The Message Translation

[Im_A]

just kind of curious what people think of the Message Translation.

i honestly love it. we think about the King James version, and I am not trying to start up some debate here, but it was written in the language at the time. i believe it is a good version myself. with The Message Translation, i like it because it is more with modern day language. plus for me it let's you look at scriptures from another angle, because we can relate more with the wording and usage.

just curious of other's opinion of this translation.

[McCravey]

just kind of curious what people think of the Message Translation.

i honestly love it. we think about the King James version, and I am not trying to start up some debate here, but it was written in the language at the time. i believe it is a good version myself. with The Message Translation, i like it because it is more with modern day language. plus for me it let's you look at scriptures from another angle, because we can relate more with the wording and usage.

just curious of other's opinion of this translation.

I'm not familiar with the Message Translation, can you elaborate?

[Im_A]

I'm not familiar with the Message Translation, can you elaborate?I will give some examples

Matthew 7:6 (NIV)
"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet and then turn and tear you to pieces."

Matthew 7:6 (Message)
"Don't be flip with the sacred. Banter and silliness give no honor to God. Don't reduce holy mysteries to slogans. In trying to be relevant, you're only being cute and inviting sacrilege.

Matthew 7:1,2 (NIV)
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

Matthew 7:1,2 (Message)
"Don't pick on people, jump on their failures, criticize their faults-unless of course, you want the same treatment. That critical spirit has a way of boomeranging."

Those are just a few examples of differences between the two translations. Here is the brief overview/full excerpt on the back of the Bible.

Read. Think. Pray. Live
A log of people think that the Bbiel originally sounded like something from the MIddle Ages, but it was written in the language of the streets-the language of fishermen, shopkeepers, and other regular people. Author Eugene Peterson watned to get the Bible back to that kind of everyday, common language that all of us use when we're not trying to sound religious.

With that in mind, the Message isn't about religion. It's about making God's Word easier to read. So fir things first-read it. Then think deeply about it, never being afraid to ask Why or How come. All the while, pray that God's message to you will soak in. And then, live it out.

The concepts in the Bbile are complicated, no matter what version of it you have. But don't be discouraged-there's real power in these pages. The Remix features ver-numbered paraghs to help you study and follow the test. The more time you spend in The Mesage, the more you'll be able to read, think, pray, and live in the truth.

Eugene H. Peterson is a pastor, scholar, writer, and poet. He spent ten years working on the Message-a paraphrase of the Bible-translating it from the original Greek and Hebrew. Eugene lives with his wife, Jan, in Montana. They have three children and six grandchildren.

hopefully that helps some :)

[Treasure the Questions]

Sometimes I find Peterson puts something in such a way that it makes it fresh and gives me deeper insights, but the danger with any paraphrase is that the author elaborates one meaning and ambiguities and alternative meanings are lost.

Sometimes I disagree with his translation, but I think it's always a useful exercise to be helped to look at the Bible with fresh eyes, as long as we keep a critical mind.

Karin

[nyj]

Sometimes a paraphrase (ie: dynamic equivalence or "thought for thought") translation is very good to read, as a supplement, to reading a word for word (formal equivalence) translation. I find that they approach things from a slightly different angle which can be good, especially for reflective purposes. Remember, when you rely solely on a dynamic equivalence, especially one that has been done by a single person (or a small select group) you are inheriting their own particular individual and/or denominational biases.

For example, I enjoy reading both the NAB or RSV (formal equivalence) alongside my Jerusalem (dynamic equivalence) Bible. I find that they do a very good complementing one another and it heightens my Bible study experience.

The best Bible, is the one that is being read.

[Im_A]

i agree with every point mentioned here.

i like it because of relation i can make to our own language, as like i am talking about God to someone on the streets, in mine and their own language, instead of a formal language.

at the same time, it is very beautiful to hear the Word of God put into the beautiful language of the King James and New King James. I like the NIV because again it is easier reading, and another attempt to put it like i would talk to people on the streets. i like the NRSV (if i am correct that is the Catholic Bible translation) because again it is a mix of the Old and New Language, and plus, i am not Catholic, but i want to read more of the books that through the Reformation somehow and some reason got tooken out, when it was used as the standard version of "God's Word" for so long before that.

i agree with the dangers of using such a densed translation (if you want to call it that).

in the end for myself, i am not going to come to conclusion to a certain translation, because in the end, it shows humanities attempt at knowing God and Jesus better, and all of the translations have fruit in them, because it is talking about God's Divine Word.

