Christians Unite!.....Or Wait, Let's Not?

[Sword-In-Hand]

Obvious Rant Hat On :mad:

Although this might get overlooked, I think this has been building in me for a while and after reading a number of posts on this site, I just had to release what I was holding before I blew up.

Ok, I hope for the most part that every Christian in these forums goes by the Great Commission and spreads the good news of Jesus to the lost of the world. I have to ask though, does our good will toward men stop there after someone is saved?

Look at it from this standpoint. A person is born again into the salvation of Jesus Christ and then as Christians this is what we hit them with and think we are doing God a favor.

First let's tell the new believer that when they wake up the next morning and commit a sin, well their salvation is null and void because God hates them again for being sinners. So the joy they experienced when they first became saved should be forgoten because they lost it for themselves due to sin. Let's just make the process of salvation so hard for them to understand that they won't want any part of it.

Also for the believer who actually knows that salvation cannot be removed, let's tell them the version of the Bible that they read is wrong because it wasn't written in 1611! Let's tell someone who probably hated reading Shakespeare in high school that they must learn how to understand God's Word in a language that no one speaks and didn't when it was translated! Let's just confuse them on the very Word that shows us salvation and how to be free in the first place.

After this let's tell a believer that even though they've stopped listening to secular music that is filled with cursing, hints of murder, and explicit sexual lyrics that the Christian music they are now listening to is no better because they play an electric guitar in their songs! Or tell them that since the song didn't mention the name of Jesus, just talked about a real life situation that God helped them through and out of is wrong also, because we don't like the beat of the song. Why don't we just go back in time and tell the people who come to know Christ through some Christian hard rocker that they shouldn't have done that because the music was inappropriate.

Also, going back to the Bible references, let's start a new movement, give it a big name and then tell someone that parts of the Bible aren't for them. Let's not tell them why, so they can be more confused and then get the idea in their head that we can pick and choose what part of the Bible is for us and what isn't. So when they go back and read scripture they can find a verse that tells them they are living in sin, but hey let's not worry about it, because that verse and that book wasn't written for us.

Let's tell people how they should worship the living God. Let's tell them it's not right to make a noise inside the church much less get excited over the fact that we are saved and we want to celebrate our Lord. Keep those hands down people, you might offend someone setting next to you!

Let's make other religions and beliefs look so appealing that people will stray and go towards them. Let's make evolution just look so appealing where its more common sense to believe that man came from a FISH, that to entertain the idea that a loving God could have just created this world to have fellowship with the people He created.

These are just a few examples, and before anyone bashes me, I'm saying these things to myself more than anyone in this site, I'm just using this as an outlet. I hope someone sees where I am coming from and understands why I would put a post like this. It's not to offend at all, just make people think a little deeper or different. People we have to do something different because what alot of us are doing now is making Christianity look like a big joke. Only on Sunday's do we even show that Jesus lives in us and then forget about Him through the week. Jesus is the only way to heaven, there is no other way no matter what some want to believe and we have to proclaim Him as such. We really need to be unified, because honestly what non believer would want part in something that just bickers and argues all the time and I'm not referring to different denominations, I'm referring to in house gatherings. We really need to be one and have Christ as the head. He's the only hope this world has.

Rant Hat Off....Pheww, I feel better :)

[ZiSunka]

Wow, that WAS a rant.

Glad you feel better now.

I ususally find that when I feel like ranting, it's ME that I'm accusing most of all. Is that the case for you, too? Were you ranting about your own behavior, or was this a purely externalized rant?

[Gold Dragon]

While I agree with your general sentiments, I find that rants like this rarely contribute to the solution. Instead, we need to lovingly communicate our differences and try to explain why we believe what we believe without casting judgement on those who believe differently. And also make sincere efforts to understand why they believe what they believe. I think CF is a good place for doing just that.

[jenptcfan]

I completely see where you're coming from, and I agree. I've said similar stuff before.

