that helps!

[DawnTillery]

James2:14-26 is a good section to read on faith through works.

1. Remember we have works WITH God not FOR GOD. Sometimes thats confusing, we rush around doing all this stuff for God and it fails because thats not what HE has asked us to do, He wants us to do our works WITH HIM. He will let you know, the closer you get to Him by reading the bible and through prayer.

[BornAgainChristian]

Thanks for everyone's help! :wave: I was confused, but now I get it. Thanks! :)

[TheListener]

The book of James is also known as "50 tips for Christian living". They are guidelines as explained and works are a product of faith, not the other way around. The book isn't known as "50 laws you shall never tamper with and always obey". If it were, I know I wouldn't be where I am today. :)

[AudioArtist]

To be honest, I don't get it.

If we are saved by faith alone, then at means members of the KKK, or bigoted mean-spirit Christians, are saved-they sure seem to believe strongly in Jesus, but they treat others badly.

I think what James says is quite clear: merely having belief in Jesus is not enough. DEMONS believe in Jesus! It is a combination of faith and through faith in Christ, FOLLOWING Him, that saves. Remember, Christians will be judged just like everyone else as it says in Peter (though with a judgement of grace.)

[theFijian]

To be honest, I don't get it.

If we are saved by faith alone, then at means members of the KKK, or bigoted mean-spirit Christians, are saved-they sure seem to believe strongly in Jesus, but they treat others badly.

I think what James says is quite clear: merely having belief in Jesus is not enough. DEMONS believe in Jesus! It is a combination of faith and through faith in Christ, FOLLOWING Him, that saves. Remember, Christians will be judged just like everyone else as it says in Peter (though with a judgement of grace.)The key word here is Grace, everything to do with our salvation is through grace. It is surely more than just believing as you say, it is also trusting and submitting to Christ as he is our Lord. The demons do not bow the knee before Christ so they do not aknowledge him as Lord.

Our salvation is through grace and the work on the cross was completed without any effort of ours, our sanctification however does require effort on our part.

[annabanana5]

Just wanted to add my two bits, Matthew 22:37-39 "Jesus Replied, Love the lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind...And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself." Faith (loving and beliving in God)+Works (Loving and doing for others) When I accepted Christ as my personal savior I was filled with his grace and love, it took me awhile to realize that I had so much of his love that I have to give some of it away, and by loving others I am also loving God.

[twistedsketch]

James also gave examples of how Abraham was saved, James said:


"Was not Abraham considered rightous for what he did when he offered up his son, Issac for a sacrifice?"-James 2:21


OK, but let's explore the rest of the Abraham story.

"By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had received the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son, even though God had said to him, 'It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.' Abraham reasoned that God could raise the dead, and figuratively speaking, he did receive Isaac back from death." - Hebrews 11:17-19

Abraham's work was a faith response to God's instruction and promises. He believed, and therefore he did. He believed God enough to act. If you do 50/50, or even 90/10, that is like saying "Jesus isn't enough, and I need to finish what He started." That is totally different from a faith response. You trust Jesus 100% for salvation, and let God do His work (Eph 2:8-10). You obey because of Him, out of love for Him, because He bridged the gap between you and God 100%.

Also, consider these verses:

"What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter? If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about--but not before God. What does the Scripture say? 'Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.'
Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness." - Romans 4:1-5

"Then they asked him, 'What must we do to do the works God requires?'
Jesus answered, 'The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.' " - John 6:28-29