Does God take His Presence from us

[2Timothy2]

Does God ever remove His presence from us to test us? Perhaps to see if we will live for Him without the 'high' of feeling Him there. This was given as 'advice' to a struggling new Christian. I do not think this is Scriptural, but perhaps I'm missing something.

[Sword-In-Hand]

I probably don't have any true answer to this question, but if we look back in the Psalms, we can see that David often at times asked, Oh Lord how long as well as did other prophets. But then again Scripture says if you draw close to God He will draw close to you.

I don't think He removes His presence from us, but I do believe He tests us and when we are faced with trials our spritual eyes aren't as open as they are when we are on the mountain with God. We think when we are in the valley God isn't with us, but I think He's with us more then, but when we are going through a spritual low we kind of feel like He isn't. It's all about faith and seeing if we will have the same faith in God when it seems like He isn't around.

[Carrye]

I'm not a Baptist, but I don't think I'm speaking out of turn here. If God truly took His presence from us, we would die. It is Him who sustains our very being, our very existence.

But I do believe as Sword-In-Hand said, that He may seem to do so to purify us. It's not so much a test as in pass or fail (for He knows how we'll fare), but He uses the situation to make us better, to rid us of our impurities, our sin. I think this could be something that is universally experienced, but Mother Teresa always is forefront in my mind. She struggled with feeling or knowing God's presence for more than 50 years, but she kept running the race.

[BT]

Does God ever remove His presence from us to test us? Perhaps to see if we will live for Him without the 'high' of feeling Him there. This was given as 'advice' to a struggling new Christian. I do not think this is Scriptural, but perhaps I'm missing something.
Hey 2Tim. I do think that the advice is not scriptural. What that new Christian needs is solid discipleship. He/she needs to understand the nature and nurture of God. To understand that God is ever with us and His Spirit is forever within us (the indwelling Spirit). Too often people are saved by or chase after the 'emotional high'. Unfortunately this has little to do with the Christian life. I would suggest that you spend some time with this Babe in Christ and teach him/her about the path that we walk. Glory in the highs and lows..!

[GreenEyedLady]

Does God ever remove His presence from us to test us? Perhaps to see if we will live for Him without the 'high' of feeling Him there. This was given as 'advice' to a struggling new Christian. I do not think this is Scriptural, but perhaps I'm missing something.
I think that one can offend the holy spirit. Although we are sealed with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption, the holy spirit can be offended by our human ways. My husband decribes it as being on the moutain with God. You know, like Moses was. When you are on the moutain, God is so there..........but if you don't have your feet on the ground, the people below cannot see what you are doing. We cannot live on the moutain with the Lord forever, we must come down and attach our feet back on the ground.
GEL

[ZiSunka]

2 Chronicles 32:31 (Speaking about Hezekiah) However, regarding the ambassadors of the princes of Babylon, whom they sent to him to inquire about the wonder that was done in the land, God withdrew from him, in order to test him, that He might know all that was in his heart.

[BT]

2 Chronicles 32:31 (Speaking about Hezekiah) However, regarding the ambassadors of the princes of Babylon, whom they sent to him to inquire about the wonder that was done in the land, God withdrew from him, in order to test him, that He might know all that was in his heart.
Yes but there is a significant difference. Believers are sealed and the OT people were not. That's why we see David saying "Take not thy Holy Spirit from me.." because it was a possibility.. it isn't now.

Now there is also a difference between being "indwelt" (which we all are) and "filled" (which we all are not).

[ZiSunka]

Where does it say in the Bible that the Spirit cannot remove from us?

[BT]

Where does it say in the Bible that the Spirit cannot remove from us?
You are sealed... closed.. locked.. shut..

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Though we can grieve the Spirit who still remains in us... this is part of the difference between the indwelling and filling.

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

[ZiSunka]

You are sealed... closed.. locked.. shut..

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Though we can grieve the Spirit who still remains in us... this is part of the difference between the indwelling and filling.

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Seals can be broken, can't they? When I open a jar of pickles, I have to break the seal in order to get the lid off.

[BT]

Seals can be broken, can't they? When I open a jar of pickles, I have to break the seal in order to get the lid off.
Seals can be broken but not by you or I. It could hypothetically be broken by God but His word gives us an indication that this is not the case. If we look at the passage from Ephesians again..

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

We see that we are sealed unto the day of redemption... the end that is. The seal is never broken, the Spirit is sealed within us until the end. This verse also shows Eternal Security.

[The Lord is my banner]

Reading the reference to the seal of the Holy Spirit, I remembered learning that the Greek word used here describes the equivalent of an engagement ring.

So it's much more than just a simple seal on a jar or an envelope; it's a promise, a covenant, and God will not break it, therefore it is unbreakable.

(Hope I'm allowed to say that here - I'm not a Baptist, but thought this was important regardless of denomination.)

God bless, Susana

[BT]

Reading the reference to the seal of the Holy Spirit, I remembered learning that the Greek word used here describes the equivalent of an engagement ring.

So it's much more than just a simple seal on a jar or an envelope; it's a promise, a covenant, and God will not break it, therefore it is unbreakable.

(Hope I'm allowed to say that here - I'm not a Baptist, but thought this was important regardless of denomination.)

God bless, Susana
Yes you're allowed to say that here Susana. I had never heard this view before so I looked it up. Here's what I found..

In Greek the word for "seal" in this passage Ephesians 4:30 is syragizw (sphragizo) (say that five times fast!)

From Strongs:

sphragizo - to stamp (with a signet or private mark) for security or preservation (literally or figuratively); by implication, to keep secret, to attest:-- (set a, set to) seal up, stop (bolding added)

It comes from the word "sphragis" which means (From Strongs:)

a signet (as fencing in or protecting from misappropriation); by implication, the stamp impressed (as a mark of privacy, or genuineness), literally or figuratively:--seal

Now to get the real sense of "sphragizo" we look to other occurances of the word (in case we are in doubt as to the usage or meaning in this context). So we find sphragizo in (in the following verses I add "sphragizo" to show you were it is in the Greek)

Matthew 27:66 - So they went, and made the sepulchre sure, sealing (sphragizo) the stone, and setting a watch


John 3:33 - He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal (sphragizo) that God is true

John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed (sphragizo).

Romans 15:28 When therefore I have performed this, and have sealed (sphragizo) to them this fruit, I will come by you into Spain.

2 Corinthians 1:22 Who hath also sealed (sphragizo) us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

2 Corinthians 11:10 As the truth of Christ is in me, no man shall stop (sphragizo) me of this boasting in the regions of Achaia.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with (sphragizo) that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed (sphragizo) unto the day of redemption.

Revelation 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed (sphragizo) the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Revelation 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed (sphragizo): and there were sealed (sphragizo) an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Rev. 7:4-8 (The word is used in each instance where the tribes are sealed)

Then there are a couple more of the same.


So I think that the analogy is a pretty good one, but I wouldn't say that the word is the same as "engagement ring". The word for "espoused" means "to give a souvenir (engagement present), i.e. betroth:--espouse

So it's a different word. Yet still God will not break it, because the seal is "unto the day of redemption" that is what the Bible teaches.

Thanks for the post Susana