It's silly the things we choose to have big disagreements about, isn't it? It's crazy to me that there has to be an ongoing debate over which version of bible to use. Once the original thread for the discussion goes away, someone will go out of their way to start up another one so there can be an ongoing disagreement about it. At some point, I have to believe that the discussion isn't about "I think this is what pleases God", it becomes "I have to be right!"

I just don't think that everytime we have a strong opinion about something that others disagree with, we have to beat eachother up with it.

...by the way, that was just an example, that's not the only subject that's treated that way around here...

At some point, I just want to say, "WHO CARES??" Do we have nothing better to discuss than the petty differences we have? Should we get joy out of purposefully posting stuff that we know is just going to rile people up and not come to any kind of conclusion? Who are we serving with that? What's the point?

[Sword-In-Hand]

Is that the case for you, too? Were you ranting about your own behavior, or was this a purely externalized rant?It was a little of both. I usually preach to myself before I say anything to anyone else to know that I'm just as disgusted with myself as I am with the way others portray Christianity.

While I agree with your general sentiments, I find that rants like this rarely contribute to the solution. Instead, we need to lovingly communicate our differences and try to explain why we believe what we believe without casting judgement on those who believe differently. And also make sincere efforts to understand why they believe what they believe. I think CF is a good place for doing just that.You are probably right about contributing to the solution, but sometimes we have to lovingly shout in someone's ear to get their attention and I hope that's how the post came off lol. And CF is a good place to talk about things and be able to post rants if so lead because people will respond and show concern even if they disagree, so you are right about CF.

At some point, I just want to say, "WHO CARES??" Do we have nothing better to discuss than the petty differences we have? Should we get joy out of purposefully posting stuff that we know is just going to rile people up and not come to any kind of conclusion? Who are we serving with that? What's the point?Agreed :)

[Gold Dragon]

but sometimes we have to lovingly shout in someone's ear to get their attention and I hope that's how the post came off lol.
I find that I'm much more apt to listen to someone who is interested in what I have to say, why I say it and to value my thoughts even if some of them may be wrong, than to have someone shouting at me to tell me what I need to fix.

I dunno, maybe it's just me. :)

[BT]

One has said, "The Christian army is the only one that shoots its own wounded."

[Palatka44]

There will always be disunity untill Christ comes back. It will be of His doing and no one else will unify this Church. So untill then lets just agree to disagree knowing that Jesus will set things right.

[shepard_boy]

I know I'm probably the youngest one on this thread, but just because there won't be perfect unity until Christ comes back, that doesn't give us an excuse to not try to do the best we can. I agree with your rant, being in high school, I see the "hypocrites" everyday. It drives me crazy to see people at See You At the Pole, then as thy're walking away, talking about how they got drunk and doped up last night.

[Sword-In-Hand]

One has said, "The Christian army is the only one that shoots its own wounded."
I would have to agree on that statement.

[bleechers]

Tread lightly... tread very lightly with the word "unity"...

As a musician, I have played for a number of different denominations, but I always remember to draw lines where the Bible draws lines...

It is not "unity" that comes first, but the Lord Jesus Christ: His Person, His Gospel and His Work.

2.4 cents.

:)

[BT]

There can be no unity. It's impossible, that is for denominations etc. Well until one comes and unites all religions into one world religion.. then there will be unity... but we'll be gone then so don't worry about it.

[SumTinWong]

A one world religion, pardon the pun, would scare the h e double hockey sticks out of me. Afterall who decides which one? Heaven forbid it would be chosen by membership roles.

[jenptcfan]

There can be no unity. It's impossible, that is for denominations etc. Well until one comes and unites all religions into one world religion.. then there will be unity... but we'll be gone then so don't worry about it.
Why did Christ pray for unity before he was crucified if it was impossible? :scratch:

John 17
22I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: 23I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. 24"Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

And does this verse suggest we shouldn't worry about it?
Ephesians 4
1As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received. 2Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. 3Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace.

