Unrepentant Christian - Is that even possible?

[Lotar]

I was reading a thread where Christians were listing sins that they committed and then at the end would write "and I'm not sorry." One poster wrote that they did things that the knew God disapproves of and were not sorry, and it's okay because they love Jesus and that's all that matters.

What do you believe, is it possible to be unrepentant and a justified before God?

I will post my thoughts latter.

[InnerPhyre]

No. All have sinned, but how can we be called justified if we don't care about the pain our sins have caused our Lord who we love more than our own lives? We must repent for our sins. We shouldn't let our sins give us such guilt that it keeps us FROM the Lord, but I don't see how anyone, knowing the death Jesus endured for us, couldn't feel remorse in some form for their sins.

[Lotar]

Let me throw out a few verses to move people in the right direction ;)

John 14:15
"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.


1 John 2:3-4
By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

[Reformationist]

I was reading a thread where Christians were listing sins that they committed and then at the end would write "and I'm not sorry.":eek:

One poster wrote that they did things that the knew God disapproves of and were not sorry, and it's okay because they love Jesus and that's all that matters.Sounds like antinominianism to me.

What do you believe, is it possible to be unrepentant and a justified before God?Our justification is not dependent upon our repentence. However, as the Holy Spirit works in us, revealing more and more of our sinfulness to us and creating in us a desire to be obedient to God in all areas of our lives we will grow in holiness and desire to put these things off. I am not God so I, of course, do not know the heart of other people. I don't even know the fullness of my own motivations. However, from the outward perspective that we are in I would say that those who feel no remorse about violating God's Law should question the genuineness of their own profession of faith.

God bless,
Don

[dsdumpling]

I think that "unrepentant christian" is an oxymoron. Like "jumbo shrimp".

[Lotar]

:eek:

Sounds like antinominianism to me. I can't say I was supprised by the thread, but I was certiantly saddened by it. The "seeker friendly" churches continually teach "all you need is Jesus" but neglect to teach the of fruits that flow from saving faith. This heretical view of salvation is growing more and more rampant in today's Church.


Our justification is not dependent upon our repentence. However, as the Holy Spirit works in us, revealing more and more of our sinfulness to us and creating in us a desire to be obedient to God in all areas of our lives we will grow in holiness and desire to put these things off. I am not God so I, of course, do not know the heart of other people. I don't even know the fullness of my own motivations. However, from the outward perspective that we are in I would say that those who feel no remorse about violating God's Law should question the genuineness of their own profession of faith.

God bless,
Don
Luke 13:3
"I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.

2 Corinthians 7:9-10
I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to the point of repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to the will of God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us.
For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.


The bible clear teaches that we must repent in order to be justified, and it clearly teaches that it is God who brings us to this repentance. If we do not repent, we cannot be forgiven. If we are not forgiven, then we are not justified. Repentance is part of faith, it is part of what the difference is between belief and faith, so salvation is dependant upon our repentance. It is not because it is some work we do in order to justify ourselves, because if God does not draw us we will not come to repentance. God leads us to repent, so that He may forgive us.

[Ron S]

Hebrews 10:26-27

If we sin deliberately after receiving knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries

[Reformationist]

Luke 13:3
"I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.

2 Corinthians 7:9-10
I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to the point of repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to the will of God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us.
For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.


The bible clear teaches that we must repent in order to be justified, and it clearly teaches that it is God who brings us to this repentance.

So you think we are justified because we repent?

If we do not repent, we cannot be forgiven.

So you think we are forgiven because we repent?

Repentance is part of faith, it is part of what the difference is between belief and faith, so salvation is dependant upon our repentance.

So repentence is a necessary condition for salvation? You don't believe in salvation by the grace of God?

It is not because it is some work we do in order to justify ourselves, because if God does not draw us we will not come to repentance. God leads us to repent, so that He may forgive us.
Okay. But this shows that you believe repentence comes before justification and that, in fact, God justifies us based on the fact that we repent. Is that what you believe?

God bless

[seebs]

Are you sure that they were unrepentant of things they knew were sins, rather than, say, unconvinced that these things were sins?