[PaladinValer]

The Message "translation" isn't a translation but a paraphrase. Paraphrases are very unreliable because they force the "translators" to interpret the passages, making them extremely biased.

Dynamic Equivalences like the NIV also have this problem on occassion, although it usually isn't this bad. And even formal equivalences can, with the use of italicized words attempt to give their personal interpretations. The NASB may be the most literal word-for-word translation, but it has more than its share of "self-interpretations" than I prefer.

All translations, of course, will have their biases. The reason why I personally use the RSV and NRSV is because they are ecumenical and thus the biases are limited.

If you wish to use The Message, be sure to know the biases and theology of the translators and also to get a more formal equivalence translation.

Edit: The NRSV is not a Vatican Catholic translation but an ecumenical translation. The Vatican Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, the Anglican Church, the United Methodist Church, the ELCA, the Presbyterian Church USA, and others (including one Jew) took a part in its conception and translation.

[Reader Nilus]

Although Orthodox partook in the translating of the NRSV, it is prohibited from being read officially in Orthodox Churches.
Jeff the Finn

[julian the apostate]

i like the message as well

for some reason i dont get as caught up in thinking,, what did paul mean by this? what did christ mean by this?, when i use the message

i seem to read it with a more humble heart - which is unusual for me

[Lioness816]

I like both versions. Sometimes I get confused with the wording in the King James version and need "modern" clarification
.

[Adammi]

just kind of curious what people think of the Message Translation.

i honestly love it. we think about the King James version, and I am not trying to start up some debate here, but it was written in the language at the time. i believe it is a good version myself. with The Message Translation, i like it because it is more with modern day language. plus for me it let's you look at scriptures from another angle, because we can relate more with the wording and usage.

just curious of other's opinion of this translation.I love it, though it is a better supplement than a closely trusted version.

[seebs]

My concern is, as noted above, that a paraphrase assumes that you understood the original passage... Often a dangerous gamble!

[CaDan]

My concern is, as noted above, that a paraphrase assumes that you understood the original passage... Often a dangerous gamble!

I view these sorts of translations as very detailed commentary. Not a bad thing at all, but one must keep in mind that they are a commentary.

C'mon, Greek isn't really THAT hard!

[Origen]

The Message is a beautiful rendering.

In its simplicity it achieves poetry.

[Iosias]

I will give some examples

Matthew 7:6 (NIV)
"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet and then turn and tear you to pieces."

Matthew 7:6 (Message)
"Don't be flip with the sacred. Banter and silliness give no honor to God. Don't reduce holy mysteries to slogans. In trying to be relevant, you're only being cute and inviting sacrilege.
I think I will stick with "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you" and I encourage you to do the same.

[artybloke]

AV1611 - Are you a Liberal Christian suddenly? Miracles never cease...

[Iosias]

AV1611 - Are you a Liberal Christian suddenly?
Not a chance :D

[Im_A]

I think I will stick with "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you" and I encourage you to do the same.
i will go with both. i like them both. like i said earlier. i like all the translations of God, no matter what anyone says. my encouragement is, you do whatever you want to do :)

the only thing i like about The Message is at the same time of pinpointing out salvation and what non-Christians need to do, verses like above, kind of shows other areas to where that verses reaches beyond just the non-Christian aspect of it. i think it does that because it is put in the street language, just like the King James Version was. but again, i am in no place to judge which translation is right, i do not care to either. that is between you and God, and as for me, I like all the translations, because it is all translation, paraphrases of God's Holy Word.

[Im_A]

My concern is, as noted above, that a paraphrase assumes that you understood the original passage... Often a dangerous gamble!
assumptions turns all into a donkey, hehe. j/k

your right. that is a dangerous gamble, but a parphrased translation of the other set translations, to me is just showing that we have sets of normally used versions of scripture, and we are paraphrasing off of that, doesn't mean we understand the whole thing to the last detail.

that is how i feel though. :)

[artybloke]

Not a chance :D

Then what are you doing on the Liberal Churches forum?

[PaladinValer]

He's welcome to fellowship, don't forget. But if he tries (or anyone else for that matter) to argue or convince...