[jenptcfan]

A one world religion, pardon the pun, would scare the h e double hockey sticks out of me. Afterall who decides which one? Heaven forbid it would be chosen by membership roles.
I can't speak for the original poster, but I'd just like to see unity within this ONE forum on CF. I'm not looking to unite the whole world, but inside this one forum which is supposed to be people with similar beliefs, it gets down right hateful sometimes because of disagreements.

Of course we're not going to be able to have a common religion with people who don't have faith in Christ...that's why we're supposed to evangelize. But there should be a certain amount of unity and respect within Christianity, and even further unity within each particular denomination of Christianity.

Just my .02.

[SumTinWong]

I think there is unity here on this forum for the most part. The minor things we squabble about are nothing in comparison to what happens in the theology forum. There never will be any unity in that forum as long as there are those who cannot and will not agree to disagree and move on.

What I was referring to is if Christianity were to become THE religion or if we were reduced to one denomination I would not want to be included if it were not where I am at now.

[bleechers]

Why did Christ pray for unity before he was crucified if it was impossible?

He prayed for unity, and like all of Christ's prayers, it was answered. There is only one body, one baptism and one spirit. There is only one true church.

I was kinda pondering this issue yesterday... actually I see tons of unity in the church.

I was saved listening to Oliver B. Greene on the radio and studying the scriptures in the privacy of my apartment. All I knew about who was and who was not a "Christian" was based solely on the gospel. I met up with Christians on the campus where I worked. Our unity was based on our "common salvation" (Jude 1-3).

As a speaker, writer and musician, I have fellowshipped with Baptists, Pentecostals, Plymouth Brethren, Presbyterians, Methodists, Reformed, even Anglicans, etc. Our unity is not built on group hugs and a refusal to acknowledge differences, rather it is built on the Person and Work of Jesus Christ.

I don't believe in tongues, I reject Calvinism, I dislike robes and titles, etc., but none of those (on their own) has prevented me from fellowship on some level with born-agains who hold any or all of those positions. I read old Methodist and Presbyterian writers who were used of God, but that does not mean that I like everything the Ms or Ps do or practice.

I've fellowshipped with street preachers. No idea what their affiliation (if any), but I would listen, and if they were preaching the gospel of the free grace of God, there was fellowship! A born-again, blood-washed, gospel-believing group of people can have sweet "unity" no matter the labels. The problems arise when we try to force unity with people who have not truly been born-again.

Scripturally, "disunity" is caused bt false teachers and false doctrine creeping into the true church. We must be vigilant in keeping the church pure in doctrine (Paul says to "rebuke sharply" false doctrine and "refute gainsayers" and to "reject hereticks") and pure in humbleness. It has been false teaching and the failure of the church to confront it that has caused disunity.

Once you touch the Person of Christ (He is eternal God) or the Work of Christ (He satisfied the payment and punishment for sin by Himself completely) or the gospel of Christ (salvation is a free gift, eternal, given by grace through faith in the blood sacrifice of Christ)... then I have a problem... a very big problem... at that point I am not concerned with unity for the the scriptures command me to be separate.

6.3 cents.

:)

[SumTinWong]

6.3 cents. Inflation? ;)

[BT]

Yeah the more he has to type... the more it's worth ;)

[SumTinWong]

So we are paying bleech by the word now? Okay no problem. Soon he will be making more than Barry Bonds and we might have to trade him for a few prospects tho :)

[bleechers]

So we are paying bleech by the word now? Okay no problem. Soon he will be making more than Barry Bonds and we might have to trade him for a few prospects tho :)

Talk to my agent... :cool:

[LondonsBurning]

There can be no unity. It's impossible, that is for denominations etc. Well until one comes and unites all religions into one world religion.. then there will be unity... but we'll be gone then so don't worry about it.
One world religion may come sooner than you think. The Pope's successor, an archbishop from france has a dream of uniting Judaism, Christianity, and ISlam to one massive religion as his first and most important action in office.

