Does this mean what I think it means?

[jcright]

I receive, in an e-mail, one bible chapter a day. I recently received Proverbs Chapter 31 and was a little puzzled by the following:

Proverbs Chapter 31
6. Give beer to those who are perishing, wine to those who are in anguish;

7. let them drink and forget their poverty and remember their

misery no more



I'd be interested in people's thoughts.

[ZiSunka]

Alcohol was medicine, too, back then, not just a recreational drink. It was medicine for pain and emotional distress. So this passage is saying that if someone is in pain or distress, it's okay to take medicine for it.

[mesue]

I receive, in an e-mail, one bible chapter a day. I recently received Proverbs Chapter 31 and was a little puzzled by the following:

Proverbs Chapter 31
6. Give beer to those who are perishing, wine to those who are in anguish;

7. let them drink and forget their poverty and remember their

misery no more



I'd be interested in people's thoughts.Proverbs 31:4-7

We did a brief study about that in church awhile back. to perish is to die unsaved, anguish is the suffering (wailing and gnashing of teeth).

[Gold Dragon]

The narcotic properties of alcohol was known at the time of the Proverbs and I think that property is being recognized by King Lemuel's mother as not being appropriate for those who are responsible for governing others like kings and princes, which her son was, or was going to be.

Its narcotic properties were often used for those who suffer physical pain (perishing), like how we currently use morphine and those who suffer emotional pain (misery/poverty/heavy hearted). Not necessarily justifying those uses, but acknowledging them.

Just a thought and I could always be wrong. :)

I guess we haven't had an alcohol discussion since I arrived on this forum, which is always a touchy subject with baptists and conservatives. :Cheers: ;)

[SumTinWong]

Not a tea totaler here although that does run in my family as my great gandmother was a Rechabite (http://www.isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook/history/socs/rechab.htm).

I don't know, they gave morpine to dying soldiers perhaps they were saying, it was compassionate to relieve the suffering?

[Crazy Liz]

Drugs and alcohol are for those whose suffering can't be helped any other way. Those who have responsibilities and means to solve problems should be sober.

[jcright]

Not a tea totaler here although that does run in my family as my great gandmother was a Rechabite (http://www.isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook/history/socs/rechab.htm).

I don't know, they gave morpine to dying soldiers perhaps they were saying, it was compassionate to relieve the suffering?
Alrighty, I'm going to hijack my own thread...

Doesn't this sound almost like assisted suicide?

[ZiSunka]

Suicide? No, it doesn't.

Where do you see drinking yourself to death in any of that???

[Crazy Liz]

Alrighty, I'm going to hijack my own thread...

Doesn't this sound almost like assisted suicide?

Terminal pain relief often does at least seem to hasten death, but it's not assisted suicide.

I've seen dying people refuse narcotics while taking care of their "unfinished business," then accept the pain relief and die within a day or two. There is a complex relationship between the social, spiritual, emotional and physical processes of dying. If you pay attention, the dying person will tell you what they need. Some need every bit of consciousness they can get. It's wrong to give these people narcotics - at least beyond the very minimum. In most cases, though, any pain relief for a dying person is an act of mercy. The question to ask is whether you are giving or withholding treatment for the dying person's reasons or your own. It is painful to be around a person who is in pain and conscious, but unable to communicate. We'd rather see them appear to sleep peacefully. Yet I've been around a dying person who seemed to want all the consciousness she could get, even though severely brain damaged and apparently unconscious most of the time. Sensing when, and to what extent, this is the right thing to do is difficult. You have to know the person, but even then you might be wrong. If they can communicate, and their caregivers are willing to listen, they will usually tell you.

No, giving pain relief is not the same as assisted suicide. Narcotic pain relief often does seem to hasten death, but the cause-and-effect relationships are not completely clear. The last dying person I was close to died within a day or two of accepting morphine, but several other important things happened in the last few days. She said goodbye to the people who were important to her. Only when she sensed they were willing to let her go did she let the nurses put the morphine patch on her.

When you see this process up close, it turns out to be much less simple than it is in theory.

[Carrye]

^Well said.

[eldermike]

Drugs and alcohol are for those whose suffering can't be helped any other way. Those who have responsibilities and means to solve problems should be sober.

This is what it means.

[jcright]

My thanks to all of you! You've helped me out quite a bit on this verse.

Thanks again!

John

[SumTinWong]

Alrighty, I'm going to hijack my own thread...

Doesn't this sound almost like assisted suicide?

No actually in the case of the soldiers most of them were beyond help and the doctors gave them morphine to kill the pain. Gives them a peaceful end, really.