I don't think I've ever in my life seen someone recognize something as sin and not be repentant of it, but I've seen a lot of people mistaken about what is or isn't sin... It's a recurring theme, really.

[TwinCrier]

Yes. We are saved by God's grace, and when we sin, we need to repent and get right with God. This can takes years for some people. We call these peole backsliden. If they remain unrepentant, God may choose to remove them from Earth.

[kdet]

Are you sure that they were unrepentant of things they knew were sins, rather than, say, unconvinced that these things were sins?

I don't think I've ever in my life seen someone recognize something as sin and not be repentant of it, but I've seen a lot of people mistaken about what is or isn't sin... It's a recurring theme, really.
I read a post from a person today that said she drinks smokes and swears and is not sorry for it..that sounds unrepentant to me :(

[Lotar]

So you think we are justified because we repent?



So you think we are forgiven because we repent?


So repentence is a necessary condition for salvation? You don't believe in salvation by the grace of God?

Are we saved because we are justified? Is justification a condition for salvation?

It is not really what happens first, but that it will happen. It is not like there is a time line. When God draws us to Him and gives us His Grace and faith, we repent, we are forgiven, we are regenerated, and we are justified. It all takes place at the same time. Afterwards, the Christian will continue to repent and to produce the fruits that are the product of their faith. It is impossible to be unrepentant and justified, just as it is impossible to remain unregenerated and justified.

Salvation is by God's grace alone.


Okay. But this shows that you believe repentence comes before justification and that, in fact, God justifies us based on the fact that we repent. Is that what you believe?

God bless

I understand that I was not quite clear, I do not believe it happens before, it is when it happens. God chooses who He will draw unto Himself, and only those that He calls will repent, for we are dead in our sins and love the darkness until He regenerates us.

[Lotar]

Are you sure that they were unrepentant of things they knew were sins, rather than, say, unconvinced that these things were sins?

I don't think I've ever in my life seen someone recognize something as sin and not be repentant of it, but I've seen a lot of people mistaken about what is or isn't sin... It's a recurring theme, really.
Some listed sins they may not have known were sins, but some stated that they knew that the things they listed were sins.

[seebs]

I read a post from a person today that said she drinks smokes and swears and is not sorry for it..that sounds unrepentant to me :(

Yes, but did she say she thought these things were sins?

There is a huge difference between someone who doesn't accept my belief that a behavior is sinful, and someone who agrees with me, but is unrepentant.

As an example, consider a group of clergy who banded together because there was discussion of requiring clergy not to own slaves. They fought and fought for the "right" to hold slaves. To us, they look like unrepentant sinners... but they didn't see any sins to repent of, just normal human behaviors which they thought were consistent with Biblical teachings.

[seebs]

Some listed sins they may not have known were sins, but some stated that they knew that the things they listed were sins.

And do they mean "considered to be sins by lots of people", or "actually offensive to God"?

[Breetai]

By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him 'nuff said...

Jesus saves! But....I think there are a lot of professing Christians out there who aren't really Christians.

[Lotar]

And do they mean "considered to be sins by lots of people", or "actually offensive to God"?
At least one said straight out that they knew that God does not like it. But despite that, what I really want to discuss is whether a person can remain unrepentant and be a Christian.

[kdet]

Yes, but did she say she thought these things were sins?

There is a huge difference between someone who doesn't accept my belief that a behavior is sinful, and someone who agrees with me, but is unrepentant.

As an example, consider a group of clergy who banded together because there was discussion of requiring clergy not to own slaves. They fought and fought for the "right" to hold slaves. To us, they look like unrepentant sinners... but they didn't see any sins to repent of, just normal human behaviors which they thought were consistent with Biblical teachings.
Seebs I grant you some things may not be clearly be seen as "sins" but I think that most of us would agree that the Bible gives us the instruction that we are to not engage in the things of this world. That we are to show ourselves worthy of Christ, that we are not to do things that are harmful to our bodies.
How can we be of this world and be of Christ at the same time?

[kdet]

At least one said straight out that they knew that God does not like it. But despite that, what I really want to discuss is whether a person can remain unrepentant and be a Christian.
IMO I think that the Holy Spirit convicts us when we do something outside the Will of God and therefore how can we remain unrepentant?

