Question on speaking in tongues

[sparrow]

Hey :wave:
I've been wondering recently about speaking in tongues. It's something I've never tried and I don't really understand it. I've heard people say that you can speak in tongues during prayer, but I don't really know where to start or what exactly to do! What exactly is it? What does it mean? Can somebody help me? I'd greatly appreciate it!
:help:
:angel: Claire :angel:

[sparrow]

Hey :wave:
I've been wondering recently about speaking in tongues. It's something I've never tried and I don't really understand it. I've heard people say that you can speak in tongues during prayer, but I don't really know where to start or what exactly to do! What exactly is it? What does it mean? Can somebody help me? I'd greatly appreciate it!
:help:
:angel: Claire :angel:

[good_news]

"speaking in tongues"? Sounds to me like they're talking about speaking other languages...

[Redeemed1]

Before we start, can we please not allow this to become a "tongues" debate, but rather an encouraging discussion.

Claire, first I would read the scriptures that talk about the gifts which is 1Corinthians chapter 12. Do people in your church speak in tonuges? If so, I would encourage you to talk to your pastor, or a mature Christian about it. Then, I would say, begin to ask God for the gift. If you are seeking all that God has for you, believe me, He will not disappoint you!

[Fisher of Men]

This is a great question clairy,While most people dont understand tongues,it the language of GOD.It is meant mostly for unbeleives.Its something you cant do any time you want to do it,also when this gift happens there are often 2 people this happens too.One is the speaker the other the translater.The thing that gets me is when people just start speaking when they want too,in tongues and that is not truely tongues,but tongues can be a gift and truely is one of the many gifts from GOD.

[Andrew]

clairywairy,

I think what you should be looking up is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit with tongues as a sign. I must warn you that this is a very controversial topic and it'll prob escalate into a war here!

Pentecostals and most charismatics believe that when you are Baptised in the Holy Spirit (as in Acts 2) you can speak in tongues. Of course, there are many other denominations who would go so far as to tell you that tongue speaking is of the devil.

I belong to the former category. :)

[Nick_Loves_Abba]

Well Baptism of the Holy Spirit occurs once we ask Jesus into our hearts right?

Second, I believe that Speaking in TOngues is just one of those gifts given by the Holy Ghost. It isn't required to do in order to be saved. SOme people say it is a sign that you're (I'm) saved. I don't think so. I believe the Holy Ghost gives the gifts as he sees fit, not as other Christians see fit.
There's many more gifts than Tongues.

[Andrew]

Well Baptism of the Holy Spirit occurs once we ask Jesus into our hearts right?
----------------
Well, most traditional Christians believe that but not the Pentecostals and most charismatics. To them its a separate experience subsequent to salvation (although the 2 can occur simultaneously as in Cornelius' case).

Yes, some Pentecostals and charismatics believe that one must speak in tongues to be saved, since they believe that w/o the Holy Spirit, one is not saved (that's true) and that THE sign of having the Holy Spirit is being able to speak a heavenly lang or tongues.

Other Pentecostals and charismatics reject this. They take the "middle road" ie when you are born again, the Holy Spirit resides in you, but then there is more, an empowerment for service which is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, whereby the sign is tongues. The common analogy used is "well of water springing up into eternal life vs rivers of water". I belong to this category.

peace

[Timothy51150]

Being a Christian who has been in penecostal and charismatic circles for years. I also talk in tongues.

It is just one of the many gifts of the Holy Spirit. There is so much senseless debate about it. It is nothing that you have to do, but like any gift given it is up to the person if he wants to use it or not. I was filled with the Holy Spirit for a long time before I received the gift of tongues. It is a wonderful gift, but has been abused much.

You do not have to talk in tongues to go to heaven. You do not have to talk in tongues to receive the fullness of the Holy Spirt, but the gift is there if you want it. It is a tool to use in our spiritual warfare. It makes us better equip to combat evil in my opinion.

[sparrow]

Hi everyone!
Thanks for your replies.
Redeemed1 - People in my church don't speak in tongues so I don't know who really to speak to about it.

So is "tongues" like a language you can speak to God in? How will I know when I have the gift, if I get it? I'm still a little confused! I have been baptized so does that mean I can get it?

And sorry - I didn't mean this to become a big debate! Just an innocent question. :)

:angel: Claire :angel:

[Andrew]

Hi clairy,

When tongue speakers speak of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, they are not refering to water baptism. What they are refering to is the event that occured in Acts 2. You might want to read that chapter first. Basically, its being soaked in or filled up with the Holy Spirit. This Holy Spirit baptism thingy, is of course, as controversial as the tongues part.

Is tongues like a language? Well I've heard all sorts of tongues, from single-syllable chanting to cooing and wooing to language- like ones with many syllables and words. My stand is, God can do as He pleases, and He does not have to conform to the world's definition of language.

Basically, Pentecostals teach that you have to ask for the Holy Spirit. Read Luke 11:11. Then by faith you believe you receive. Then by faith you begin to speak forth. The thing is, YOU HAVE TO use your lungs, mouth and tongue to just begin speaking whatever strange syllables that arise from your spirit. It's not like the Holy Spirit comes upon you and takes over control of your tongues and starts wagging it. It doesnt work that way. That wld be like demonic possesion. No He's a perfect gentleman, and if you dont want to open your mouth, rest assured nothing is gonna happen.

Of course there's more to it. That's just the jist of it. I believe also that there must be some sort of hunger for more of God. A desire to go deeper. IOW, you're not doing this out of curiosity.

peace

[Nick_Loves_Abba]

Some people don't even know some of their gifts are just that, gifts. So you could possibly posses a gift from the Holy Ghost, and not fully well know it is from him. I know I have gifts of the Holy Spirit, but to be specific on them, I can't.

And trust me, if you have accepted Jesus into your heart he isn't going to let you into hell. I believe like others that accepting Jesus into ones heart also instantaeously braings baptisms of the Holy Ghost. I mean, John 3:16 says that whosoever believith will not parish but have everlasting life. Belief leads to salvation which I believe is linked to Baptism of the Holy Ghost. :)

[Redeemed1]

Clairy - for me, it was a matter of my desiring to have more of God in my life, to have all that He had for me. And for quite some time I struggled with why I didn't pray in tongues, and I'd keep asking and wondering why nothing was happening. And then, I decided that I would just not worry about it anymore. I had asked, and when God wanted to give it to me, He would. Not long after that, I was in the middle of worship, singing my little heart out, and suddenly I began to sing syllabals and sounds that I had never done before. I wasn't even thinking about it or anything, they just began to flow! Took me totally by surprise, and blessed my socks off! Now, I have what many Charismatics refer to as a prayer language. I don't speak out in church in tonuges (which requires an interpretation), so I don't have that kind of tongues. But I sing, and pray, very often in tongues. My point to all of this, is that I sought God and all He had for me, and then had to relax and trust Him for it. It came when I wasn't expecting it!

[Debbie]

Clairywairy, Beware of false doctrine for it defiles the temple of the Holy Spirit. False doctrine is when someone says that Jesus' work on the cross was not enough for salvation, such as,"tongues is a sign of salvation".
There are christians who speak in tongues whenever they want to. There are non christians who speak in tongues also. So you must be careful that if you desire the gift, that you are not seeking a "spiritual manifestation". If you want a manifestation most, you might recieve it from elsewhere.
There is no danger in prayer to God. But there is danger at other times. I have seen such. NOt all people who speak in tongues recieved their gift from God. THis is a fact. Several posters here have explained tongues to you very well, while other posts are so wrong. I am very cautious about this because I have seen all sides.
Some claim that tongues is not for today, & that is obviously false. If you want the gift pray for it, but dont dwell on it. There are so many misconceptions about it, from those who speak in tongues, it could fill up volumes. I think it's like any other gift in Cor: if God wants you to have it, you will. You recieved the Holy Spirit baptism when became saved, per scripture. Baptism of the Holy Spirit is not "speaking in tongues". We are only baptised by the Holy Spirit once. These people speak in tongues several times a week & call it "the baptism" & say it's evidence of salvation. Scripture does not say this, this is a false doctrine. Tongues is the least of all gifts, per Cor. & FOR A REASON many rules apply in scripture. It is for the benefit of the person's prayer, it does not help the church unless someone can interpret. The other gifts help the church, yet many people think tongues is the greatest gift, ignoring scripture saying it is the least.
I know people like that who make no attempt to help save a person, but as soon as someone gets saved, they insult their spirituality by proclaiming they are more spiritual because they speak in tongues. I know people who force themselves to learn how to speak in tongues & become good at it. Practice makes perfect!!! lol
I do not have the gift of tongues, but was made to feel less spiritual by multigifted tongue speaking folks. I prayed & fasted for the gift of tongues. Then after a day of prayer & fasting, as I lay asleep, I began recieving the gift which awoke me.
As for myself, I will only accept it if it comes naturally during prayer. If I feel something happening at any other time, I disregard it.

[Fisher of Men]

Great post Debbie,i agree 100%.I see so many well respected people on tv and other places start to speak in tongues when they want too,and that just isnt right.Th e best thing to do is just pray about.

[Redeemed1]

Very good post. And for the record, I am in agreement (as is my church, which is charismatic), that tongues (or any of the other gifts) has absolutely nothing to do with salvation, nor is it an indication of salvation in any way.

[Mandy]

An important thing to remember is that not everyone has the gift of tongues. We are given gifts according to the will of God. We are members of the body of Christ and we are not all meant to be the same. Also just because some may speak in tongues doesn't mean that they are closer to God or are more favored.

