changing Gods mind.

[george]

can we change Gods mine once he has made a decision to do what he said he was going to do? :scratch:

[SenseiPiccolo]

hmmmm...
I know Moses changed his mind...
but im not sure about now days...
Ill look it up...

I believe If a person repents He will change His mind.

[ChristianPilot]

I'm a little confused.
If God knows everything, your future, past, and present, wouldn't he see what you're changing his mind with coming?

[Abbot Dandin]

I don't actually know if I could change his mind

[SenseiPiccolo]

Exod 32:13 13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever. And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people. (KJV)

[george]

Originally posted by SenseiPiccolo
Exod 32:13 13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever. And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people. (KJV)

thanks for your anwser :wave:

[george]

Originally posted by SenseiPiccolo
hmmmm...
I know Moses changed his mind...
but im not sure about now days...
Ill look it up...

I believe If a person repents He will change His mind.

thanks for your reply

[MizDoulos]

Welcome to the forum, George!

I have moved your thread to the Bible study area as it is more appropriate here. Thanks for our understanding.

Blessings,

Pat

[LuckyCharm]

I believe that God honors our prayers, actions and intentions as we fulfil (or not) our appointed roles in His perfect plan. Because we perceive events from a limited past-present-future perspective, where causes precede effects, it appears to us that we are "changing God's mind" by what we do or do not do. But God is eternal, outside of time, and He sees everything from above. What I am doing tomorrow or next week or next year, I cannot see, but God is already there with me as He walks beside me on the trail that I have blazed by my own free choices.

Does this make sense? :idea:

[OntheRock]

Hi all,

There's also the account of Abraham reasoning with God over the destruction of Sodom and Gamorah. It can be speculated that God changes his mind, that he would not have saved Lot if Abraham didn't speak up.

Personaly, I have experienced what I have thought was God changing his mind in my life.

[Mandy]

I don't think it is so much as changing God's mind as it is preventing a consequence or something. The Bible says that God doesn't change.

[george]

Originally posted by LuckyCharm
I believe that God honors our prayers, actions and intentions as we fulfil (or not) our appointed roles in His perfect plan. Because we perceive events from a limited past-present-future perspective, where causes precede effects, it appears to us that we are "changing God's mind" by what we do or do not do. But God is eternal, outside of time, and He sees everything from above. What I am doing tomorrow or next week or next year, I cannot see, but God is already there with me as He walks beside me on the trail that I have blazed by my own free choices.

Does this make sense? :idea:

thanks for your response. :D

[SenseiPiccolo]

the Key to changeing God's mind i believe is in true heart felt repentance...
:pray:

[ljmandtina]

I don't believe in predestination. God may not be constrained by space and time, but He didn't pick out who would be saved and who wouldn't.

We are also told that we are created in His image. We have free will; so does God. We can change our minds, angels changed their's...why can't God change His? He did it in the Old Testament several times. He spared Lot when He destroyed Sodom; He spared Noah from the flood; He spared Adam and Eve even though He could have destroyed them along with Satan and this world as we know it would never have existed.

We need to stop thinking of God in modern terms. Modern thought is that everything must be able to fit into certain boxes; everything can be known with enough knowledge. God has been viewed differently in every age. We are now in the postmodern worldview. There will no doubt be another way of thinking after postmodernism. None of man's ways of knowing God have been totally correct; and we may not even know His mind in Heaven - because we're always going to be the Creation and He's the Creator.

God bless.

[george]

Originally posted by ljmandtina
I don't believe in predestination. God may not be constrained by space and time, but He didn't pick out who would be saved and who wouldn't.

We are also told that we are created in His image. We have free will; so does God. We can change our minds, angels changed their's...why can't God change His? He did it in the Old Testament several times. He spared Lot when He destroyed Sodom; He spared Noah from the flood; He spared Adam and Eve even though He could have destroyed them along with Satan and this world as we know it would never have existed.

We need to stop thinking of God in modern terms. Modern thought is that everything must be able to fit into certain boxes; everything can be known with enough knowledge. God has been viewed differently in every age. We are now in the postmodern worldview. There will no doubt be another way of thinking after postmodernism. None of man's ways of knowing God have been totally correct; and we may not even know His mind in Heaven - because we're always going to be the Creation and He's the Creator.