[seebs]

At least one said straight out that they knew that God does not like it. But despite that, what I really want to discuss is whether a person can remain unrepentant and be a Christian.

Okay.

Fair enough. My answer is "yes", because I've seen it done repeatedly. It can't last forever, but it can last a long time.

[seebs]

Seebs I grant you some things may not be clearly be seen as "sins" but I think that most of us would agree that the Bible gives us the instruction that we are to not engage in the things of this world. That we are to show ourselves worthy of Christ, that we are not to do things that are harmful to our bodies.
How can we be of this world and be of Christ at the same time?

This is an interesting question, and a difficult one simply because most Christians do at least some things which are, to someone else, "obviously" incompatible with Christianity. I know people who are frequently very, very, insulting and rude to others. It seems "obvious" to me that this is incompatible with Christianity, but I see it anyway. I know people who use birth control, I know people who swear, I know people who listen to rock music... And yet, I find that many of these people are powerful witnesses for God, because the things they do don't seem to corrupt them.

[Reformationist]

Are we saved because we are justified?
No. We are saved because Christ appeased the wrath of the Father against the iniquity of His elect and God imputes to them the merit for His vicarious atonement. It is this imputation of Christ's righteousness by which we are justified before the Father.

Is justification a condition for salvation?
Yes.

It is not really what happens first, but that it will happen. It is not like there is a time line. When God draws us to Him and gives us His Grace and faith, we repent, we are forgiven, we are regenerated, and we are justified. It all takes place at the same time.
I agree completely.

Afterwards, the Christian will continue to repent and to produce the fruits that are the product of their faith. It is impossible to be unrepentant and justified, just as it is impossible to remain unregenerated and justified.
Well, I would agree with this so long as we qualify that being "unrepentant" isn't determined by the opinion of man who only sees outward works.

Salvation is by God's grace alone.
So it is not because we repent?

I understand that I was not quite clear, I do not believe it happens before, it is when it happens. God chooses who He will draw unto Himself, and only those that He calls will repent, for we are dead in our sins and love the darkness until He regenerates us.
I would agree with this completely. And, despite the simultaneous spiritual endowment of these salvitic graces I do believe there is a temporal order. And, to fully address this we would have to speak of salvation as the Bible does, i.e., in a past, present, future way.

God bless

[Lotar]

No. We are saved because Christ appeased the wrath of the Father against the iniquity of His elect and God imputes to them the merit for His vicarious atonement. It is this imputation of Christ's righteousness by which we are justified before the Father.

I agree.


Well, I would agree with this so long as we qualify that being "unrepentant" isn't determined by the opinion of man who only sees outward works.

Again I agree. Only God knows if they are repentant or not.


So it is not because we repent?

nope


I would agree with this completely. And, despite the simultaneous spiritual endowment of these salvitic graces I do believe there is a temporal order. And, to fully address this we would have to speak of salvation as the Bible does, i.e., in a past, present, future way.

God bless

Yes, salvation is obtained immediately, but our walk has just begun.

[Reformationist]

Yes, salvation is obtained immediately, but our walk has just begun.
Thank you, O Lord, that we do not walk alone.:bow:

God bless

[InnerPhyre]

Hebrews 10:26-27

"If we sin deliberately after receiving knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries."

[Christi]

I was reading a thread where Christians were listing sins that they committed and then at the end would write "and I'm not sorry." One poster wrote that they did things that the knew God disapproves of and were not sorry, and it's okay because they love Jesus and that's all that matters.

What do you believe, is it possible to be unrepentant and a justified before God?

I will post my thoughts latter.
Maybe the original poster of the thread could clarify better than me, but I don't think she (or any of the subsequent Christian posters, myself included) meant that we weren't sorry for our sins.

In the paragraph preceeding her list she explained how she was tired of being judgemental, and using the Bible to hit others over the head with, and putting on a show so she would be accepted by the more self-righteous ones among us. She said she was no longer going to be like that.....and I believe that's what she wasn't sorry for.