[Timothy51150]

On Baptism of the Holy Spirit. You do receive the Holy Spirit at salvation, but that has nothing to do with Baptism of the Holy Spirit. If you read Acts 4:23-31 you will see where the Apostles were praying for boldness, after the prayer, And when they had prayed, the place where they were assembled together was shaken; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

I do believe that the Apostles were already saved at this time, yet they were filled again with the Holy Spirit. As far as the word baptism or filling most penecostals use either one to describe the experience.

Many penecostals, me included, believe that a person can be filled many times, but the inital filling sometimes has the evidence of speaking in tongues as a sign of that filling. It does not have to, but it can. As I and others have already stated. Tongues has nothing to do with salvation. I have heard very few who claim that it does.

I speak in tongues when I want. Where does it say that I cannot. Many times as I am praying I am not sure how to pray. I begin to pray in tongues, many times the way I need to pray just shows itself, so yes, a person can pray in tongues when he wants to.

[Andrew]

Tim,
-----------------
You do receive the Holy Spirit at salvation,
-----------------

I believe this too. Most Christians believe that the Holy Spirit is received "AUTOMATICALLY" at the point of born-again. But then I wld have difficulty reconciling such verses:

A) Samrians had already believed and been baptised, yet no Holy Spirit---
Acts 8:14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. 15When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into[1] the name of the Lord Jesus. 17Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
18When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money...

B) I believe Saul was already a believer, having 3 days to think about it after being blinded!, yet no Holy Spirit ---

Acts 9:17Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord--Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here--has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit."

C) Here's one clear eg: You have disciples who had believed for many years already, then were baptised by Paul when he met them, yet only received the Holy Spirit after Paul placed his hands on them.

Acts 19:1 While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when[1] you believed?"
They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit."
3So Paul asked, "Then what baptism did you receive?"
"John's baptism," they replied.
4Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus." 5On hearing this, they were baptized into[2] the name of the Lord Jesus. 6When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues[3] and prophesied.

Again, my question is, if it's automatic, how come they didnt receive automatically. Suffice to say there is more to the Holy Spirit after salvation.

Also, the passages give me the impression that these believers did not have the Holy Spirit yet. It also does not give the impression that they have "some" of it but then needed more of it.

peace

[Timothy51150]

I think that at salvation that the spirit of man is reborn or recreated. We are able once again to communicate with the creator through our spirit. The filling or receiving or baptism of the Holy Spirit is when we begin to allow the Holy Spirit complete control of our lives. I have done a really good study on this area and taught it in our church. It was well received and my Sunday School class stayed packed out through the whole series.

The reason I think that we speak in tongues is that the tongue is one of the hardest things for the Christian to control. James tells us that in the first chapter. In my opinion tongues is just giving the Holy Spirit control of the tongue. Like I said that is just an opinion.

[Andrew]

The filling or receiving or baptism of the Holy Spirit is when we begin to allow the Holy Spirit complete control of our lives.
-------------------
I sometimes think of it that way too. But in Acts, there doesnt seem to be any indication that the Holy Spirit was received when they decided "Okay I'll give total control now, come and fill me". It was usu by the laying of hands.

Anyway, dont want to be dogmatic abt it. My current understanding is that of the well of water rising up verses rivers of life analogy, or resident vs president comparison.

peace

[Timothy51150]

That is true and I have seen more people receiving the HS through the laying on of hands then any other way. All I really was trying to say was that what happens to us at salvation is entirely different then what we call the baptism of the HS.

[Debbie]

JOhn & Peter were Jews. The Samarians were looked down upon by the Jews. Although in the previous post quoting scripture, the Samarians believed the gospel of Jesus, they had not recieved the Holy Spirit because they did not speak BOLDLY about the gospel they recieved= they were not confident that the gentile apostles preaching salvation to them was really for them. It was when the JEWISH apostles, Peter & John, arrived & layed hands on them, that they BOLDLY professed their own salvation.
The importance of that scripture is not that the laying on of hands showed proof of their salvation, but that it took JOhn & Peter, Jews, to convince them that a Jewish MEssiah offered salvation to the lowest class of all Gentiles=Samaritans.
WE ARE ONLY BAPTIZED ONCE. We are filled repeatedly. Therefore, referring to speaking in tongues as being the baptism of the Holy Spirit is incorrect terminology, unless you only speak in tongues once.

[Timothy51150]

Never said that speaking in tongues was the baptism of the HS. I said that it was an evidence of baptism of the HS .

You are incorrect on being baptized only once. If you read Acts 4:23-31 you will find that all those presence at this prayer meeting at the release of Peter and John from prison received the filling of the HS again. We know that Peter and John were in the upper room when the HS first came. So you can be filled more than once.

[bcrick]

Tim. Are you saying that tongues is the evidence of Baptism?
Personally, I believe tongues is one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, not the evidence. The evidence is the Fruit displayed in our lives. As Jesus said, " By your fruits will you be known."

[Timothy51150]

Originally posted by bcrick
Tim. Are you saying that tongues is the evidence of Baptism?
Personally, I believe tongues is one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, not the evidence. The evidence is the Fruit displayed in our lives. As Jesus said, " By your fruits will you be known."

No. I said it is can be an evidence of filling of the HS. I know many people who have the baptism of the HS, but have not spoken in tongues. If you read Acts you will see that many times speaking in tongues happens when the person gets filled with the Spirit. :clap:

[Debbie]

Timothy, nowhere in the Bible does it say or insinuate or indicate that we are baptized more than once. We are filled with the Holy Spirit repeatedly, but baptized only once.
Acts 4 refers to be refilled not rebaptized.

[Timothy51150]

Filled or baptized we are just disagreeing on symantics. I use either word to mean the same thing. :cool:

[Revelator]

I say tongues are just babbling. The Holy Spirit comes to you when you are saved and fills you then. The tongues spoken in Acts are other laguages it even lists them out.

[Timothy51150]

I speak in tongues. You are welcome to call it whatever you want to. Does not change the facts any.

[Revelator]

Wht do you say when you speak in tongues?

[Timothy51150]

Originally posted by Revelator
Wht do you say when you speak in tongues?

Many time you do not know, but sometimes I ask God for understanding and He shows me what I have prayed about. There are times you just do not know how to pray for a particular thing. I begin to pray in tongues, sometimes as I am praying in tongues I change to english and I know how to pray. :pray: Sometimes I never know what I have said.

[MissytheButterfly]

Here is a scripture that I found in the KJV bible about gifts: I Corinthians 12:7-11: 7)But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8)For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit. 9)To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10)To another the working of the miracles; to another prophesy; to another discerning spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another interpretation of tongues: 11) But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

Here is another scripture that may help you also: 1 Corinthians 14: various verses. Verse 1-6 Follow after charity and desire spiritual gifts , but rather that ye may prophesy. 2)For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.3) But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification and exhortation, and comfort. 4)He that speaketh in an uknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. 5)I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifiying. 6) Now bretheren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall it profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation or by knowledge, or by prophesying or by doctrine ?

..Verse 9 So like wise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken ? for ye shall speak into the air. ..Verse 12 Even so ye forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. 13)Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. 14) For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. Verse 18-19 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. And finally Verse 22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that beleive, but to them that believe not:but prophesieing serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

[StPaulofHurstbridge]

Speaking in tongues accompanied my receiving of the Holy Spirit. It was not the only thing that happened to me that day. I felt it go right through me. I instantly was healed of 6 years of drug and alchohol addiction - no withdrawal. It was a massive thing that happened in my life - every aspect of my life was changed from then on, all I can do is testify that this is not the work of a devil - it is the work of God. There are no doubts in me about this - I know for a fact that I have the Holy Spirit, I know for a fact my sins are no more because I have been baptised - I can check every day if I am walking straight by examining myself according to His Word. I think a no doubt situation is better than common belief in Jesus. I read somewhere in the Bible that devils believe also and tremble. I can see how distressing this is to some, but I have known no other way - I was not taken to any church by my parents, so the only time I came into contact with Christanity was as I shared with you above. I am not confused about any aspect of this - I think it is very clear what the bible says about Tongues. But I have not come from a church that leaves this part of the Christian experience out from the service and/or its members, so I can only speak from my experience. I aknowlege that others have not had this experience and admire your love of Jesus the same.

[cougan]

Do you believe that you have the same miracules gifts as they did in the first century?

Do you believe that there are still apostles (See Acts 1:22-23) and prophets today?

In Eph 4:13 what is the unity of the faith?

Whatever this unity of the faith is would'nt you agree that it cross references to 1 Corth 13:8-10?

[allieisme]

I kinda disagree with some of the things being said in here, but I'm not here to debate, just give my own opinion.. Which is: I totally believe in speaking in tongues, and when you are I totally believe you know what your saying, and you know your surroundings,and it truly is a gift from the Holy Spirit, and I can only hope that one day, I will be able to speak in tongues..:)

:pink:

[Andrew]

and you know your surroundings,and it truly is a gift from the Holy Spirit, and I can only hope that one day, I will be able to speak in tongues..
-------------------------

The truth is, you dont really have to wait for it. Ask God for the Holy Spirit according to Luke 11:11, then begin to speak in faith. That's how I received.

Previously, the Pentecostals thought and taught that one had to pray and pray and pray and wait and wait and wait b4 one could receive. Then, recently, they found out that you dont have to wait and wait becos its a gift received by faith.

[OntheRock]

There are probably many who do not beleive in tongues. What do you think of people like me who speak in tongues? In other words: Do you think I am lying? Misguided? Deceived? Some kind of emotional hype that I brought about by my flesh? What?

Just curious on how you refute a testimony of tongues.

[StPaulofHurstbridge]

Cougan,

As you have asked me in other threads about if I believe in if there are apostles and prophets in operation today - can you please start a new thread on this - I am interested in following this on it's own, rather than inside the tongues thread?

