Moravian spirituality

[Bastoune]

Grace and peace to you all!

Could anyone give me a background into "Moravian" spirituality in Methodism or other Protestant denominations? I am fascinated with what little I have heard about it because of the apparent contemplative focus on the wounds of Christ?

Any information would be appreciated! Thanks!

TIM

[puriteen18]

Never heard of that, but I visited the Moravian Church in Winston-Salem, SC last year. The one thing I learned about them was that they do not profess any specific doctrine. I kept asking questions and it is not that they have no doctrine, but just that you can be a Moravian withour agreeing with the rest of your brethren.

I know that didn't answer your question, and I'm sorry I couldn't be of more help.

Here are some websites that might be of use to you:

http://www.oldsalem.org/

And you probably have already been here but anyway:
http://www.moravian.org/

This should be helpful. It seems to speak on the Moravian deovtion to the Blood and wounds.
http://www.wfu.edu/academics/history/Events/Moravians/papers/atwood.doc

[JVAC]

They started from what was the "HUSSITE HERESY". That is, Jan Hus went against the Catholic Church, sorta like an early Luther, only without support of the ruling class.

So, yeah, They burned him.



Then, they have existed in bohemia for a long time, goin around and stuff, but there are som good links above, I just thought I would throw in some history.

[Bastoune]

They're Hussite? Ahhh... I see! I know all about Jan Hus. I have heard of the Moravian Church but was surprised to hear about "Moravian spirituality" in the Methodist Church (specifically -- it was casually mentioned in an article I read) and was wondering what is distinct about it, and what the tie to Methodism was... no luck so far but thanks for your info.

[puriteen18]

I think, if I remember correctly, John Wesley had went to Georgia as an Anglican missionary. He ran into the Moravians and had a conversion experience under their teachings. But he knew there was doctrinal differences so he didn't join them.

[JVAC]

I never understood why the Moravians didn't join up with the Lutherans after the peace of Augsburg, does anyone know why? They share our confessions.

[Polycarp1]

I never understood why the Moravians didn't join up with the Lutherans after the peace of Augsburg, does anyone know why? They share our confessions.
Well, we're out to fix that: ELCA and ECUSA have begun discussions with the Moravian Church in America aimed at full communion! :)

[puriteen18]

Well, we're out to fix that: ELCA and ECUSA have begun discussions with the Moravian Church in America aimed at full communion! :)
What is meant by full communion?

[countrymousenc]

I never understood why the Moravians didn't join up with the Lutherans after the peace of Augsburg, does anyone know why? They share our confessions.


Actually, the Moravian Church is in full communion with the Evangelical Lutheran Church. Being Methodist and having grown up in Winston-Salem among Moravian friends, perhaps I can help a little. When John Wesley sailed to the colonies he was on a ship with a group of Moravians. He was highly impressed that they were singing and praising God under some really bad sailing conditions. Later on, back in England, he had what he called a "heartwarming experience" while worshiping with a group of Moravians. For Methodists, that resulted in adding Experience to the Anglican triad of Scripture, Tradition and Reason. Moravians originally called themselves "Unitas Fratrum" in honor of the Hussites, reviving their original tradition. The Hussites, residents of Moravia and Bohemia, were originally Eastern Orthodox, but politics changed that and they were taken into Roman Catholic territory. The Roman Church at that time gave only the bread of the Eucharist to the people; I'm told that it was because wine was difficult to transport and store. Jan Hus was executed for his protest, and his followers were persecuted nearly into oblivion. Maybe it was the Church, maybe the state; I don't want to get into a blame game. Either a few followers survived or only documents survived, but the Unitas Fratrum's dream of a church in which the people experienced personal piety - "heartfelt religion" - was realized on the estate of Count Zinzendorf. From there, the Moravians spread westward, eventually establishing groups in the American colonies in Pennsylvania, North Carolina, and Georgia. They were initially separatists, living in strictly ruled communities with peripheral provisions for "strangers" - non-Moravians. The North Carolina tract of land was called "Wachau" from which the Wachovia bank adapted its name. Moravians are Trinitarian and creedal and recognize baptism and communion as sacraments. But, like all our mainstream Protestant denoms, modernism has crept in.

If any of you are ever in North Carolina, you would enjoy visiting Old Salem.

[JVAC]

Yes I do recall the ELCA being in full communion with the moravians, and I do recall Luther saying that the Hussites should be encouraged to rejoin the church once reformed. This didn't work out, as we know, but I don't recall Luther talking much about the Hussites after the Lutheran Faith became legaly recognized as a Christian faith.