People went on to admit things about themselves that they struggle with. Some may or may not be sorry, and I have no idea whether they are repentant or not. As for myself, yes, I admitted I smoke cigarettes. I have quit and started back a zillion times. I hate that I haven't won that struggle yet, and I pray about it everyday. I didn't say I wasn't sorry for that, though. I think people were admitting they were human, and they weren't Super Christians, and when someone brought up this issue of not being sorry, it was addressed, and none of the Christians who replied said that they were saying they weren't sorry for their sins.

But you must admit, it does make a wonderful opportunity for another thread to speculate on the salvation of others. ;)

[ByzantineDixie]

My husband and I had a good conversation about this question and came to this conclusion. That actual act of non-repentance (basically thumbing your nose at God) for one sin does not negate one's salvation however...its a big step down that slippery slope of one trading away one's salvation for the treasures of this world. :eek:

But you must admit, it does make a wonderful opportunity for another thread to speculate on the salvation of others. ;)

LOL!!! Ah...the frustration of the concept of "invisible Church"! Inquiring minds want to KNOW!!! And that includes me! :D

The beauty in this example is that if we know someone who is unrepentant we have the opportunity to minister to them and share the LAW to help them recognize the impact of their offense. Once they recognize their error, they can be soothed with the GOSPEL message.

I realize this conclusion won't work for the "once saved always saved" gang--but I think the question isn't as difficult from their vantage point either! ;)

Peace y'all

Rose

[countrymousenc]

My 2 cents:

It isn't possible to be forever unrepentant and Christian (in a true sense), but it is possible to be temporarily mule-headed.

[ByzantineDixie]

My 2 cents:

It isn't possible to be forever unrepentant and Christian (in a true sense), but it is possible to be temporarily mule-headed.

Being originally from Missouri...I like and can relate to your 2 cents! :D

Peace

Rose

[Christi]

My husband and I had a good conversation about this question and came to this conclusion. That actual act of non-repentance (basically thumbing your nose at God) for one sin does not negate one's salvation however...its a big step down that slippery slope of one trading away one's salvation for the treasures of this world. :eek:



LOL!!! Ah...the frustration of the concept of "invisible Church"! Inquiring minds want to KNOW!!! And that includes me! :D

The beauty in this example is that if we know someone who is unrepentant we have the opportunity to minister to them and share the LAW to help them recognize the impact of their offense. Once they recognize their error, they can be soothed with the GOSPEL message.

I realize this conclusion won't work for the "once saved always saved" gang--but I think the question isn't as difficult from their vantage point either! ;)

Peace y'all

Rose
I agree with that. I just wanted to point out that what was seen by some as "unrepentant sinners" bragging, may have been just a misunderstanding. In my case it certainly was, I am all to well aware of my sins and struggle with them daily. Paul only said he was the worst of sinners, because he hadn't met me. :cry: I do think all too often "sharing the LAW to help someone" as a means of ministry, doesn't come across that way. I also think less often (I honestly hope) people do it out of self-righteousness or their own personal prejudice. That has really been a struggle for me in the past, but God in His gentle firmness has kept me busy with my own "thorns" these days, so I have less stomach for ferreting out the sins of others. At any rate, hopefully it was just a misunderstanding from all sides on that thread.:prayer:

[msjones21]

Amazing. My "ungodly" thread on the News & Current Events forum has already carried over onto another forum. I'm famous!

I think my post was taken WAY out of context, but I'm not surprised I'm being judged and condemned for it. Nobody likes an open-minded Christian. I never said "I like fornicating, taking the Lord's name in vain, and stealing from convenient stores and I'm not sorry".

I was addressing the point that someone told me I'm not a Christian because I smoke, which is ludicrous. Is smoking a sin? I guess you could say it's damaging the temple but if that's the case all of those gluttonous Baptists should stop eating at the all you can eat buffets after church on Sundays because overeating damages the temple as well.

Why should I be sorry for reading Harry Potter or liking gay people? Do I have to be ridiculously intolerant and cruel to be a repentant Christian? It is absurd how some of you think drinking is a sin and if someone else drinks and doesn't feel convicted you think they're not as "good" a Christian as you are. Maybe you engage in pre-marital sex and don't feel convicted about it, does that make you "less" of a Christian than someone who is abstaining? So what if I snicker when someone tells a dirty joke? Are some of you so good that you wouldn't do the same? I'm glad I'm not like that. You see I know I'm a sinner in need of a Savior, but I also know that I am no better than anyone else and I was tired of treating others as if I was somehow above them.