[Iosias]

Then what are you doing on the Liberal Churches forum?
Talking to my 'liberal' brothers and sisters in Christ...:doh:

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

... and telling us where we're wrong. No, I don't think you should be doing this here, unless you think it also appropriate that liberals go on to the fundamentalist forum and argue against the KJV?

[CaDan]

... and telling us where we're wrong. No, I don't think you should be doing this here, unless you think it also appropriate that liberals go on to the fundamentalist forum and argue against the KJV?

But I like the KJV and by now y'all have to know I'm Liberal Trouble with a capital L and a capital T! Sure, it's based on the Textus Receptus and not on other manuscripts and sure the language is early modern english, but it is a pretty good translation of the TR and early modern english isn't THAT hard once you get into the "swing" of it.

What I would really like is a printed Bible without little verse numbers. The more I read, the more irritated I get with how they interrupt the flow of the writing.

[PaladinValer]

Originally, Bibles were without verses and chapters designated

[Iosias]

Originally, Bibles were without verses and chapters designated
I always thought it was the other way around :scratch:

[Reader Nilus]

That is one of the strengths of the New English Bible, verse numbers do not appear in the text but in the margins.
Jeff the Finn

[Reader Nilus]

Then what are you doing on the Liberal Churches forum?I think he feels we are in need of the good word of the KJV only religion.
Jeff the Finn

[seebs]

What I would really like is a printed Bible without little verse numbers. The more I read, the more irritated I get with how they interrupt the flow of the writing.

1 What are you talking about? 2 The numbers are a part of the flow of the text; 3 in fact, I don't think you'd notice them at all if 4 English were normally written this way, although 5 it'd be nice if they at least kept to full sentences normally.

[GreenPartyVoter]

I JUST got into a debate with my conservative bro-in-law about the validity of the Message. He thinks it's blasphemous, of course. Good thing I didn't tell him about "Good as New" *l*

There are lots of excellent Bibles out there which I feel are more accessible and acceptable for liberals: (links to some in the general Christian and Religious resources section) http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/liberalchristians.htm

[praying]

just kind of curious what people think of the Message Translation.

i honestly love it. we think about the King James version, and I am not trying to start up some debate here, but it was written in the language at the time. i believe it is a good version myself. with The Message Translation, i like it because it is more with modern day language. plus for me it let's you look at scriptures from another angle, because we can relate more with the wording and usage.

just curious of other's opinion of this translation.

I like Eugene Peerson. I don't have The Message but I do have another devotional book Living the Message which of course uses The Message

[CaDan]

That is one of the strengths of the New English Bible, verse numbers do not appear in the text but in the margins.
Jeff the Finn

Woot! I got a nice hardcover NEB at the used bookstore for ten bucks! It still has the dust jacket.

Nice big print and verse numbers in the margins! Romans is actually readable now.

I wish Zondervan and Thomas Nelson would do the same with their translations.

[Reader Nilus]

Woot! I got a nice hardcover NEB at the used bookstore for ten bucks! It still has the dust jacket.

Nice big print and verse numbers in the margins! Romans is actually readable now.

I wish Zondervan and Thomas Nelson would do the same with their translations.Yes, you are fortunate as they can be hard to find now. It was the translation committee itself for the New English Bible that kept the verse numbers out of the text. It reads like a regular book. And some frosting on the cake, the NEB is not good to use as a proof text Bible, as you do not know where one verse ends and another begins. So you are forced to quote it in context.
Jeff the Finn

[AveMaria]

While I'm quite partial to the NKJ, NKJ, and the JB (JB would be my favorite, actually!), a quick peek on my bookshelf a few weeks ago revealed that I also have the NIV, NRSV, NASB, ESV, and a few others, including a copy of 'The Message' - :scratch: Where the heck did that come from? I don't remember buying it! Did someone leave it at my house after a Bible study, or is it a long-forgotten Christmas gift? Most puzzling!

Out of curiosity, I did pick it up and skim through a bit, and while I don't think I'll personally use it much, I do think that some of my unchurched friends, who have fallen away from Christianity for various reasons, would be much more inclined to read 'The Message' than the good ol' KJV.

I'm also anxious to flip through a copy of 'As Good As New'. So far, I've only seen a few select verses mentioned online. Anyone actually read it?