[mambutuu]

I speak in tongues. Personally, I don't see what is so great about it. I think it is an overrated experienced. I sought his gift mainly so i wouldn't be the odd man out, as most of my friends had this gift.

I think the important thing is to just love God. Be happy with who you are. Don't feel as though you are a second class Christian if you don't speak in tongues.

[Xnot A citizenX]

Well I am don't know whether or not to believe the speakin' in tounges in the sorry for lack of a better term "spiritual babbling" sense.  I do however believe that you can speak in tounges in the sense of another language in order to spread the word, even if you haven't studied or learned the language. But the whole "spiritual babbling" concept just doesn't make any sense to me.  My girlfriend believes in it and says she has done it.  I know that is is/was a part of her spirituality.  I just don't know what to believe after hearing so many disaster stories from people in Penecostal Holiness churches, and her coming out of one.  The Penecostal faith is reall the only faith that I know that is all about some speaking in tounges.  My question is why is it so great, how does saying something you can't coprehend bring you closer to the Lord, how does it come about...I mean are you just praying, singing,  etc and here you go "babbling"?  I have prayed hard about this for monthes asking for an answer and I am trying to dig deeper to get an answer...and find what I truelly believe...I am open minded enough to give it a fair chance and find out if it is something that it is something of truth.  Please give me any help that you can.  Hopefully some of my "babbling" LOL on here has made some since thanks all

GOD bless,

Xnot A citizenX  :pray:

[Auntie]

Hi Xnot A citizenX, and welcome to Christian Forums.:wave:


I don't know much about speaking in tongues, but maybe someone else will answer your questions.:)

[SpiritPsalmist]

Today at 12:32 AM Xnot A citizenX said this in Post #41 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=682969#post682969)

Well I am don't know whether or not to believe the speakin' in tounges in the sorry for lack of a better term "spiritual babbling" sense.  I do however believe that you can speak in tounges in the sense of another language in order to spread the word, even if you haven't studied or learned the language. But the whole "spiritual babbling" concept just doesn't make any sense to me.  My girlfriend believes in it and says she has done it.  I know that is is/was a part of her spirituality.  I just don't know what to believe after hearing so many disaster stories from people in Penecostal Holiness churches, and her coming out of one.  The Penecostal faith is reall the only faith that I know that is all about some speaking in tounges.  My question is why is it so great, how does saying something you can't coprehend bring you closer to the Lord, how does it come about...I mean are you just praying, singing,  etc and here you go "babbling"?  I have prayed hard about this for monthes asking for an answer and I am trying to dig deeper to get an answer...and find what I truelly believe...I am open minded enough to give it a fair chance and find out if it is something that it is something of truth.  Please give me any help that you can.  Hopefully some of my "babbling" LOL on here has made some since thanks all

GOD bless,

Xnot A citizenX  :pray:



Xnot A citizenX

Here is a response I gave to someone else on the issue. It helped him to have a better understanding and he's speaking in tongues now on a regular basis and seeing quite a few changes in his walk with God as a result.

Hopefully it will help you understand the point.  Please feel free to PM me if you have any other questions.  I don't necessarily know everything, but I know a lot.  :D

It is my understanding that there are 2 types of tongues. Which means, that the Holy Spirit, using your tongue, speaks in a language you don't know and have never studied.

1. A language that someone, somewhere on earth would understand in the natural. We see this in Acts 2:4 where the disciples along with several others are filled with the Holy Spirit. As part of this infilling they began to speak in different and foreign languages they had never studied. As a result, in every dialect within the city that day, was heard the glories of God.

2. A language of Angels.[/B] I believe this one can be split in to 2 parts.
A. Prayer between you and God only. This is for your edification. For you to be made stronger.Paul refers to this in 1 Cor 14:2, 4


B. A message for the body that needs someone with the gift of interpretation to interpret. Paul refers to this one in 1 Cor 14:1, 3, 5-13. Reading the whole chapter is a good idea.


WHAT'S THE POINT?

The point of tongues as described in #1 is, I believe to be mostly a witnessing tool to someone of another language who needs to know Jesus. That is basically what is seen in Acts 2 . There were about 3000 souls added to the church that day (v41)

I had a friend, who when waking up from surgery was approached by the nurse and asked how long he had spoken Hebrew. He told her he did not speak Hebrew. She then told him that while under anesthetic, he spoke fluent Hebrew, and the surgeon, who was Jewish, understood every word. While being operated on my friend witnessed to his doctor.

I've also heard of other situations where missionarys spoke in languages they had never studied and people were saved because it was in their language.

The point of tongues as described in #2A, is to build you up spiritually, which may also manifest physically. Such as your feeling depressed, you allow the Holy Spirit to pray through you in your heavenly language, He requests what is needed, you are strengthened, and you feel uplifted spiritually and physically.

We can see this in Romans 8:26-28 (Amplified) "the Holy Spirit comes to our aid and bears us up in our weakness; for we do not know what prayer to offer nor how to offer it worthily as we ought, but the Spirit Himself goes to meet our supplication and pleads in our behalf with unspeakable yearnings and groanings too deep for utterance.

And He Who searches the hearts of men knows what is in the mind of the Holy Spirit, what His intent is, because the Spirit intercedes and pleads before God in behalf of the saints according to and in harmony with God's will.

We are assured and know that God being a partner in their labor , all things work together and are fitting into a plan for good to and for those who love God and are called according to His design and purpose".

The trinity, working together for your benefit is in full view in these 3 verses. When we don't know how to pray, the Holy Spirit, praying through us, intercedes for us. The one who searches the hearts of men (Jesus), understands what the Spirit is requesting through you. And then God, who is in partnership with them (Holy Spirit and Jesus) works everything together for good to those who love Him, and fits it into His design and purpose.

This form of tongues can and should be used at any time. You can pray out loud or you can pray silently. When witnessing to a Muslim once I prayed silently in tongues the whole time. And each step of the way the Holy Spirit directed.

You can pray in tongues when you are in need physically, spiritually, or mentally. When your feeling weak and see the possibilities of walking into sin, pray in tongues, you will get the strength you need to overcome

When being like Christ seems too tough and you feel like giving up, pray in your heavenly language and you wll get the strength to persevere.

Pray in your heavenly language when you see you need more love, peace, joy, longsuffering, gentleness, etc. You may not know what to say but the Spirit is never at a loss for words.

Pray in tongues when your overwhelmed by God's love for you. I sing to Him in tongues all the time.





 

[Xnot A citizenX]

Thanks for the post.  I have read most of those versus before over and over.  The thing is, I may have missed it, but where in the Bible does it show where anyone again sorry for the lack of a better term "spiritually babbled".  Is there an evidence of it at all in the Bible?  If so where? 

Also when speaking in tounges do you control the tounges or when you speak them?  Or all of a sudden do you just start "babbling"? Or what?

Thanks for all the help you have given me, I do appreciate this.  As it is something I have been praying about for awhile now thanks :wave:

God Bless,

Xnot A citizenX :pray:

[SpiritPsalmist]

Yesterday at 05:25 PM Xnot A citizenX said this in Post #44 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=684057#post684057)

Thanks for the post.  I have read most of those versus before over and over.  The thing is, I may have missed it, but where in the Bible does it show where anyone again sorry for the lack of a better term "spiritually babbled".  Is there an evidence of it at all in the Bible?  If so where? 

Also when speaking in tounges do you control the tounges or when you speak them?  Or all of a sudden do you just start "babbling"? Or what?

Thanks for all the help you have given me, I do appreciate this.  As it is something I have been praying about for awhile now thanks :wave:

God Bless,

Xnot A citizenX :pray:



Hey again,

Can you clairify what you mean by babbling?  The dictionary definition of babble is:

1. a: to talk enthusiastically or excessively b: to utter meaningless or unintelligible sounds.

2: to make sounds as though babbling

3: to utter in an incoherently or meaninglessly repetitious manner.

I've heard, mostly those against tongues, refer to tongues as babbling, but that's certaintly not how scripture refers to it. 

1 Cor 14:2 (NKJ)  For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

It may sound like babbling to the human ear but to God's ears it is communication in the spirit rhelm.

WHEN SPEAKING IN TONGUES DO YOU CONTROL THE TONGUE?  OR ALL OF A SUDDEN DO YOU JUST START "BABBLING"? OR WHAT?

1 Cor 14:31-33 (Amplified) For in this way you can give testimony [prophesying and thus interpreting the divine will and purpose] on by one, so that all may be instructed and all may be stimulated and encouraged; For the spirits of the prophets (the speakers in tongues) are under the speaker's control [and subject to being silenced as may be necessary], For He [Who is the source of their prophesying] is not a God of confusion and disorder but of peace and order.  As [is the practice] in all the churches of the saints (God's people),

The answer to the first part of your question is yes.  You are in control.  This is not like a seizure of some sort :), although some are known to portray it that way.  LOL

I remember the first time I ever gave a message in tongues.  The Spirit had been working on me for weeks, trying to get me to respond to His gentle prodding that He wanted to use me in this manner.  In my fear I held it in. 

But finely, one day I had held it in for so long that it just burst out of me. Sorta like a balloon that has reached it's point of popping because there is no more room left.  LOL

Since then, that was many moons ago, I have learned to respond immediately and that way it doesn't sound so uncontrollible. 

I grew up being told that the only time one could speak in tongues was when the Spirit came upon them in some "frenzied" way, but that is not true.  The Spirit in us is always willing and ready to make intercession for us and others.  We can pray in tongues any time we choose. 

As far as you controlling the sounds that come out. . .allow a lot of fluctuation.  With some people, at the beginning there are alot of the same sounds, over and over again.  I believe that as they mature in this gift and relax that the sounds will change and it will sound more and more like another language.