Just remember, all of your sins (including judging others!) sent Jesus to the cross as well as mine and everyone since the beginning of time until the day God decides to wipe out the human race. You're not any better than me and I'm not any better than you. I'd just like to think I'm a bit more loving and compassionate.

[ByzantineDixie]

I agree with that. I just wanted to point out that what was seen by some as "unrepentant sinners" bragging, may have been just a misunderstanding. ... :prayer:


You and I are on the same page...I was unaware of the precipitating post for this one (still am for that matter)...but I have to admit the OP poses an interesting hypothetical question.

We all sin and fall short...for some of us have repeated sin. Then there is the sin John Doe thinks we have that we do not think is sin. I never included any of this in my assessment of the OP. I simply reflected on the post as written...unrepentant (real) sin.

I hope one day to reach the level of spiritual maturity to be able to say what you have.
Paul only said he was the worst of sinners, because he hadn't met me. :cry:

Sister, the Holy Spirit is doing some mighty work in you! :clap:

Peace

Rose

[kdet]

MSJOnes let me say that YOU were not the poster I was referring to. There was another poster in that thread that made it clear that she did things that most of us would feel convicted over doing and yet she claimed to not be sorry for it. Of course that is between her and God. It just saddens me that so many young people are so convinced that all they have to do is label themselves "Christian" and preach love and yet not keep God's commandments. They don't walk the walk...so to speak.
Our relationship with God,IMO is one of His giving us His love and Blessings and us living for Him daily. Living for Him daily does not include living for the things of this world. Do I do things I shouldn't do, of course, I'm human. But I also strive to NOT do those things...every day I am trying to be better, to do better and not to "excuse" away the things I do that I know is not pleasing to God.
I'm sorry that yuo misunderstood my post and thought I was referring to you.
Much love
Kitty

[Lotar]

Christi and MsJones, did I mention your names? Did either of you post that you knew you were committing sin and didn't care?

Other than a couple of offtrack posts, this thread was about a theological view point, not specifically about that thread. I stated that I cannot truely know what is in someone's heart and judge if they are unrepentant.

Never the less, we are told in scripture to convict our fellow Christians of aparrent sin in their lives. It's not our place to judge, but it is our responsibility to convict. I would not think I was somehow better than someone else, I know very well that any goodness in me is God's work alone. If I did have a Christiann friend who was fornicating, I would convict them in a biblical and loving way, because it is the right thing to do.

I do not believe that smoking or drinking is a sin, I don't care if someone like Harry Potter, and I think it is proper to treat all unbelievers with love and respect, no matter what their sin is. No, I am not judging you.

[msjones21]

Lotar and Sweetkitty, I did not mean to imply you were both judging me. I do, however, know this thread was in response to my post on the News forum. I have to admit, I was frustrated by the message this thread was trying to convey. It made me feel like you were implying I'm not a Christian because I smoke and like Harry Potter.

You are probably also aware that most of the people who responded to my thread are non-theists so their confessions may seem a tad more "scandalous" than the others. I, personally, think it was a great thread. With the exception of a scant handful of people who wanted to be party poopers and condemn all of us vile heathen HP reading, Marlboro smoking, dirty joke telling sinners the thread was very harmonious.

[Christi]

Lotar, I didn't mean to imply that I felt you were speaking specifically of anyone, and it is a very interesting theological question. Some of the posts in between gave me the impression that maybe there had been a misunderstanding, and I was only trying to clear that up if it were, in fact, the case. I think many of the posters who followed suit with "I'm not sorry" didn't mean they weren't sorry for their sins. (So, gee, I guess I coulda just said that with alot less words, right?! :))
Oh, and Luthers Rose, thank you so much for your kind words, I was thinking the same about you.

[Terri]

I'd just like to think I'm a bit more loving and compassionate.
Well, at least your honest. :D

Within that statement lies what I see as a major problem.

Thinking that you are somehow superior to others. It is just meaningless propaganda to say that others hate because of what they believe.