[Cordelia]

I really don't like paraphrases. All that bias makes me feel...vulnerable :P It's not a bad idea, though, if it might encourage people to read translations.

[Rising Tree]

I will give some examples

Matthew 7:6 (NIV)
"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet and then turn and tear you to pieces."

Matthew 7:6 (Message)
"Don't be flip with the sacred. Banter and silliness give no honor to God. Don't reduce holy mysteries to slogans. In trying to be relevant, you're only being cute and inviting sacrilege.

Matthew 7:1,2 (NIV)
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

Matthew 7:1,2 (Message)
"Don't pick on people, jump on their failures, criticize their faults-unless of course, you want the same treatment. That critical spirit has a way of boomeranging."

Those are just a few examples of differences between the two translations. Here is the brief overview/full excerpt on the back of the Bible.

Read. Think. Pray. Live
A log of people think that the Bbiel originally sounded like something from the MIddle Ages, but it was written in the language of the streets-the language of fishermen, shopkeepers, and other regular people. Author Eugene Peterson watned to get the Bible back to that kind of everyday, common language that all of us use when we're not trying to sound religious.

With that in mind, the Message isn't about religion. It's about making God's Word easier to read. So fir things first-read it. Then think deeply about it, never being afraid to ask Why or How come. All the while, pray that God's message to you will soak in. And then, live it out.

The concepts in the Bbile are complicated, no matter what version of it you have. But don't be discouraged-there's real power in these pages. The Remix features ver-numbered paraghs to help you study and follow the test. The more time you spend in The Mesage, the more you'll be able to read, think, pray, and live in the truth.

Eugene H. Peterson is a pastor, scholar, writer, and poet. He spent ten years working on the Message-a paraphrase of the Bible-translating it from the original Greek and Hebrew. Eugene lives with his wife, Jan, in Montana. They have three children and six grandchildren.

hopefully that helps some :)Judging by what I've heard, and by what I read in those threads, the Message seems much more of my style. In fact, I'll probably get it the next time I purchase a Bible. I would much rather focus on sweeping themes and ideas than brute facts and topics, something I think the Message does quite nicely.

[PaladinGirl]

Well, I was skeptical at first of The Message Bible because my Mom wasn't sure she liked it very well. However, I had never read any of it until now. I went to Bible Gateway and read some excerpts and I must say, it appears to be the most clear Bible version I have ever seen in my entire life. It gets the message across without being too preachy or religious sounding. Also, it just seemed to get the message across to me in a much clearer way than any other Bible version has ever done. I think I'll be buying this Bible as soon as I get the money! :D :thumbsup:

[plmarquette]

we all require some " bench-mark version " : douay-rheimes ; King James ; New American or Revised Standard ; etc. to learn from .

the amplified or the message approximates the word for word tranlation from hebrew and greek to english [ our language does not have words that coincide with original words in many cases ] to covey meaning , spirit of , context of the passage .

read from the bench mark version first , expound from the amplified

[Im_A]

we all require some " bench-mark version " : douay-rheimes ; King James ; New American or Revised Standard ; etc. to learn from .

the amplified or the message approximates the word for word tranlation from hebrew and greek to english [ our language does not have words that coincide with original words in many cases ] to covey meaning , spirit of , context of the passage .

read from the bench mark version first , expound from the amplified
that's why i like all of the versions. it is beautiful to see mankind's attempts at understanding the Bible. i don't see any of the versions being better than one of the other for one fact; anyone can find Jesus in all of them, so i can't complain about any of them. plus, i don't feel like getting into translation arguments, because it seems redundant.

[Rising Tree]

Well, I was skeptical at first of The Message Bible because my Mom wasn't sure she liked it very well. However, I had never read any of it until now. I went to Bible Gateway and read some excerpts and I must say, it appears to be the most clear Bible version I have ever seen in my entire life. It gets the message across without being too preachy or religious sounding. Also, it just seemed to get the message across to me in a much clearer way than any other Bible version has ever done. I think I'll be buying this Bible as soon as I get the money! :D :thumbsup:Sweet! :)

[traingosorry]

I took a paperback copy of the Message New Testament with me backpacking last summer. I was hoping that I would be able to engage my friend who was not christian at the time to read with me ( no luck there) but it was clear and to the point with it's paraphrases.
Jesus spoke to ordinary people in his time...fishermen, laymen, tax collectors. He didn't use elaborate language...(in fact it was so simple that it evaded some people! )

While I love the Message.... I still like to use the other translations to dig deeper into its meaning. Sometimes reading scripture in Greek or Hebrew, in its original language can reveal a deeper meaning that any other bible translation may have missed.