God bless.

thanks for your anwser :wave:

[fablesarereal]

Changing the mind of God is an anthropomorphism that God inspired not to be technically accurate but so that man would understand God in a way that was practical and not be more perplexed at His nature than is often the case due to our limited capacity of understanding and physical constraints i.e. by nature anger is an emotion that requires both an element of surprise and time to show external anger by human definition and God is surprised by nothing and has no begining nor end, perhaps God's placement of judgement is expressed by the human emotion anger due to misunderstanding the improbability of a diety in the position he was in at least having the same reactions... again see what I mean. God is Sovereign, All knowing and eternal, meaning that all his decisions were made during the "six days" of creation which is also an anthropomorphism(day as a thousand years[not literal merely a simile]). On the "seventh day" he rested from all his creation God has no need to sleep if he did and wanted a few more hours he could keep the sun in the same place a few more hours(oh wait it is)(and even if it weren't there's the old "Who are you sun to tell God when to get up!""Oh sorry my bad"[see what I mean]). In other words it is us who see the change in the direction of life and not God who changes his mind. God is Immutable and not only cannot change has no need to due to the fact that he is on a 5th plane of existance outside of time and space that He set in place for this universe's context to use a writing term. If God's decisions were influenced by us then God would have to be constantly changing his plans to suit the needs of those making petitions and those operating outside of how things are meant to be. But as it is there is a set begining to the universe we know and a set end. Nothing we say or do changes the way things are supposed to turn out, but we are allowed to be instruments that carry out the will of God. If we are chosen to be one influenced to be drawn to God we are, and one to follow a sinful nature if we are not so drawn John 6:44 Romans 9. Our prayers are more in my opinion for the strengthening of our faith and to increase our dependance on the Creator. If we are living according to the way He leads us, our prayers are according to His will, and therefore get answered the way we want them to be answered, because our desires are in accordance with His desires, and those desires are there because God has placed them there within us as many of the psalms and other books indicate. If we are not in accordance with the way God has for our lives and are blinded by the old man, God still wins out and things go according to his plan, which also serves to bring a child of God back to God. As to "the begining" and "the end" much of what we know is also an anthropomorphism and for all we know could very well be quite different than anything we could imagine, no I'm sure of it. For all we know, due to the fact of the anthropomorphism of the universe having to be in the "mind" of God at some point in time(or rather before it) quite possibly from His viewpoint the universe could have always existed in one form or another, if not this one to stretch the anthropomorphism into allegory which isn't too far fetched seeing God is refered to as the Author and Finisher of our faith.

[Caedmon]

First of all, I'd just like to say that fablesarereal's post read like an episode of Speed Racer... LOL! :D
Spacing would really be appreciated. Thanks!
Nevertheless, it was very informative.

God does not change His mind. All things have been written, and God ALWAYS carries out what He desires. Like fablesarereal said, God doesn't have his mind changed and go back to the blueprints and rewrite everything all the way from one human's action down to the end of time over and over again. God has set everything in the universe as He would have it; there is no other explanation. He knows everything that will ever happen because He has created all things. He doesn't just "allow" things to happen that He doesn't want. In order for things to come out EXACTLY as God wishes, He MUST be in control of everything in the universe. Nothing occurs outside of the Sovereign Will of God.

[LuckyCharm]

HumbleJoe, you said: He doesn't just "allow" things to happen that He doesn't want. In order for things to come out EXACTLY as God wishes, He MUST be in control of everything in the universe. Nothing occurs outside of the Sovereign Will of God.

Have you read my thread, "Fiancé in love with another woman"? How would you explain this to a woman whose beloved has developed a wandering eye? Does God actually cause something like this to happen?

Peace,

Cheryl

[ZiSunka]

Originally posted by george
can we change Gods mine once he has made a decision to do what he said he was going to do? :scratch:

You mean like in the entire book of Jonah? Isn't that a book about God changing his mind in response to man's actions?

Or like how Abraham changed God's mind about destroying Sodom? Didn't he bargain with God, asking Him not to destroy the city if there were even 10 righteous people in it?

Or like Hannah changed God's mind about not letting her have a baby?

And so on...

[Caedmon]

LuckyCharm, I just read it, and I can appreciate the difficulty of that situation. God does not sin or tempt, yet He wills that things happen in a certain way. But you can't say that someone is not responsible for an action. There is a duality of responsibility that Paul discusses in Romans 9. He says that God controls everything that happens and works it to His glory. Man sins, and man is held accountable for that, but at the same time, God CAN cause anything to happen. God does not cause sin in that He commits it, but rather that He produces situations in line with His perfect will.

The way that I would explain it to the woman is that no matter what happens, God is controlling the situation; He always has something in mind for her. A lot of people ask why bad things happen. Bad things happen because God has a plan, infinitely beyond our feeble human understanding. I would also recommend Romans 9. Paul has a lot of good things to say about how God's Sovereignty works. And above all, the thing to do is just trust in Jesus. I know that sounds really trite sometimes, but He's the best thing Christians have! Without Him, we have no Life. I hope this helps. :)

[soulsisterclaire]

fablesarereal - that was a very eloquent post, I could not stop reading it...very informative and insightful! Thanks for posting... :)

[iamhaack]

LuckyCharm

Hosea 4:1-5:15

Read the story of Hosea and Gomer. Interesting instructions from God, but it was for a greater purpose!

We always need to remember God sees the big picture; we often (most of the time!) do not.