I believe that sins are wrong and if I choose to tell someone that I think their sin is wrong that does not mean that I love them any less than you do. ;)

The fact that people buy into this propaganda is very sad. The "you don't like my sin so therefore you hate me" is a huge lie!! I'm sorry if you don't see that.

[Lotar]

True that

[BarbB]

This thread gives me hope for the future of the church. I can barely tolerate the threads in the News and Politics forums now. One cannot discern the Christians from the Lions. Because of the current postings in News, etc. I did vote "I don't know" though I believe in my heart that you cannot be unrepentant and Christian. I don't believe that smoking is a sin - I stopped because of emphysema, not because I wanted to. (So please, Christi, stop before you are hurt physically by it! :cry: ) But we are warned in the Bible not to pollute our minds and yet so many carnal Christians continue to fill their minds (and thus their hearts) with trashy novels, movies, music, alcohol, drugs and insist that it does them no harm. Maybe not, but it can destroy their Christian testimony to non-Christians. How is that good?

Thanks for making me think Lotar! You usually do! :hug:

I think that we all need to pray for Jesus' help in preparing his Bride, because we are obviously not doing too well on our own! :bow:

[Col]

As Christians we repent and ask for forgiveness of sins, which by God's grace is granted. However as we are mere mortals, we are prone to sin again, however, fortunately our God is a patient and forgiving God. And as such we spend our Christian life aware of sin, trying our best to resist and when we fall we repent and ask forgiveness. This isn't a licence to sin as God will know your inent and whether you are sincere in your repentance. You will only fool yourself otherwise.
Matthew 7:21 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=MATT+7:21&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on)
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

So to be a Christian is to live an abundant life within the boundaries of behaviour pleasing to God. This is more liberating than constricting as you know where you stand. By the same token you also are very aware when you over step the boundaries and sin. It is then that you need to ask forgiveness.

On the other hand, as a non-Christian you fail to recognise sin and proceed happily with the assumption that, "hey I'm not hurting anyone". But it is only when you truly become a Christian that you all of a sudden realise that you are hurting someone and that someone is the most important someone; God.
We all sin but it is the "intent" which separates a Christian and a non-Christian.

It seems that the trend of the 21st centrury is for people who find the Christian path a "little too narrow", to simply rationalise there sins, selectively edit the Bible, or reinterperet scripture with a political correctness spin on it, all under the premise of being "tolerant" or " inclusive". Jesus was never "tolerant" of sin, He forgave sins and instructed those forgiven, to sin no more. Just as God forgives our sins today and puts it on our hearts to sin no more. He never went out of his way to be inclusive per sa, as He didn't chop and change his theology to suit people, He simply said " follow me", or in other words do as I do, live as I live, behave how I behave. It is a life changing decision to follow Christ, not a decision that you take your old life along and fashion the theology to suit.

Anyway sorry to ramble, this was going to be a short to the point post. so here it is. Being a Christian means trying hard to follow Christ, however because we are imperfect beings, we also spend a great deal of our Christian life asking forgiveness and repenting of sins that we inevitably commit.

An unprepentant Christian is an oxymoron. An unrepentant Christian is simply someone who is unrepentant, not a Christian.

Bless Ya
Col :) <><

[JVAC]

Unrepentant Christian - Is that even possible?


No

[PatrickM]

Unrepentent up to what point? Up to death? This could change my vote!

[ChristianRocks]

I really can't fathom an unrepentant Christian myself, but it may because they are ignorant to the truth? Or at least they don't want to admit there is a problem, *shrug* Maybe. But what is repentance? I guess it is the changing of the mind. When once you desired the things of the world (cigarettes, beer) you now despise them. That is true repentance. You see that you are living by your old man and not by Christ. Indeed, A death of our old man must occur in order for us to be free from sins chains, for it is what we all struggle with, as Christians. Young and old :)