You don't need to do anything special.  When you get in your private time with God, ask Him for that gift, then pray, but not in english, or any other language you know. 

You will hear sounds in your head and I would suggest going with the sounds you hear in your head.  You'll mostly likely feel stupid, the enemy most definitely does not want you to do this.  But you just push forward and do it anyway.  :)

As thoughts come into your head about other persons or situations, continue praying in tongues, the Spirit is most likely interceding for them.      

Most of all, just relax.  And enjoy this special communication that is there between you and God.

Be blessed.

 

 

[Xnot A citizenX]

What I meant by "babbling" was just that..uttering things that seemingly have no meaning.  Not speaking in a language.  I hope I didn't affend you with the term....because I really couldn't think of another way to put it...And that is the only thing I have ever really heard about it...I thank you for helping me out on this subject...I have been for a while and am continuing to pray about this....the fact is I don't know if it is something I believe can happen or if it is just a bunch of "bologna" or whatever...but I am being open minded...and I am sure since I am going to the source...ie God...that I am sure some how I will find out....But thanks for your help and support Quaffer....it is much appreciated....

God bless,

Xnot A citizenX :pray:

[SpiritPsalmist]

Today at 12:05 AM Xnot A citizenX said this in Post #46 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=686450#post686450)

What I meant by "babbling" was just that..uttering things that seemingly have no meaning.  Not speaking in a language.  I hope I didn't affend you with the term....because I really couldn't think of another way to put it...And that is the only thing I have ever really heard about it...I thank you for helping me out on this subject...I have been for a while and am continuing to pray about this....the fact is I don't know if it is something I believe can happen or if it is just a bunch of "bologna" or whatever...but I am being open minded...and I am sure since I am going to the source...ie God...that I am sure some how I will find out....But thanks for your help and support Quaffer....it is much appreciated....

God bless,

Xnot A citizenX :pray:



Xnot A citizenX

God bless you too.  And absoutly no offense was taken on my part.  When one does not understand what is being said, I suppose to that one, it is babbling.  It's not a term I'm fond of but I took no offense.  Really.  :)

God says, if you seek Him with all your heart, He will be found. . . so just continue searching and asking.  Also, check out what sbbqb7n16 says here about his learning experience with tongues  http://www.christianforums.com/threads/36743-2.html (I'm having a hard time getting it to go to the exact post.  It's post #12)

Please feel free to PM me if you have any other questions.  This is a gift that I operate in, so I do know a lot about it. I'm more than happy to share what I know.  

Quaffer

[SUNSTONE]

Quaffer

One great thing that I heard Dave Wells say about speaking in tongues was this "If speaking in tongues was wrong or evil, you would be seeing people in bars speaking in tongues. In the book of acts, what was the first thing the church did when they recieved the Holy Spirit? Speak in tongues."

This one great bible study that I goto which is lead by a calvanists, said this. "There are times when you want to talk to God, but you run out of things to say, thats when you carry over into tongues."

[Andrew]

wa ai ka le gong ye saw jin ai le !!!
sen ai ni!

[SpiritPsalmist]

Today at 02:27 AM Andrew said this in Post #49 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=694125#post694125)

wa ai ka le gong ye saw jin ai le !!!
sen ai ni!



And. . .Andrew says, Glory be to God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come . . .:)

[Blindfaith]

When the gifts were listed in various books/chapters in the bible, they were not listed in order of importance, or preference.  I think Paul, through the Holy Spirit, did this on purpose so "no one can boast" as to what their gift of the Spirit is.  Besides, it's not from us, it's from Him. :)   We're to use it to further the Kingdom of God, not to further our own agenda or ego's (whatever the gift may be).

The gifts of the Spirit are given to sealed believers. Not what the believer requests or wants, but what God wants to give them to add to the body of Christ.  If everyone could speak in tongues, then we would only be an "arm", where Christ is the Head, and there wouldn't be any legs, hands, torso's, feet, etc. to complete a "whole" body in Christ.   Not everyone can "speak" in tongues, and that's quite all right.  The Lord is gracious enough, and giving enough, to give each believer the gift that best suits God's purpose, and our personalities which goes hand in hand.


Keep in mind ~ one gift is not more important than the others, exept love. If one cannot show/speak love to others, the gift of the Spirit that is given to you is worthless, whether it be prophecy, mercy, teaching or tongues, etc. 

[SpiritPsalmist]

[/QUOTE]

Hello blindfaith,

Like you, I don't believe tongues is the most important gift either.  But that was the subject question of this thread and none the less is a gift. 

1 Cor 14:1 (NKJ) says, "Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy."  Since we are told to desire I would assume that would involve asking.  I believe the gift of tongues as a prayer language to God is for everyone, but is not required in order to be a Christian. 

I believe this because 1 Cor 14:4 says, "He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself".  This would be the Spirit praying through us in incouraging our spirits and giving us the strength we need to do whatever it is we need to do.  And since God is not a respector of persons (Acts 10:34), I can't see that God would give one a gift that would help build up one member but withhold it from another.   

Just as you've pointed out, love is the most important one.  The gifts are not for us to horde to ourselves but to be used to minister the Love of Jesus to those around us.  Lost and hurting people who need to see Jesus in us and hear from God through us.

Quaffer

[SUNSTONE]

Today at 01:11 PM blindfaith said this in Post #51 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=694843#post694843)

When the gifts were listed in various books/chapters in the bible, they were not listed in order of importance, or preference.  I think Paul, through the Holy Spirit, did this on purpose so "no one can boast" as to what their gift of the Spirit is.  Besides, it's not from us, it's from Him. :)   We're to use it to further the Kingdom of God, not to further our own agenda or ego's (whatever the gift may be).

The gifts of the Spirit are given to sealed believers. Not what the believer requests or wants, but what God wants to give them to add to the body of Christ.  If everyone could speak in tongues, then we would only be an "arm", where Christ is the Head, and there wouldn't be any legs, hands, torso's, feet, etc. to complete a "whole" body in Christ.   Not everyone can "speak" in tongues, and that's quite all right.  The Lord is gracious enough, and giving enough, to give each believer the gift that best suits God's purpose, and our personalities which goes hand in hand.


Keep in mind ~ one gift is not more important than the others, exept love. If one cannot show/speak love to others, the gift of the Spirit that is given to you is worthless, whether it be prophecy, mercy, teaching or tongues, etc. 



When Paul is speaking here, he is just giving some order for when they assemble.
If we were to have only one or two or however many gifts, thats it no more, then he would have said, pursue "your" gift that God wants you to have. But he didn't say that, he said pursue the gift that edifies the church the most, which is prophesy.

Look at this verse in the Amplified version. This is word for word, and bracet for bracet :)

"What then, brethren, is [the right course]? When you meet together, each one has a hymn, a teaching, a disclosure of special knowledge or information of it. [But] let everything be constructive and edifying and for the good of all." `1 cor 14:26

Paul wished that all spoke in tongues, and that all would seek to prophecy. He was just setting some order for when "you meet together". When you meet together, then you should fall in order to how you believe God would have you to use a gift.

[SUNSTONE]

Today at 02:27 AM Andrew said this in Post #49 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=694125#post694125)

wa ai ka le gong ye saw jin ai le !!!
sen ai ni!



I asked someone today. "How does a mute person speak in tongues?"
They said, "I don't know, how?".

I scribbled on the board. :P

[SpiritPsalmist]

Today at 03:47 PM SUNSTONE said this in Post #54 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=695212#post695212)

I asked someone today. "How does a mute person speak in tongues?"
They said, "I don't know, how?".

I scribbled on the board. :P



 

:P GROAN! :P 




 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Today at 01:11 PM blindfaith said this in Post #51 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=694843#post694843)


The gifts of the Spirit are given to sealed believers.

blindfaith, what do you mean by "sealed believers"?

[Andrew]

And. . .Andrew says, Glory be to God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come . .

actually i used a dialect i know and it means "I want to tell you Jesus really loves you. God loves you". But your interpretation sounds better. *L :)

[Blindfaith]

blindfaith, what do you mean by "sealed believers"?

Hi Quaff!

What I meant was, a person who comes to Christ, and the point of justification is sealed by the Holy Spirit.  Did that make sense? :)

[SpiritPsalmist]

Yesterday at 09:45 PM Andrew said this in Post #57 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=696167#post696167)

actually i used a dialect i know and it means "I want to tell you Jesus really loves you. God loves you". But your interpretation sounds better. *L :)



OooooK, so I need to hone interpretation skills via the forum  :)

I was not really attempting to interpret, which I know you know. . . but actually, "Jesus loves you" was the first thing that popped into my head.  Then the other one popped in and I used it instead. 

I'm still learning to go with the first thought.  Even when I was just playin'.  :D 




 

[Andrew]

*LOL maybe tongues must be heard and not read to be interpreted? *L

hey at least God is using you in this area. keep it up!

[Xnot A citizenX]

I have continuted to pray about this subject over and over...and have talked to many of my friends about it...only like 2 out of the bunch of church going Jesus believing people I know believe in the "spiritual babbling" speaking in tounges...I am going to continue to pray hard and I know I will recieve an answer sometime...it has been about 4 monthes since I started researching and praying about the matter...and I haven't really be leaning either way...I have not been given a clear answer.....I guess it is just hard not knowing what you believe...And even wierder that out of all the time I have been in church that this is the first time that I have ever been confronted with this....it is wierd....I thank you all again for your help Quaffer...and everybody...I just ask that you please pray for me...because this really is weighing on my mind heavily....thanks :wave:

God bless,

XnotAcitizenX :pray:

[SUNSTONE]

Maybe this will help, from the Amplified bible.