[LuckyCharm]

HumbleJoe: Romans 9 is a good one. Also, I think of Isaiah 10:5 in connection with human responsibility vs. God's sovereignty, where He pronounces woes on Assyria (Babylon) for the very actions by which He used them as the "rod of [His] anger" against Israel. But it's a difficult concept to grasp. You say (and Scripture confirms) that God does not lead us into sin or tempt us. But it is hard to comprehend this mystery, while saying at the same time that God is in perfect control of everything, even our hearts and minds, and yet we see sin running rampant all around us...

iamhaack: I am familiar with the story of Hosea and Gomer, but I don't believe Hosea's calling is the calling of every believer. Even Jesus grants the exception of "sexual immorality" to His denouncement of divorce. And, while it's a beautiful love story, it still doesn't answer the question of whether God causes infidelity, or whether it's a consequence of our own weakness, selfishness, and sinfulness.

~~Cheryl

[ljmandtina]

LuckyCharm - my heart goes out to you because this has happened to me; except it was my wife at the time.

I think what we have to realize is that that person who has hurt us has the same 'right' to disobey or dishonor God as we do. By exercising our rights to sin or not to sin, we impose a consequence on the lives of other people. God must allow us this right because He chose to create us this way. It was not His will that you were hurt by your fiance's actions; but what He is looking for from you is how you choose to respond to being treated as you have been. As hard as it is, you (and I) have to be able to say to God: "OK Father, this person you brought into my life (if we really conferred with Him first) has chosen someone else. I don't know why you wanted this to happen, but it's your problem now. Help me accept what I cannot change and show me your will for my life now."

The relationship has to be turned over to God, just as our possessions, our money, our jobs, our kids must be surrendered to Him. It's all His. We can only use what He has provided us with. Our responsibility is to be a faithful steward of His blessings. Even in something as intangible as a relationship, we must be faithful not only to the person God has brought into our lives, but also faithful to God by working hard and building on to what He has blessed us with. He expects a return on His blessings; in this case a closer relationship where two become stronger and more efficient than one.

In my case(s), I did not consult God before wooing and marrying three women. These were not the mate He had chosen for me, the person that He knew would complete me and I her. As a result of doing it my way instead of waiting on God, I've divorced three women, lost custody of five children, created crushing debt, and have been unhappy for many, many years.

A year ago, God brought the right woman into my life. He blessed me and has given me another chance. I am happy, but there is a problem. She lives over 2800 miles from me. My responsibility is to take what He has provided and build a relationship that will honor God by relying upon Him to make me a Godly husband and father. I'm even having to rely upon Him to bring us together so I can be a blessing to my fiance and our children.

I thought that I was being punished when my marriages failed. What may have happened is that my divorces were blessings in disguise. Sure they have cost me emotionally and financially, but the joy I have knowing that this is the right woman will far outweigh the pain of the past. Perhaps your fiance was not God's choice for you and He allowed this to happen so that the real mate can come into your life.

As far as God changing His mind. I believe that He has done so in the past and He continues to do so. He is not a static, inflexible God and one has nothing to do with His infallibility. God knows who will and who will not accept His offer of salvation, but that doesn't mean that He's withdrawn it from those who won't take Him up on it. We were created in His image and we can change our minds. Look at it this way: when we're born, God has already determined that the sin seed in us keeps us apart from Him. However, when we meet Christ and accept Him as our Lord and Savior, God no longer considers us as lost, but as redeemed. He looks at us as being faultless where before we made a decision for Christ we were stained. He's not pretending we're His children, He's changing His mind about it.

[LuckyCharm]

Thank you for your reply, "ljmandtina"

But have we answered the question of whether God is in contol of everything, or not?

If He is, then He caused my friend's betrayal, n'est-ce pas?

~~Cheryl

[ljmandtina]

LuckyCharm, if I followed your logic, I would surmise that God causes us to sin. There's nothing in scriptures that supports this (other than His hardening our hearts once we've rejected Him over and over). Still, that doesn't equate to His causing us to sin. For that matter, if He did indeed cause your friend's betrayal, it was for a greater purpose; just as Judas' betrayal was necessary. Perhaps your relationship was not within His will. However, I don't believe that God caused the betrayal. He might have prevented it, but God isn't going to step in every time we sin or make mistakes. That's why we are different from animals. We have the ability to know right from wrong and the freedom to act on it. We have to take responsibility for ourselves; after all, when we stand before Him to give an account, He's not going to be interested in us shifting the blame for our disobedience to someone else. I don't believe that any of us can truthfully say that we haven't done something we wanted to do at the expense of someone else. We have all hurt someone, even as children when we'd get mad at our parents for saying no. He didn't stop us when we sinned, why stop our spouses or fiances or friends from doing what they do? None of us are guiltless and we can not blame God for every bad thing that happens to us or to this world.

God bless