So what is death? Death is weakness produced to its extremity - weakness, sickness, death. Death means utter weakness; it means you are weak to such a point that you can become no weaker. That I have a body of death in relation to God's will means that I am so weak in regard to serving God, so utterly weak, that I am reduced to a point of dire helplessness. What we need to realize is that we are not weak enough. I know I'm not. I still struggle with my individuality. I find myself repenting and turnign from my sin constantly. Remember Paul? "O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me out of the body of this death?" cried Paul, and it is good when anyone cries out as he did. There is nothing more musical in the ears of the Lord. This cry is the most spiritual and the most scriptural cry a man can utter. He only utters it when he knows he can do nothing, and gives up making any further resolutions. We all struggle with sin, but once we realize we are helpless to help ourselves, we submit to God. Paul, up to this point whenever he failed he made a new resolution and doubled and redoubled his will-power. At last he discovers there is no use in his making up his mind any more, and he cries out in desperation: "O wretched man that I am !" Like a man who suddenly awakes to find himself in a burning building, his cry is now for help, for he has come to the point where he despairs of himself. Oh, that I would see the same! :pray:

On the other hand, as a non-Christian you fail to recognise sin and proceed happily with the assumption that, "hey I'm not hurting anyone". But it is only when you truly become a Christian that you all of a sudden realise that you are hurting someone and that someone is the most important someone; God.
We all sin but it is the "intent" which separates a Christian and a non-Christian.

Amen to that! We live by the Spirit of Christ Jesus, and not our Soul-Life. The Spirit directs us in how to live, not ourselves. Like I said earlier, I still struggle with the idea of giving myself fully to God. I'm 20 years old and I see kids my age doing whatever they please, its so hard! :( :prayer:

Then I remember Living in the Spirit means that I trust the Holy Spirit to do in me what I cannot do myself. This life is completely different from the life I would naturally live of myself. Each time I am faced with a new demand from the Lord, I look to Him to do in me what He requires of me. Those of you out there struggling with with smoking, simply ask yourself. Do you think Jesus, the Person Living in you, would smoke? It is a temple and for good reason. It is not a case of trying but of trusting; not of struggling but of resting in Him. If I have a hasty temper, impure thoughts, a quick tongue or a critical spirit, I shall not set out with a determined effort to change myself, but, reckoning myself dead in Christ to these things, I shall look to the Spirit of God to produce in me the needed purity or humility or meekness. This is what it means to "stand still, and see the salvation of the Lord, which he will work for you. 13 "Moses answered the people, "Do not be afraid. Stand firm and you will see the deliverance the LORD will bring you today. The Egyptians you see today you will never see again." Exod. 14:13.

We can do all things through Christ who strengthens us, let us abide in that and walk in the Spirit. :)

God Bless

[Teshi]

I think a few people in this thread are confusing "repenting" and "repenting of the things my denomination/my own personal beliefs say are sins."

[Marissa]

.

[New_Wineskin]

How could they have become a Christian if they did not repent ?


I was reading a thread where Christians were listing sins that they committed and then at the end would write "and I'm not sorry." One poster wrote that they did things that the knew God disapproves of and were not sorry, and it's okay because they love Jesus and that's all that matters.

What do you believe, is it possible to be unrepentant and a justified before God?

I will post my thoughts latter.

Could you post the thread that you saw this in ? I have never read a thread such as that and would like to have a better idea about which you are talking .

[nb_christseeker]

The first word that Jesus preached in his ministry is REPENT.
I think that makes it pretty **** clear.

[nb_christseeker]

sorry about the cussing implication. kinda ironic there =)

[nb_christseeker]

when you repent, its not just of 1 sin, but of being sinful period. you repent that you are going down the wrong road that leads to death, and you're turning around to walk on the road that goes to life. Think about how Paul repented. one moment he's vehemently pursuing killing the Christians, the next he is an apostle, sharing the good news with everyone, even being martyred. That's such a clear example of repentance... Even if I sin a little sin, I hope my repentance is that drastic.

Peace be with y'allz

[Asaph]

Of course it's possible. Further than that, it's not only possible, but it is highly probable. We are too quick to compare ourselves amongst ourselves when absolute perfection is the real standard.

Rom 5:7-11
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
NKJV

So what do we do? We fall prostrate before the King and thank Him with all our might for His Grace and Mercy.

Shalom,
Asaph

[Simon_Templar]

I guess I'd say its possible to be an unrepentant christian, but I think one will eventually win out over the other.