"Then what am I to do ? I will pray with my spirit [by the Holy Spirit that is within me], but I will also pray [intelligently] with my mind and understanding; I will sing with my spirit [by the Holy Spirit that is within me], but I will sing [intelligently] with my mind and understanding also.
Otherwise, if you bless and render thanks with [your] spirit [thoruoghly aroused by the Holy Spirit], how can anyone in the position of an outsider or he who is not gifted with [interpreting of unknown] tongues, say the Amen to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying?" 1cor14:15+16

He goes on to say that he speaks in tongues more than all of this church.
And talks about when you gather together, if you speak in tongues, but no one interprets then you should be silent in the gathering, and speak in tongues by yourself with God.


If people prayed for hours and hours, like Jesus did and wanted the disciples to also do, what were they praying, or saying? Jesus for sure didn't want you to pray real long prayers on one thing, thinking that God will hear you better, so what could one pray for, for that long of a period?

[Andrew]

I am going to continue to pray hard and I know I will recieve an answer sometime...it has been about 4 monthes since I started researching and praying about the matter...and I haven't really be leaning either way...I have not been given a clear answer.....I guess it is just hard not knowing what you believe...

how do you know
god is not speaking to you thru some of the posters here? anyway, press on and dont quit. i believe u already know the answer in your heart.

[Xnot A citizenX]

Today at 09:51 AM Andrew said this in Post #63 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=700787#post700787)

how do you know
god is not speaking to you thru some of the posters here? anyway, press on and dont quit. i believe u already know the answer in your heart.




I honestly really do wish I knew what I believed....and I don't know what I believe in my heart...because nothing has really been forth coming...I have post on here and several other boards about the subject...this one has been the most helpful...so far...but I still don't now....I haven't even been in a church where "spiritual babbling" has occured.....the only place I have seen it is on those Jesus channels on tv ....and those people look like a bunch of fools...wacking people in the head and all...But I shall press on like you said until I get an answer...I am not the type to leave something alone just because finding the answer is hard..I will find out...whenever God feels he wants me to know...

God bless,

Xnot A citizenX :pray:

[Andrew]

Get a hold of these books if you can. The authors (i think once skeptics with lots of doubts and questions) present a very balanced view (with research studies) on this topic.

¥ They Speak With Other Tongues
by John L. Sherrill

¥ Beauty Of Spiritual Language, The
by Jack W. Hayford

it may help you in your search. God bless.

[Xnot A citizenX]

Thanks I will see if I can find those books anywhere around here...I will try the Christian bookstore first I guess ..You all on this board have been very helpful...unlike this guy on the Apostolic board telling me that I am going to hell if I don't speak in tounges and that I am not really saved...I swear it is people like that ..that scare people away from Christianity....uggg...Well thanks once again for you help..and the booklist

God bless,

Xnot A citizenX :pray:

[aus_koala]

Next time you are sitting quietly in prayer on your own just start allowing the sounds in your throat to come out without putting words around them. See what comes out. You may find you already have the gift but you are not using it.
I know that I can speak some Italian but no Italian word comes out of my mouth until I open it and make an attempt. The sound may not have the right accent but so what.
I found that after you start it becomes hard to stop. You know it is right as it takes on a form of language just like speaking English.

Some people are NOT given the gift (1 Corinthians 12) so if nothing wells up in your throat then don't be too concerned. Your salvation is a free gift and cannot be taken away after you have accepted it.
I would like to know if you try this and what happened.....

[Xnot A citizenX]

After much talk, debate, and research....oh and lets not forget lots and lots of pray.  I have come to the conclusion that sorry again for a lack of a better way of putting it speaking in tounges in the "spiritual babbling" sense isn't true.  It isn't something that happens or is helpful.  I searched the Bible up and down for anything about "spiritual babbling" and I came up with nothing.  I talked to many close friends and othe Christians about it.  And this is the conclusion I have come to.  Thanks to all of you for your help though. :hug:

[Andrew]

well, its sad you came to this conclusion. perhaps you were looking at/for the wrong thing.

[Alabare]

:pray:

[Alabare]

The Bible says that the Holy Spirit will interceed with our spirit because we don't even know what we should pray for. 3 years ago a pastor said "Praise God not for what He has done for you but just because He is God". It was then that I realized that I had never really worshiped God for who He is but only thanked Him for what He has done for me. I believed that I was a Christian just because I knew Jesus is God. But the Bible says that even they demon know that and tremble. It was at this time that I truely started to worship God for being MY GOD.
2 weeks later when I was searching for God with all my heart and worshipping Him with all my heart and soul I began to speak in praises to the Lord God Almighty with a language that no man could teach. It has totally changed my life. There aint no party like a Holy Ghost party cause a Holy Ghost party don't stop.

[aus_koala]

Not a citizen,
what makes you think God undertands/speaks in English? The reality is your prayers may just be babbling to him if his native language is not English.......think about it....

[SpiritPsalmist]

Yesterday at 10:52 PM Xnot A citizenX said this in Post #68 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=712116#post712116)

After much talk, debate, and research....oh and lets not forget lots and lots of pray.  I have come to the conclusion that sorry again for a lack of a better way of putting it speaking in tounges in the "spiritual babbling" sense isn't true.  It isn't something that happens or is helpful.  I searched the Bible up and down for anything about "spiritual babbling" and I came up with nothing.  I talked to many close friends and othe Christians about it.  And this is the conclusion I have come to.  Thanks to all of you for your help though. :hug:



Xnot A citizenX,

If you are looking for the term "spiritual babbling" then you will not find it in the Bible.  As I've said before that is a term that man has given it.

What do you mean when you say you have searched the Bible up and down and came up with nothing?   I gave you several scriptures where speaking in tongues was talked about. 

1 Cor 13 starts out with "if I speak with tongues of men or angels".   What exactly do you consider the tongues of angels to be and how are they different than the tongues of man and how exactly are we able to speak it?

I'm not trying to convince you to believe something you do not want to believe but the reasoning does not make sense to me.  I have found it several times in scripture and even gave you the references.

Quaffer  :confused:

[Xnot A citizenX]

Well I am sure God can speak whatever language he wants to.  Because well he is God...and you know he knows all and sees all.  Yeah he may have spoken in the language of angels, but is there any other record of anyone else doing it after that.  And why would we need to?  There isn't an answer

God Bless All,

XnotAcitizenX :pray:

[All4Christ]

Speaking in tongues IS a prayer language, but it's nothing really that you can do on your own to receive it. All you can do is to be open and ask God to enable you as He wills. I don't believe it is ESSENTIAL to your salvation. Like Andrew said, it is a sign of God's empowerment for ministry. But don't let your search for speaking in tongues take over your search for communion with God and becoming more like God. I'm Pentecostal, but I believe that this quote from one of the Orthodox Ancient Fathers explains this well:

"All these myseteries we have received at our baptism [or salvation], but we are not aware of them. When, however, we condemn ourselves for our lack of faith, and sincerely express our belief in Christ by performing all the commandments, then we shall acquire experience within ourselves of all the things that I have mentioned; and we shall confess that holy baptism is indeed complete and that the grace of Christ is invisibly hidden within us; but it awaits our obedience and our fulfilment of the commandments."

Maybe this doesn't make sense, and maybe it doesn't completely follow the Pentecostal way of thinking, but I do believe it points out the need for 'sanctification' that comes along with your search for the infilling of the Holy Spirit. I believe that all too often, people desire to speak in tongues and to have the signs of the Holy Spirit in their lives, when it is just as important if not more important to continually strive to "express our belief in Christ by performing all the commandments" or by being more like Christ. Strive to purify yourself, and pray that God empowers you with the Holy Spirit. God is faithful, and in his timing, He will fill and empower you with His Spirit if you are willing to let Him do so.

[All4Christ]

By the way, xNot a Citizenx, besides the references in the Bible, there also are many references historically back to the Church Fathers such as St. Augustine, etc. plus at the Council of Nicea, etc. that also support the idea of speaking in tongues. :) God Bless and Keep you all Safe from Harm!

[SpiritPsalmist]

Today at 10:18 AM Xnot A citizenX said this in Post #74 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=712951#post712951)

Well I am sure God can speak whatever language he wants to.  Because well he is God...and you know he knows all and sees all.  Yeah he may have spoken in the language of angels, but is there any other record of anyone else doing it after that.  And why would we need to?  There isn't an answer

God Bless All,

XnotAcitizenX :pray:



What does the quantity of times recorded have to do with it?  I don't know that Pauls letters are in time order.  Here's a few more scriptures.

Mark 16:17 (KJV) And thees signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Acts 2:4 (KJV) And they were filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 2:11 (KJV) Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

Acts 10:46 (KJV) For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.

Acts 19:6 (KJV) And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues,

1 Cor 12:10 (KJV) To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues;

1 Cor 12:28 (KJV) And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diveristies of tongues.

1 Cor 13:1 (Amplified)  If I [can] speak in the tongues of men and [even] of angels.

1 Cor 14:2 (Amplified) For one who speaks in an [unknown] tongue speaks not to men but to God, for no onoe understands or catches his meaning, because in the [Holy] Spirit he utters secret truths adn hidden things [not obvious to the understanding.

1 Cor 14:4 (Amplified) He who speaks in a [strange] tongue edifies and improves himself

1 Cor 14:5 (KJV) I would that ye all spake with tongues

1 Cor 14:13 (Amplified) Therefore, the person who speaks in an [unknown] tongue should pray [for the power] to interpret and explain whe he says.