I think the Message is a good tool....some people won't go near a bible for fear they won't understand...thee and thou can be pretty daunting especially if they aren't exactly scholarly! And it's condensed...so it makes it enjoyable.

my 2cents

[Kaonashi]

Is the New English Bible the same thing as the World English Bible?

[Reader Nilus]

Is the New English Bible the same thing as the World English Bible?No, it is not the same.
Reader Nilus

[Kaonashi]

Ok, trying to figure out what Bibles to download onE-Sword. I can't get any of the ones you have to pay for yet.

[NacDan]

I used to think of "The Message" as a 'kiddie Bible'. Written for children or at the very least, written for non-believers. But I've changed my attitude about it recently. My pastor, who is a life long KJV guy, started using passages from "The Message" for his "Snapshots of the Savior" series a month or so back. He'd read from "The Message" and I'd follow along in my revised american standard version. I figure if a KJV guy can use it...can't be ALL bad!

Just for reading, I'd recommend "The Message"; however, for study, I'd go somewhere else.

NacDan

[Im_A]

I took a paperback copy of the Message New Testament with me backpacking last summer. I was hoping that I would be able to engage my friend who was not christian at the time to read with me ( no luck there) but it was clear and to the point with it's paraphrases.
Jesus spoke to ordinary people in his time...fishermen, laymen, tax collectors. He didn't use elaborate language...(in fact it was so simple that it evaded some people! )

While I love the Message.... I still like to use the other translations to dig deeper into its meaning. Sometimes reading scripture in Greek or Hebrew, in its original language can reveal a deeper meaning that any other bible translation may have missed.

I think the Message is a good tool....some people won't go near a bible for fear they won't understand...thee and thou can be pretty daunting especially if they aren't exactly scholarly! And it's condensed...so it makes it enjoyable.

my 2cents
hey you! :) glad to see you make your way over here :)

i think with reading the translations of scripture, it depends on the person to be able to dictate how deep they can read into it. i guess that's why, for my deep study, i am open to all the translations. i like KJV. it's an old version, it's beautifully written and all of the other positive things about it are great too. and i'm sure i could make the list longer with other versions. the only thing i have with the KJV is the language. it may be beautiful, but i don't relate to some of the language. i mean for me, reading the KJV can be a deep study of the Word, and it can be just like reading a novel. it's like reading something, and it's like, that's really cool, and then i missed the whole meaning, but then again, the KJV has been a very frutiful translation for me too. the same goes with all the translations, which is why i'm open to all of the translations.

my thing for really liking The Message is, the fact that it is written in the language that we talk in these modern times. from what i gather about the author is he took extensive time, to translate the scripture from the original manuscripts. so with that in mind, i believe we can be more prepared to not let our modern language take the power out of the scriptures. i mean for some, the simplistic reading is dull. i have read some modern translations, that dare i say, didn't intrigue to me read that translation any further. with The Message, using almost exactly how i would talk to people, it refreshes scripture in my mind. and since it is translated from the original manuscripts, i don't believe we aren't paraphrasing scripture, we are just speaking our own language with the word of God. i think we need to be refreshened as Christians, because at times, it is too easy to just say, "The Bible is God's Holy Word" when we've believed it for a long time. plus, i believe the Bible mainly was written for the non-believers. how else are they and we going to be in a relationship with God? that is also another reason why i like all the translations of scripture for deep study, and just not one specific one, because we are reading the Word of God, in different variation of languages.

[wgjones3]

You can download The Message as an add-on to the e-sword software package at http://www.e-sword.net

Just thought I'd mention it.

My leatherbound copy of the Message doesn't get very frequent use because the verses aren't enumerated and it's hard for me to find my way around with the numbers. I understand why they're not there, but the Message on eSword gets a lot of use simply because of the verse numbers. I like it. I particularly like taking scriptures in parallel between the KJV, God's Word version, the Message, and the New Living Translation. For me, it's the best way to get the most meaning out of God's Word.