[Gold Dragon]

One world religion may come sooner than you think. The Pope's successor, an archbishop from france has a dream of uniting Judaism, Christianity, and ISlam to one massive religion as his first and most important action in office.Very interesting. Link please? or at least a name?

Apparently in 1999, CNN (http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/1999/pope/) did a special report on the Pope and potential successors, with the expectation that he was going to kick the bucket soon. Five years later, the dude is still rolling. Papal successors are not chosen until after the current pope dies or steps down.

Apparently back then, the two front running candidates were

1) Cardinal Carlo Maria Martini (http://www.cnn.com/interactive/specials/9901/pope.successors/martini.html), the archbishop of Milan
2) Cardinal Francis Arinze (http://www.cnn.com/interactive/specials/9901/pope.successors/arinze.html), a Vatican official from Nigeria

Not sure what the situation is like now.

[SumTinWong]

Hey London, who is the Popes succesor? The Vice Pope?

[bleechers]

One world religion may come sooner than you think. The Pope's successor, an archbishop from france has a dream of uniting Judaism, Christianity, and ISlam to one massive religion as his first and most important action in office.

Hey, LB, great avatar... but you're not helping... :wave:

This is the kind of stuff I have to answer for all the time! ^_^

[Gold Dragon]

Here is an article from the National Catholic Reporter (http://www.nationalcatholicreporter.org/word/word030504.htm) from March of this year. It list the top five Italian candidates and the top five non-Italian candidates.

Arinze still seems to be the most popular non-Italian candidate.

Dionigi Tettamanzi has succeeded Martini as Archbishop of Milan and is currently the most popular Italian candidate.

[bleechers]

Here is an article from the National Catholic Reporter (http://www.nationalcatholicreporter.org/word/word030504.htm) from March of this year. It list the top five Italian candidates and the top five non-Italian candidates.


I'm Italian... any chance I'll get some votes?

:holy:

[Gold Dragon]

I think Cardinal Francis Arinze is that candidate that LondonsBurning is talking about. I found a few conspiracy theory type websites spreading concern about him.

Here is an article from beliefnet.com (http://www.beliefnet.com/story/48/story_4829_1.html) a religious ecumenical website that invites religious folks from all walks of faith. Most of the Christian content there is generally from the more liberal side of Christianity.


White Smoke for a Black Pope? (http://www.beliefnet.com/story/48/story_4829_1.html)

...

Williams, of the Detroit archdiocese, said Arinze's expertise in Islam, developed in his Vatican role, is highly valued on a continent where Islam is developing apace with Christianity. Nigeria's nascent democracy is threatened by instability, reflected in the country's soaring crime rate and recurrent civil conflicts. Optimists say that Arinze's prominence, combined with his emphasis on interreligious respect, could help keep the peace.

"The next religious war on the African continent could be a religious war between Christians and Muslims," Williams said. "I think Cardinal Arinze is often mentioned as pope because he has the skills needed for reconciliation."

Arinze learned about coexistence with members of other faiths early in life. Although he comes from Onitsha, a predominantly Catholic city, nearly half of Nigeria's citizens are Muslim. Arinze arranged for Pope John Paul II to meet members of both faiths during the pope's visit to Nigeria in 1998.

"If you look at Christian-Muslim relations around the world, it's a life-and-death matter," said Monsignor Raymond East, pastor of Nativity Catholic Church in Washington. Religious tolerance is going to be one of the most important messages for the future."

...

Even as he reaches out to other religions, though, Arinze insists on a strict doctrinal line. "All are redeemed by Jesus Christ," he said at Wake Forest -- a message that does not always play well with leaders of other faiths. Nor is it strongly held by all contemporary Christian theologians. The Vatican, in fact, has been clamping down recently on Catholic theologians thought to waver on that point.