1 Cor 14:14 (Amplified) For if I pray in an [unknown] tongue, my spirit [by the Holy Spirit within me] prays,

1 Cor 14:15 (Amplified) Then what am I to do? I will pray with my spirit [by the Holy Spirit that is within me],  but I will also pray [intelligently] with my mind and understanding; I will sing with my spirit [by the Holy Spirit that is within me], but I will sing [intelligently] with my mind adn understanding also.

1 Cor 14:18 (Amplified) I thank God that I speak in [strange] tongues (languages) more than any of you or all of you put together.

1 Cor 14:39 (Amplified) and do not forbid or hinder speaking in [unknown] tongues. 


 

Edited to add more scriptures :)

[SUNSTONE]

Speaking in tongues is fun :wave: Its one way of constantly acknowledging God is present, to yourself. So often I don't know what to pray, and so I speak in tongues. I can do this for very long periods of time, all through out the day.

It helps with stress and pain as well.

[Xnot A citizenX]

Thanks for your help...but I have come to my conclusion, and unless something freaky happens or I am slapped with the big fat hand of FACT I won't be changing my mind.  Thanks for the help though   :clap:

[SpiritPsalmist]

Today at 03:45 PM Xnot A citizenX said this in Post #79 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=713610#post713610)

Thanks for your help...but I have come to my conclusion, and unless something freaky happens or I am slapped with the big fat hand of FACT I won't be changing my mind.  Thanks for the help though   :clap:



OK. . .well. . .thanks for listening anyway.  The Lord will bless you either way.  :)

[MyangelDems]

might the tongues sound like babbling because a person might not be fully mature in the gift? Myself, I talk in tongues in private prayers sometimes, but mostly I find myself listening to other's speaking tongues in church and being able to understand them. For some reason I prefer the understanding to the actual talking. I don't say that i can understand EVERYONE who is speaking tongues, just quite a few of them. It comes to me like English. I think tongues is just a gift, you don't have to have it, God doesn't give it to everybody, but if you want it then pray and tell God about it.

[MyangelDems]

CORRECTION:
I said when others speak tongues it comes to me like english but the most accurate way of describing it is rather like when spanish isnt your native language but you know it, you find yourself translating in your head from spanish to english, you hear the word in spanish, then you translate it to english, dont know if this makes sense.

[All4Christ]

It sounds like you have the gift of interpretation? Correct me if I'm wrong...

[MyangelDems]

i"ve no idea? where would i find references for this in the bible? any help would be appreciated. I got up the nerve to approach one of the people after church who had been speaking in tongues about it, and they said that what I spoke of was exactly what she was praying about in tongues. Up until then I'd simply thought that people I heard were speaking English. I thought everyone heard them and it was well....normal?

[aus_koala]

Myangeldems, I agree with all4Christ that you have the Gift of Interpretation. Read 1 Corinthians 12:10,30, 1 Corinthians 14:13 and 1 Corinthians 14:26-28.

Personally I have only been able to interpret one other persons message at a prayer meeting. I found that it came to me in 'English' and originally I thought it was a message for everyone at the prayer meeting but after listening for a couple of minutes I realised it was actually a message for me. God was gracious enough for me to be able to understand the message without embarrassing me in front of the others at the prayer meeting. The person ho was speaking in tongues had no idea what they were actually saying or that they had delivered a message to me. As far as they were concerned they were praying to God in tongues but the reality was they were delivering a message from God. To me it is a moment that will stay in my mind forever and remind me of the power and graciousness of God.
If you have this gift then use it widely. Let God use this Gift through you and it will change the world (or at least some people......)

[Xnot A citizenX]

Is it just me or do most people/churches that believe in speaking in tounges in the "spiritual babbling" sense of the word come from an Apostolic or Penecostal church/background?  Because everyone that I have heard about doing it and everyone that I have heard being for it in my many studies has been Penecostal or Apostolic.  I mean they even make reference to speaking in tounges "spiritual babbling" in Fight Club...and they say Penecostal....I mean honestly is it just me?

[Andrew]

Is it just me or do most people/churches that believe in speaking in tounges in the "spiritual babbling" sense of the word come from an Apostolic or Penecostal church/background?

I think it is just you *L. :)
All the people I know who speak in tongues are neither Apostolic or Pentecostal -- just non-denom or inter-denom or charismatic )or whatever u might wanna call it.

but we dont refer to it as "spiritual babbling" just tongues or spiritual language. also, most of the tongues I've heard sound just like a language, ie not some babbling, so its odd to me that you refer to it as "babbling".

[Xnot A citizenX]

Ok well I guess everybody that I have talked to just happened to be Apostolic or Penecostal...or something steming from Penecostalism......but I find that odd...since it was about 100 people I have talked to about this or more....And I refer to it as babbling because when I have seen it...it sounds just like that babbling...not a language..it may sound like a language...but if it doesn't make sense it ends up being babble...I am a skeptic about this whole thing...now..for many reasons..one being my girlfriend doesn't even believe in it..and she went to a Holiness Penecostal Church...or as we like to call it the Penecostal Cult

[Andrew]

it may sound like a language...but if it doesn't make sense it ends up being babble.

so if i spoke Mandarin or Hokkien dialect to you and it doesnt make any sense to you does it mean I'm just babbling? And since it doesnt make any sense to you do you then write it off as not a genuine language? Who determines what's a language? God the giver of languages or man and his limited understanding?

[aus_koala]

Not a citizen,
my background is Catholic.

[Xnot A citizenX]

Main Entry: <B>lan·guage</B> <IMG height=11 src="http://www.m-w.com/images/audio.gif" width=16 border=0> (javascript:popWin('/cgi-bin/audio.pl?langua01.wav=language'))
Pronunciation: <TT>'la[ng]-gwij, -wij</TT>
Function: <I>noun</I>
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French, from <I>langue </I>tongue, language, from Latin <I>lingua</I> -- more at TONGUE (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&amp;va=tongue)
Date: 14th century
<B>1 a</B> <B>:</B> the words, their pronunciation, and the methods of combining them used and understood by a community

That is the definition of language.&nbsp; And it doesn't fit.&nbsp; And I said most of the people I have met concerning this issure have come from a Penecostal or something stemming from Penecostal background.

[aus_koala]

I saw some scientific research that had been done on this about 3 years ago. Sorry I dont have any link, cannot even remember where I read it other than it was a secular scientific document as opposed to something put out by the church.

They examined people that were filmed talking in tongues as opposed to people making something up knowing in advance they were to be filmed.

However the upshot of it all was that the people that they had examined speaking in tongues by experts in linguistics came to the conclusion that the 'babble' had the form and structure of a language and for all intents and purposes it appeared to be language.

Scepticism is good, question everything.......

&nbsp;

[aus_koala]

Language in the Geddes and Grosset English dictionary published in 1999 has the meaning as :

human speech or the written symbols for speech; any means of communicating; a special set of symbols used for programming a computer; the speech of a particular nation, etc; the particular style of verbal expression characteristic of a person, group, profession, etc.


Lingual means:
of, or pronounced with, the tongue.

Linguistics means:
the science of language.


Seems to fit to me....... I think you should change dictionaries......

[Xnot A citizenX]

I do question every and anything.&nbsp; Because I find that Bible isn't very clear on the whole "babble" point, that being I can't find anything about the "babble" speaking in tounges.....just the other language speaking in tounges.&nbsp; I would be interested in seeing the study if you can find it that ough buh...

[aus_koala]

Now you have set me a challenge, I will see what I can do, I am curious now to remember exactly what it said. I am not a big fan of paraphrasing....

[SpiritPsalmist]

17th March 2003 at 09:21 PM Xnot A citizenX said this in Post #94 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=720230#post720230)

I do question every and anything.&nbsp; Because I find that Bible isn't very clear on the whole "babble" point, that being I can't find anything about the "babble" speaking in tounges.....just the other language speaking in tounges.&nbsp; I would be interested in seeing the study if you can find it that ough buh...



OK Xnot A citizenX,

I again question this statement.&nbsp; I gave you a list, a long list of several scripture ref to speaking in tongues, yet you still say it's not in the Bible.&nbsp; :scratch:

http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?s=&amp;postid=713351#post713351

[JesusServant]

17th March 2003 at 08:21 PM Xnot A citizenX said this in Post #94 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=720230#post720230)

I do question every and anything.&nbsp; Because I find that Bible isn't very clear on the whole "babble" point, that being I can't find anything about the "babble" speaking in tounges.....just the other language speaking in tounges.&nbsp; I would be interested in seeing the study if you can find it that ough buh...




Pay attention here NotACitizen and everyone else that thinks that tongues by the Holy Spirit&nbsp;should or were&nbsp;always understood by the speaker and/or those around them...&nbsp; READ the highlighted scriptures here by Paul.&nbsp; PLEASE pay attention to what they say, not what they don't say....

(1 Corinthians 14:1) Follow after love; yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

(1 Corinthians 14:2) For he that speaketh in a tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God; for no man understandeth; but in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Hello?&nbsp; Read what that says in 14:2 over and over until it sinks in please.&nbsp; I'm tired of these same tongues debates from people that think just because they haven't experienced something themselves that it cannot be.

(1 Corinthians 14:3) But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men edification, and exhortation, and consolation.

(1 Corinthians 14:4) He that speaketh in a tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

(1 Corinthians 14:5) Now I would have you all speak with tongues, but rather that ye should prophesy: and greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

(1 Corinthians 14:6) But now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, unless I speak to you either by way of revelation, or of knowledge, or of prophesying, or of teaching?

(1 Corinthians 14:7) Even things without life, giving a voice, whether pipe or harp, if they give not a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?

(1 Corinthians 14:8) For if the trumpet give an uncertain voice, who shall prepare himself for war?

(1 Corinthians 14:9) So also ye, unless ye utter by the tongue speech easy to understand, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye will be speaking into the air.

