Baptist Sacraments and Ministers

[benedictine]

Hi! My questions regard the two Sacraments recognized by Baptist/Anabaptist churches, Communion(Lord's Supper?) and Baptism.

1-Is an ordained minister required to perform a baptism?
1a- In the even tthat a non-baptized person was dying, and there was no possibility that a minister could baptize them, would a non-ordained person be allowed to confer the sacrament?

2-How do Baptists/Anabaptists regard the Lord's Supper? Is an ordained minister required for this sacrament?

Thanks!

[BT]

Sacrament? Ack!

The word you're looking for is ordinance.

1. No, ordination is not necessary to perform a baptism.
1 a. Baptism is not necessary for salvation, so there is no reason to baptize a dying person.

2. No, ordination is not necessary to perform the Lord's supper. It is a remembrance not a magic spell that transforms a cracker into flesh.

Yer welcome

[ZiSunka]

In Anabaptist churches, many pastors are not "ordained" in the ceremonial sense, and any believer can baptize another believer. I was baptized in this way. My friend and neighbor, not a pastor, baptized me, and it is considered just as valid as if a pastor did it.

If a non-baptized person is dying, they could only be baptized if they made a confession of faith in Christ as savior, and then they could be baptized by any believer, but baptism is not necessary for salvation, so it wouldn't be the end of the world if the person couldn't be baptized at all.

The Lord's table can be administered by any believer, but in many churches, it is administered by male elders out of tradition, but any believer can give or partake of communion without a minister being present.

See, we believe that we are all ministers, and that the sacriments are symbols of our submission to God, not something which confers grace in and of itself.

[ZiSunka]

Sacrament? Ack!

It is a remembrance not a magic spell that transforms a cracker into flesh.

Yer welcome
Please forgive BT. He's upfront about being a fanatic.

[Melly Monster]

In my church You have to be Ordinaned to baptiz someone. We also believe a person is suppose to be Ordinaed to marry someone, to be a pastor, and last but not lease but to do a funneral services. In my Church we have I believe 3 Ordinaed men.

Melissa

[LuxPerpetua]

In the SBC church that I grew up in, only ordained ministers could baptize and administer communion. I didn't know that that practice varied. :confused: I do know that Baptists do not see baptism and communion as Sacraments but rather as "acts of obedience." In that light, it would seem fine for any member of the church body to administer these rites. However, at least where I was from in the south, only pastors were allowed to do them.

[moeowo]

As some have already mentioned we don't have sacraments below is from the Bapist Faith and Message describing the Southern Baptist views on this and the scriptures to back it up.

VII. Baptism and the Lord's Supper
Christian baptism is the immersion of a believer in water in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It is an act of obedience symbolizing the believer's faith in a crucified, buried, and risen Saviour, the believer's death to sin, the burial of the old life, and the resurrection to walk in newness of life in Christ Jesus. It is a testimony to his faith in the final resurrection of the dead. Being a church ordinance, it is prerequisite to the privileges of church membership and to the Lord's Supper.

The Lord's Supper is a symbolic act of obedience whereby members of the church, through partaking of the bread and the fruit of the vine, memorialize the death of the Redeemer and anticipate His second coming.

Matthew 3:13-17; 26:26-30; 28:19-20; Mark 1:9-11; 14:22-26; Luke 3:21-22; 22:19-20; John 3:23; Acts 2:41-42; 8:35-39; 16:30-33; 20:7; Romans 6:3-5; 1 Corinthians 10:16,21; 11:23-29; Colossians 2:12.

[Carrye]

not a magic spell that transforms a cracker into flesh.
No magic spells, BT. Did you know that's where "hocus pocus" comes from - making fun of the Latin words of consecration?

[BT]

The quote was intended to differentiate between a "sacrament" and an "ordinance". In the sacrament of communion the belief is that the eucharist becomes the literal flesh, essence etc. of Christ. In the ordinance of the Lord's Supper the belief is that the cracker (that's what we use) is a remembrance of the sacrifice of Christ. So in the ordinance there is no "transformation". If you can think of a better word for saying some words, waving hands and turning bread into flesh... than magic spell... then more power to ya.

[12volt_man]

1-Is an ordained minister required to perform a baptism?

No, although it usually is done by the pastor or elders, in those baptist churches that have elders.

I am co-leader of a cooperative fellowship that ministers to sailors, fishermen and others around the northern Chesapeake Bay area (think Chestertown, Wharton, Georgetown, etc).

I haven't done a baptism yet but if there were one in our tiny little fellowship, I'd be the guy who did it.

1a- In the even that a non-baptized person was dying, and there was no possibility that a minister could baptize them, would a non-ordained person be allowed to confer the sacrament?

Yes but you do understand that, to the baptist, baptism isn't a requirement for salvation, right? So it's not imperative that someone be baptised before they died.

2-How do Baptists/Anabaptists regard the Lord's Supper?

In regard to what?

The Lord's Supper is simply a time of reflection and an opportunity to memorialize Christ's sacrifice on the cross.