Its possible for a christian to be convicted of sin by the Spirit and to resist changing it, or to try to ignore it. Eventually though God will hound them to the point that they repent. If someone makes a lifestyle of refusing to repent, I think eventually the Spirit will stop convicting them, lets just say, thats a dangerous place to be ;)

[Asaph]

I guess I'd say its possible to be an unrepentant christian, but I think one will eventually win out over the other.

Its possible for a christian to be convicted of sin by the Spirit and to resist changing it, or to try to ignore it. Eventually though God will hound them to the point that they repent. If someone makes a lifestyle of refusing to repent, I think eventually the Spirit will stop convicting them, lets just say, thats a dangerous place to be ;)
Absolutely. Sometimes though I just think we humans for one: judge ourselves by ourselves instead of by the One who is judge, and two; we pay way more attention to the sin than we do the Savior. When all is said and done after all, the Gospel is Good News....:clap:

Grace and great Joy,
Asaph

[lovespeace]

Hmmm..aren't we all non repentant over some things in our lives. Haven't met anyone who is able to say they please God with everything they do.

[nb_christseeker]

1Jo 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1Jo 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
1Jo 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Does this apply at all?

[Asaph]

1Jo 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1Jo 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
1Jo 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Does this apply at all?
Of course it applies NB, but define it from God's perspective. Everything you see, think, or do is corrupted by sin. So where is the hope? The hope lies in the One who saves, not in the object of salvation. Set your mind on Christ, not on things below.

Asaph

[nb_christseeker]

Christ: King, Lord, God, Son of God, Creator, Redeemer, High Priest, Great Guy, Healer, Raiser of the Dead, Real Food, Real Drink, Heavenly Manna, God with us, Master, Teacher, Innocent One, Holy One, Crucified, Resurrected. Jesus is everything to me! Glory be to God in the highest! Thank you Father for his precious blood!

Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
Rev 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
Rev 4:3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
Rev 4:4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
Rev 4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
Rev 4:6 And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.
Rev 4:7 And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.
Rev 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
Rev 4:9 And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,
Rev 4:10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

[Asaph]

Christ: King, Lord, God, Son of God, Creator, Redeemer, High Priest, Great Guy, Healer, Raiser of the Dead, Real Food, Real Drink, Heavenly Manna, God with us, Master, Teacher, Innocent One, Holy One, Crucified, Resurrected. Jesus is everything to me! Glory be to God in the highest! Thank you Father for his precious blood!
Wow, good prayer nbc. Amen!

When I said earlier "set your mind on Christ, not things below" I didn't mean that at you directly. It was meant to be a general statement. Sorry about that.

Grace, Mercy, and Peace,
Asaph

[nb_christseeker]

Amazing. My "ungodly" thread on the News & Current Events forum has already carried over onto another forum. I'm famous!

I think my post was taken WAY out of context, but I'm not surprised I'm being judged and condemned for it. Nobody likes an open-minded Christian. I never said "I like fornicating, taking the Lord's name in vain, and stealing from convenient stores and I'm not sorry".

I was addressing the point that someone told me I'm not a Christian because I smoke, which is ludicrous. Is smoking a sin? I guess you could say it's damaging the temple but if that's the case all of those gluttonous Baptists should stop eating at the all you can eat buffets after church on Sundays because overeating damages the temple as well.

Why should I be sorry for reading Harry Potter or liking gay people? Do I have to be ridiculously intolerant and cruel to be a repentant Christian? It is absurd how some of you think drinking is a sin and if someone else drinks and doesn't feel convicted you think they're not as "good" a Christian as you are. Maybe you engage in pre-marital sex and don't feel convicted about it, does that make you "less" of a Christian than someone who is abstaining? So what if I snicker when someone tells a dirty joke? Are some of you so good that you wouldn't do the same? I'm glad I'm not like that. You see I know I'm a sinner in need of a Savior, but I also know that I am no better than anyone else and I was tired of treating others as if I was somehow above them.

Just remember, all of your sins (including judging others!) sent Jesus to the cross as well as mine and everyone since the beginning of time until the day God decides to wipe out the human race. You're not any better than me and I'm not any better than you. I'd just like to think I'm a bit more loving and compassionate.
Mat 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Mat 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Mat 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Mat 5:7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Mat 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Mat 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Mat 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

I wonder what he meant. His words are so deep.