I do know what happened to the Hussites, but I don't recall thier political/religous association with the early Lutheran Church. It is my thought that the Hussites were basically strict Lutherans. Jan Hus taught the same things Luther taught.

Is there any difference between a Moravian and a Lutheran?

[Blackhawk]

Actually, the Moravian Church is in full communion with the Evangelical Lutheran Church. Being Methodist and having grown up in Winston-Salem among Moravian friends, perhaps I can help a little. When John Wesley sailed to the colonies he was on a ship with a group of Moravians. He was highly impressed that they were singing and praising God under some really bad sailing conditions. Later on, back in England, he had what he called a "heartwarming experience" while worshiping with a group of Moravians. For Methodists, that resulted in adding Experience to the Anglican triad of Scripture, Tradition and Reason. Moravians originally called themselves "Unitas Fratrum" in honor of the Hussites, reviving their original tradition. The Hussites, residents of Moravia and Bohemia, were originally Eastern Orthodox, but politics changed that and they were taken into Roman Catholic territory. The Roman Church at that time gave only the bread of the Eucharist to the people; I'm told that it was because wine was difficult to transport and store. Jan Hus was executed for his protest, and his followers were persecuted nearly into oblivion. Maybe it was the Church, maybe the state; I don't want to get into a blame game. Either a few followers survived or only documents survived, but the Unitas Fratrum's dream of a church in which the people experienced personal piety - "heartfelt religion" - was realized on the estate of Count Zinzendorf. From there, the Moravians spread westward, eventually establishing groups in the American colonies in Pennsylvania, North Carolina, and Georgia. They were initially separatists, living in strictly ruled communities with peripheral provisions for "strangers" - non-Moravians. The North Carolina tract of land was called "Wachau" from which the Wachovia bank adapted its name. Moravians are Trinitarian and creedal and recognize baptism and communion as sacraments. But, like all our mainstream Protestant denoms, modernism has crept in.

If any of you are ever in North Carolina, you would enjoy visiting Old Salem.
You know the moravians at Aldersgate were reading Luther's preface to Romans when Wesley's heart was strangely warmed.

[countrymousenc]

Yes I do recall the ELCA being in full communion with the moravians, and I do recall Luther saying that the Hussites should be encouraged to rejoin the church once reformed. This didn't work out, as we know, but I don't recall Luther talking much about the Hussites after the Lutheran Faith became legaly recognized as a Christian faith.

I do know what happened to the Hussites, but I don't recall thier political/religous association with the early Lutheran Church. I'm afraid I don't know anything about their early interactions with the Lutheran Church. But that's an interesting question: we can see who finds out first! ;) On your mark, get set, go!


It is my thought that the Hussites were basically strict Lutherans. Jan Hus taught the same things Luther taught.

Is there any difference between a Moravian and a Lutheran?

The Hussite protest and the Lutheran protest happened in different times and places. The Hussites predating the Lutherans, it wouldn't be accurate to refer to them as Lutherans, even though they probably shared many of the same ideals. It's important to remember that the Hussites had their roots in the Orthodox east, whereas the Lutherans came strictly from the Latin Church. The filioque being one of the dividing factors between east and west, perhaps researching the Moravian use of the Nicene creed would help determine how similar the two movements were.

As for modern differences, we have to remember that Lutherans now come in several "flavors;" the Missouri Synod, as far as I know, are the most conservative Lutherans, and still rely on the Augsburg Confession as their tradition. I'm not sure whether all other Lutherans do or not. Moravians have moved from their initial separatism to being rather "loosy-goosy" (to my way of thinking). While it is still one community of churches, there is a range of traditionalism to modernism and what you find can be different between any two congregations.

[countrymousenc]

You know the moravians at Aldersgate were reading Luther's preface to Romans when Wesley's heart was strangely warmed.

Now that you mention it, I vaguely remember reading or hearing that, but really hadn't thought much about it before. Thanks, Blackhawk. :)

[HunterJon]

As a Moravian I might be able to clear up a few things. The communion thing was not the only reason Hus split from the Catholic Church, he also did not belive in teaching in Latin because no one else understood it. Therefore he taught in Czech the language of the people.
Yes the Moravian Church has loosened up a bit, ironically in the Southern Province where one would think that traditional values may have been held on to longer. I am from Maryland and the church I go to is quite conservative in its beliefs and teachings.
Yes we are in full communion with the Lutheran Church so technically we could have a Lutheran Minister serve communion at our church and vice versa.