(1 Corinthians 14:10) There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and no kind is without signification.

(1 Corinthians 14:11) If then I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be to him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh will be a barbarian unto me.

(1 Corinthians 14:12) So also ye, since ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may abound unto the edifying of the church.

(1 Corinthians 14:13) Wherefore let him that speaketh in a tongue pray that he may interpret.

(1 Corinthians 14:14) For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

You see, there is a "prayer language" for your soul.&nbsp; It is useful when you are in agony or crying out to God and there are no words left to say and/or you don't know what else to say to God but your soul is still crying out.&nbsp; This is a form of tongues that is healthy for your spirit and Paul would have it that all people pray in their own tongue.&nbsp; This is best useful in private when you're in your "prayer closet" and is not edifying to the Church, but it IS edifying to your own spirit.&nbsp; It is only edifying to the Church if you can interpret or&nbsp;someone else can interpret the message in a meeting of Church people.

(1 Corinthians 14:15) What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

(1 Corinthians 14:16) Else if thou bless with the spirit, how shall he that filleth the place of the unlearned say the Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he knoweth not what thou sayest?

(1 Corinthians 14:17) For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.

(1 Corinthians 14:18) I thank God, I speak with tongues more than you all:

(1 Corinthians 14:19) howbeit in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that I might instruct others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue.

(1 Corinthians 14:20) Brethren, be not children in mind: yet in malice be ye babes, but in mind be men.

(1 Corinthians 14:21) In the law it is written, By men of strange tongues and by the lips of strangers will I speak unto this people; and not even thus will they hear me, saith the Lord.

(1 Corinthians 14:22) Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to the unbelieving: but prophesying is for a sign, not to the unbelieving, but to them that believe.

(1 Corinthians 14:23) If therefore the whole church be assembled together and all speak with tongues, and there come in men unlearned or unbelieving, will they not say that ye are mad?

Sounds like what people who claim to be believers do even in these forums.&nbsp; :sigh:

(1 Corinthians 14:24) But if all prophesy, and there come in one unbelieving or unlearned, he is reproved by all, he is judged by all;

(1 Corinthians 14:25) the secrets of his heart are made manifest; and so he will fall down on his face and worship God, declaring that God is among you indeed.

(1 Corinthians 14:26) What is it then, brethren? When ye come together, each one hath a psalm, hath a teaching, hath a revelation, hath a tongue, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

(1 Corinthians 14:27) If any man speaketh in a tongue, let it be by two, or at the most three, and that in turn; and let one interpret:

(1 Corinthians 14:28) but if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

(1 Corinthians 14:29) And let the prophets speak by two or three, and let the others discern.

(1 Corinthians 14:30) But if a revelation be made to another sitting by, let the first keep silence.

(1 Corinthians 14:31) For ye all can prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be exhorted;

(1 Corinthians 14:32) and the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets;

(1 Corinthians 14:33) for God is not a God of confusion, but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,

(1 Corinthians 14:34) let the women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but let them be in subjection, as also saith the law.

(1 Corinthians 14:35) And if they would learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home: for it is shameful for a woman to speak in the church.

(1 Corinthians 14:36) What? was it from you that the word of God went forth? or came it unto you alone?

(1 Corinthians 14:37) If any man thinketh himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him take knowledge of the things which I write unto you, that they are the commandment of the Lord.

(1 Corinthians 14:38) But if any man is ignorant, let him be ignorant.


Maybe I should just let this go and let him who is ignorant remain ignorant about tongues, edification and prophecy.

(1 Corinthians 14:39) Wherefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

(1 Corinthians 14:40) But let all things be done decently and in order.

I have found what you could not XNotACitizenX and showed it to you.&nbsp; Would you remain ignorant to the full understanding of tongues and the two uses of tongues or would you be willing to admit that you just haven't experienced them yet and spoke out of ignorance concerning the truth about tongues?&nbsp; I am not judging you for I too misjudged tongues and those who spoke in tongues and for what reasons tongues were used then and today.&nbsp; God bless.

[SpiritPsalmist]

Wow JesusServant,

Your list is even longer than mine. . .good job!

[JesusServant]

Thanks Quaffer. I went back and looked at your list after I posted that and you mentioned several other very valid Scriptures I didn't. I just wanted to show the entire chapter so that I can't be accused of taking it out of context. Paul explains why a church full of people speaking in their own tongue is useless to the church as a whole, but he assuredly backs up people speaking in unknown (babble as N.A.C. called it) tongues throughout 1st Cor. 14 and how it is edifying to their spirit own spirit to do so. In fact he wished that everyone spoke in tongues. :)

[Xnot A citizenX]

Please point out where they would be talking about something that is "babble" and not speaking in a known language...maybe I am blind and just don't see it....or maybe it isn't there.

1 Corinthians 13:8-12
8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part,
10 but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.
11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.
12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

[JesusServant]

Today at 12:48 PM Xnot A citizenX said this in Post #100 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=723761#post723761)

Please point out where they would be talking about something that is "babble" and not speaking in a known language...maybe I am blind and just don't see it....or maybe it isn't there.

Apparently that is the case.&nbsp; You do not want to see it, your mind is made up.&nbsp; I pray that God would open your eyes and give you an experience regarding tongues.


1 Corinthians 13:8-12
8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part,
10 but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.
11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.
12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

I'm sorry I didn't realize you were now made perfect and no longer needed the guiding of the Holy Spirit.

That Scripture is the one and only "proof text" that Baptists (the church I currently attend - who the preacher and his wife pray in tongues but cannot tell other members of the church because they wouldn't understand as you don't) and other denominations use to say that God let the spiritual gifts of the Holy Spirit go away.&nbsp;

Read the very next chapter NOA (1st Cor 14 that I posted) you apparently did not.&nbsp; Why would Paul say the gifts of the Spirit ceased to exist in chapter 13 and then turn around in chapter 14 and say that he would have everyone speak in tongues and that they should pray for the gift of prophecy?&nbsp;&nbsp;


&nbsp;

[JesusServant]

Today at 12:48 PM Xnot A citizenX said this in Post #100 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=723761#post723761)

Please point out where they would be talking about something that is "babble" and not speaking in a known language...maybe I am blind and just don't see it....or maybe it isn't there.

1 Corinthians 13:8-12
8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part,
10 but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.
11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.
12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.



Here, I'll post it again since my last post was too long for you and was ignored... This time I'll post the most pertinent Scripture that Paul wrote AFTER the Scripture you are holding onto and just posted...


(1 Corinthians 14:2) For he that speaketh in a tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God; for no man understandeth; but in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Hello?&nbsp; Read what that says in 14:2 over and over until it sinks in please.&nbsp; Notice that he says no man understands!&nbsp; If he was speaking in a "real language" wouldn't a man somewhere be able to understand?&nbsp; Hello?&nbsp;

(1 Corinthians 14:4) He that speaketh in a tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

(1 Corinthians 14:5) Now I would have you all speak with tongues, but rather that ye should prophesy: and greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

(1 Corinthians 14:39) Wherefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

[JesusServant]

BTW, I apologize if I sound snippy NAC, I don't mean to be. But it seems I cannot get this across to people here. I too was ignorant to the gifts and especially tongues and I have to try and get through to people the truth which was never brought to my attention and I feel the need to bring it to the attention of others. I feel terrible now that I made fun and didn't understand then and praise God that He showed me. You should've seen my eyes the first time I spoke in tongues, you would've thought they'd just pop right out of my head. I was in shock, but my soul was uplifted and I felt&nbsp;a burden leave me and an uplifting from it. I promise you tongues&nbsp;are real, and I know some people misuse tongues and some probably even fake it for their own gain, I don't know, all I know is that the gift is real and of the Holy Spirit.

[SpiritPsalmist]

Today at 01:48 PM Xnot A citizenX said this in Post #100 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=723761#post723761)

Please point out where they would be talking about something that is "babble" and not speaking in a known language...maybe I am blind and just don't see it....or maybe it isn't there.

1 Corinthians 13:8-12
8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part,
10 but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.
11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.
12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.




Xnot A citizenX

So you believe that this "one" scripture nullifies all the one's JesusServant and I gave you?????

What do you believe the "perfect" is, that it has already come and done away with prophecy, tongues, and knowledge.&nbsp; Are we not still learning things?&nbsp; Obviously, knowledge is not gone so why would we assume that prophecy and tongues is gone.&nbsp;&nbsp;

Jesus is the One that is Perfect and He has NOT&nbsp;returned yet.&nbsp; When He does, these things will no longer be needed because then we will see Him face to face.&nbsp; We will know Him fully.&nbsp; Just as fully as He knows us.&nbsp; Until then, we still need these gifts He gives us.

Again, speaking in tongues is not required in order to be a Christian, but it certaintly will help you be a more victorious one.

Quaffer

[SUNSTONE]

I bet I pray a ratio of 10 to 1 in tongues than in the truth(words of my own understanding.

Even at work I do, I am carefull not to do it around other people. If they hear me, they usually think I am babbling and don't even pay any attention.

I worship in tongues more than anything, but then there are times I feel the urge to just pray in tongues.

[SpiritPsalmist]

Today at 04:02 PM SUNSTONE said this in Post #105 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=723982#post723982)

I bet I pray a ratio of 10 to 1 in tongues than in the truth(words of my own understanding.

Even at work I do, I am carefull not to do it around other people. If they hear me, they usually think I am babbling and don't even pay any attention.

I worship in tongues more than anything, but then there are times I feel the urge to just pray in tongues.