It is purely symbolic and is not a means of imparting grace.

Is an ordained minister required for this sacrament?

No. I'm the de facto music minister in my church (not ordained) and the deacons (also not ordained) and I often help out with the Lord's Supper.

By the way, someone made the point that we have "ordinances" as opposed to "sacraments". That's true but for the sake of this conversation I'll accept either one.

[12volt_man]

The quote was intended to differentiate between a "sacrament" and an "ordinance". In the sacrament of communion the belief is that the eucharist becomes the literal flesh, essence etc. of Christ. In the ordinance of the Lord's Supper the belief is that the cracker (that's what we use) is a remembrance of the sacrifice of Christ. So in the ordinance there is no "transformation". If you can think of a better word for saying some words, waving hands and turning bread into flesh... than magic spell... then more power to ya.

You might disagree with the way Catholicism practices communion, as do I, but let's show a little grace here and disagree respectfully.

[LuxPerpetua]

If you can think of a better word for saying some words, waving hands and turning bread into flesh... than magic spell... then more power to ya.

Well, Lutherans believe that it is not by "magic" but by Christ's promise in Scripture, so yes, we can think of better words. :)

[BT]

You might disagree with the way Catholicism practices communion, as do I, but let's show a little grace here and disagree respectfully.
I did.

[BT]

Well, Lutherans believe that it is not by "magic" but by Christ's promise in Scripture, so yes, we can think of better words. :)

Don't push it Lux, you are not permitted to debate here.

[LuxPerpetua]

I wasn't debating, only answering your question. Thanks for the warm welcome. :)

[BT]

Well, Lutherans believe that it is not by "magic" but by Christ's promise in Scripture, so yes, we can think of better words. :)
This is a debate seed. What the Lutherans believe is not i.e. it's Christ's promise. Is a sure way to start a debate in here. Mask it all you like, it is what it is. We're all interested in peace in here, look for that thread and read it. This is not a way to maintain that peace.

[LuxPerpetua]

This is a debate seed. What the Lutherans believe is not i.e. it's Christ's promise. Is a sure way to start a debate in here. Mask it all you like, it is what it is. We're all interested in peace in here, look for that thread and read it. This is not a way to maintain that peace.

Well, it wasn't intended as a "debate seed" as you call it, but just to say that Lutherans most certainly believe it is Christ's promise and we take great offense at something that we consider sacred being called "magic." There are far better ways that you could have chosen to phrase your disagreement. You asked for "better words" and I gave them to you, but that doesn't mean you must agree with me.

God bless you! :crosself:

[BT]

Your "better words" would be by some considered heresy. I suppose some might have preferred "magic". To come into the Baptist forum, state a Lutheran doctrine, and quasi-support it with scripture, is not a debate seed? Then dear one you do not know Baptists.

[BT]

I wasn't debating, only answering your question. Thanks for the warm welcome. :)
I'm not currently a member of the Baptist/Anabaptist forum welcome wagon. Bleechers is but he's taking a short vacation... sorry.

[GreenEyedLady]

All of the OP have been answered. Unless there are any more questions, IMHO, I don't see why this thread should continue into a downward spirel...........................
GEL

[LuxPerpetua]

I'm not here to debate doctrine or what is or isn't heresy, but just pointing out that what you said was disrespectful in the way that you phrased your opinion. As a sister in Christ, I am called upon by Scripture (as per 2 Tim 4:2), to remind you to speak in love and gentleness to other Christians. Ephesians 5:4 comes to mind, as does Eph 5:19.

I'm not currently a member of the Baptist/Anabaptist forum welcome wagon.

Apparently. Fruits of the spirit are important, though. Colossians 3:12-14 is a good general refresher.

God bless! :crosself:

[theseed]

"Communion is a sacrament in that it is an external and visible sign of an internal and spiritual reality"

"Thus, in additions to Communion and Lord's Supper, another appropiate term is "Eucharist" or "thanksgiving" (In the protestant sense). (Hallbrooks 1999, p. 188)


Hallbrooks, G.T. (1999) Communion. A Baptist's Theology. R. Wayne Stacey, Ed. Macon, GA: Smyth & Helwys Publishing, inc.

[BT]

This is the thing. We'll get someone who comes in from time to time and asks a question. We'll answer the question then a disagreement begins. The next thing you know we get the Baptist (who, are members of this forum) getting warnings or banned. Then we decide it's a good idea to start a thread about keeping the peace. So we start the thread and then a few hours later the cycle starts again. So when a person comes in who is not a Baptist and does not start a "fellowship" post, or who inserts or declares their doctrinal positions we are always the ones who end up in trouble. I am tired of seeing the Baptist/Anabaptists getting in trouble in our own forum. So you can kindly refrain from your sarcasm, and not get me into any more trouble than I'm already in. What you think is irrelavent, what your doctrine as a Lutheran is is also irrelevant to this conversation, which is in the Baptist/Anabaptist forum.

[RED that's ME]

MOD HAT ON

The OP question has been answered sufficently and this thread is now closed.

MOD HAT OFF