I pray in tongues most when I don't know what to pray.&nbsp; Like in the forums where somebody shares a prayer request.&nbsp; I pray in tongues so that the Spirit does the praying and intercedes for the correct things.&nbsp;

In my own understanding I don't know that I can pray for the things and changes that are "really" needed, according to God.&nbsp; And as I pray in tongues, often, thoughts pass through my mind and then I pray with understanding (in English) and in the direction that the thought took me.&nbsp;

I also pray in tongues when I become frustrated and don't know what to do or say.&nbsp; Again, the Spirit begins making intercession, for my need.&nbsp; What He knows I need, not what I think I need.&nbsp;

When I do this, sometimes, I hear the most amazing things flow out of my mouth.&nbsp; Giving answers to people&nbsp;that I never would have thought of on my own.&nbsp; The Spirit making intercession and revealing what to say.&nbsp; Of course, I don't do this out loud with&nbsp; people who don't understand.

I worship and praise in tongues.&nbsp; It causes me to go higher in my worship of Him.&nbsp; It brings a close fellowship so I know that the Spirit is praising through me and I am worshipping Him in the way that He likes best.

By praying in tongues I receive&nbsp;the strength to be a victorious&nbsp;Christian.&nbsp; One who&nbsp;is not overcome but overcomes.&nbsp; :)

This experience of tongues is fully backed up in Rom 8:26-28.&nbsp; It does not specifically say tongues but verse 26 says the Spirit makes intercession for us with unspeakable yearnings and groanings.

I believe tongues, as a prayer language is for ALL believers.&nbsp; I&nbsp;believe this because, God is not a respector of persons&nbsp;(Romans 2:11) therefore, He&nbsp;would not give only some believers a gift that built them up but keep it away from&nbsp;others.

Not All believers have the gift&nbsp;of tongues but as a prayer language, it is offered to all who want it.&nbsp; Contrary to some peoples opinions, it&nbsp;is up to you.&nbsp;

[Xnot A citizenX]

When I mean perfection I am meaning the completion of the Bible.&nbsp; So since we have the Bible that means the gifts have passed away today.&nbsp;1 Cor.13:8

[Andrew]

When I mean perfection I am meaning the completion of the Bible.Ê So since we have the Bible that means the gifts have passed away today.Ê1 Cor.13:8


The perfection simply cannot mean the completion of the Bible.
Obvious reasons here:

http://sg.geocities.com/saltandlight5/cessation.html

[SpiritPsalmist]

Today at 02:40 AM Xnot A citizenX said this in Post #107 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=725314#post725314)

When I mean perfection I am meaning the completion of the Bible.&nbsp; So since we have the Bible that means the gifts have passed away today.&nbsp;1 Cor.13:8



IF that is true then that would also mean that you are now perfect.&nbsp; You now see Him face to face and you know Him just as fully as He knows you.&nbsp; (1 Cor 13:10-12)&nbsp;&nbsp;Since knowledge has passed away, there is nothing new for you to learn because you now know it all.&nbsp; You operate and hear God perfectly.&nbsp;

Is that the case?

&nbsp;

[SUNSTONE]

Amen

If the gifts went away, then why do we have teachers?and evagelists?
If we never needed healing, then wouldn't that mean that we never get hurt?

[JesusServant]

Yesterday at 01:40 AM Xnot A citizenX said this in Post #107 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=725314#post725314)

When I mean perfection I am meaning the completion of the Bible.&nbsp; So since we have the Bible that means the gifts have passed away today.&nbsp;1 Cor.13:8




Perfection is the completion of the Bible?&nbsp; :D

[JesusServant]

19th March 2003 at 02:36 PM Quaffer said this in Post #104 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=723900#post723900)




Xnot A citizenX

So you believe that this "one" scripture nullifies all the one's JesusServant and I gave you?????

What do you believe the "perfect" is, that it has already come and done away with prophecy, tongues, and knowledge.&nbsp; Are we not still learning things?&nbsp; Obviously, knowledge is not gone so why would we assume that prophecy and tongues is gone.&nbsp;&nbsp;

Jesus is the One that is Perfect and He has NOT&nbsp;returned yet.&nbsp; When He does, these things will no longer be needed because then we will see Him face to face.&nbsp; We will know Him fully.&nbsp; Just as fully as He knows us.&nbsp; Until then, we still need these gifts He gives us.

Again, speaking in tongues is not required in order to be a Christian, but it certaintly will help you be a more victorious one.

Quaffer



Excellent post Quaffer.&nbsp; However, I urge you to let it go.&nbsp; He isn't ready.&nbsp; I was in his shoes at that age and&nbsp;I too was&nbsp;just trying to hold on to false teachings.&nbsp;

[Xnot A citizenX]

I haven't been listening to any false teachings.&nbsp; I went I studied I researched read a lot prayed had conversations with people that is about it.&nbsp; I have come to the conclusion on my own.&nbsp; Not because of what someone else has told me.&nbsp; I thank all of you for your help though.

[aus_koala]

Xnot a citizenX,
dont take the rest of this post the wrong way. It is not a criticism but just trying to point out that we are not always aware of Gods plans and His timings. You should continue to believe in God, accept salvation through Jesus Christ and continue to spend time examining His word and he will reveal to you the things you need at the time it is required for you and for His glory.


Quaffer and JesusServant,
it is possible that God has hardened his heart to this at this stage. We can pray for people but we must be praying that all things happen in Gods way as his way is the perfect way. He knows what will happen in the future and we do not. There may be a reason for him to have "ears that dont hear or eyes that dont see". This even occurred with the Apostles if you read Mark 8.

Some people claim that a person with a hardened haert is due to Satan. Well my reading of scriptures shows that God himself can do this. My personal experience is that God does this because the time is not right. He will open the ears, open the eyes or soften the heart IN HIS TIME.


From Mark 6:
Then he climbed into the boat with them, and the wind died down. They were completely amazed, 52for they had not understood about the loaves; their hearts were hardened.

From Mark 8:
Do you still not see or understand? Are your hearts hardened? 18Do you have eyes but fail to see, and ears but fail to hear? And don't you remember?

From Exodus 10:
Then the LORD said to Moses, "Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the hearts of his officials so that I may perform these miraculous signs of mine among them

From Joshua 11:
For it was the LORD himself who hardened their hearts to wage war against Israel

From Romans 9:
Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

From Romans 11:
And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace. What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did not obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened, as it is written:
"God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes so that they could not see
and ears so that they could not hear,
to this very day."[

[Andrew]

Where in the Bible does it say that tongues is the "least" gift??

[SpiritPsalmist]

Andrew,

I thought there was a verse that distinctly said tongues was the least but at the moment can't find it. I did find though 1 Cor 12:27-28 (NKJ) "Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. "

It appears that Paul is listing the gifts in their order. But we see that tongues is not necessarily the only "least" gifts. . . "then gifts of healings, helps, adminstrations, varieties of tongues." These last four giftings seem to be lumped together and equal in importance.

Thanks for asking that question Andrew, I never noticed that before. :D

[Andrew]

Yes Quaffer, but if one reads the entire chapter, Paul is talking about the members of the body of Christ, ie you and me, no the gifts for the gifts dont make up the body of Christ. And so He says:

20 As it is, there are many parts, yet one body.
21 The eye cannot say to the hand, ÒI have no need of you,Ó nor again the head to the feet, ÒI have no need of you.Ó
22 On the contrary, the parts of the body which seem to be weaker are indispensable,

So my point is that scripture really doesnt seem to grade the gifts at all, unless one assumes that order of listing implies gradation. If anything, then, it grades the members of the body ie the people. Yet we are told "the parts of the body which seem to be weaker are indispensable".

hope you get my drift. :)

[hobart schmedly]

Here is a web site which has a course of lessons that will help you:
http://www.bereanonline.com/rcframe.html
Go to the link: "The School" and select the Course "How To Prophesy".

1. Not only does God want you to pray in tongues, He also wants you to prophesy.
2. You can learn how to pray in tongues and prophesy... and unless you are without speech, you already have: and just did not know what you were doing at the time. If you have ever said "Abba" from out of your spirit, you were speaking in tongues. If you ever followed with "Father" from out of your spirit, you were interpreting. If you have ever just said "Father" from out of your spirit without tongues... you were prophesying. This is the baby talk of every born again Christian. The words are in there. They are in us all. All you have to do is speak them.
3. The Spirit of God does not speak in tongues, your spirit does. If you are waiting for God to take over your voice and force you to speak, then you are in for a long wait. He gives "utterance", which is a manifestation in the mind and vocal organs of a person. He does not do the speaking, you do:
"When I pray in an unknow tongue, my spirit prays...."
Paul 1 Cor 14

[SpiritPsalmist]

Yesterday at 08:34 PM Andrew said this in Post #117 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=734089#post734089)

Yes Quaffer, but if one reads the entire chapter, Paul is talking about the members of the body of Christ, ie you and me, no the gifts for the gifts dont make up the body of Christ. And so He says:

20 As it is, there are many parts, yet one body.
21 The eye cannot say to the hand, ÒI have no need of you,Ó nor again the head to the feet, ÒI have no need of you.Ó
22 On the contrary, the parts of the body which seem to be weaker are indispensable,

So my point is that scripture really doesnt seem to grade the gifts at all, unless one assumes that order of listing implies gradation. If anything, then, it grades the members of the body ie the people. Yet we are told "the parts of the body which seem to be weaker are indispensable".

hope you get my drift. :)



Well, I have read the whole chapter but I never looked at it that way before.&nbsp;

Thanks Andrew. :)

[JesusServant]

21st March 2003 at 11:56 PM Xnot A citizenX said this in Post #113 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=729089#post729089)

I haven't been listening to any false teachings.&nbsp; I went I studied I researched read a lot prayed had conversations with people that is about it.&nbsp; I have come to the conclusion on my own.&am