Real Presence of God

[ej]

Back to ask another question...

Those of you who know me, know I'd genuinely like to know the answer.
Those of you who do not - please do not assume I am debating. I am not! I'd like to know your thoughts :)


Do Protestants believe in the real presence of God in their churches and homes, or do they pray to Him symbolically?

If the former, then why does He have a real presence in the church but not in the Communion bread and wine?

Thanks
Emma :prayer:

[JOYfulbeliever]

Hey Emma! :hug:

Wow...I'm not sure I have the perfect answer for this question, but I'll give it a shot.

**this is *my* beliefs...others may feel differently**

God absolutely is a real presence in my church...but not just in my church, He is a real presence in my life - in every aspect of it, whether at church, at work, at school, at sporting events, at whatever. God is a real presence because He lives within me...but I think you already knew that point...heehee :D

As for communion...the bread and *ahem* grape juice (:D) are taken symbolically to represent the body and blood of Christ. We do not serve fermented wine...that would imply that Christ's blood was tainted, thus signifying He was a sinner, which is blasphemy. At my church, we also serve unleavened bread - which quite frankly, tastes like stale bread! :sick:

The bread and wine do not literally become the body and blood of Christ. That isn't necessary, nor do I believe it to be Biblical, personally. God is still a real presence - however, it's a spiritual presence, not a physical presence. The same presence that is in our church and lives. By placing the bread in our mouth, we are not remembering Christ by our mouth, but by our faith. The same goes with the wine/juice. Just like Baptism (water immersion), the Lord's Supper is symbolic. With baptism, it is symbolic of being "buried with Christ, and raised to walk in newness of life in Christ Jesus." (to quote my pastor ;)) The Lord's Supper is symbolic of His Death and is to be done until His Return. Christ has already died and rose again - the payment has already been made. The Lord's Supper is to *remember* that. "Do this in rememberence of me."

On a side note, many Baptist churches also have the Lord's Supper at night - because that was when it took place. Little bit of trivia. ;)

[tigersnare]

Back to ask another question...

Do Protestants believe in the real presence of God in their churches and homes, or do they pray to Him symbolically?

First, God is omnipresent. Second, We are living, breathing, eating, drinking, holy temples, God's very spirit is present in us, just like he was present in the Temple in the O.T. So everywhere I go, God is there. :prayer:

I'm not really sure if "symbolic" prayer even exist....not sure how that would work... :confused:


If the former, then why does He have a real presence in the church but not in the Communion bread and wine?


Well the problem with what you are asking is this. You believe the bread becomes flesh, and the wine becomes blood.

If we go on this basis, you are asking, "Do you have the flesh and blood of Jesus in your church and in your home", no God is not something I can touch, taste, or smell. So when I'm walking around, there is no Blood and Flesh in my pocket with me everywhere I go.

Yes it is a redicoulous answer...but your definition of "real presence" is not our definition.

My problem is real presence vs what......? fake presence, false presence....God is present in everything. I just don't eat his actual flesh and drink his actual blood.

[JVAC]

Back to ask another question...

Those of you who know me, know I'd genuinely like to know the answer.
Those of you who do not - please do not assume I am debating. I am not! I'd like to know your thoughts :)


Do Protestants believe in the real presence of God in their churches and homes, or do they pray to Him symbolically?

If the former, then why does He have a real presence in the church but not in the Communion bread and wine?

Thanks
Emma :prayer:
Well this is an easy one; Yes God is present via the Holy Spirit! You know that whole 'where two or three are gathered in my name...' bit. So God is present in our worship.

Next, We never had a problem acknowledging the body and blood of Christ in the Holy Sacrament of the Altar! It is the Anabaptists that have that problem.

It is quite interesting to see that post after post, the Anglican/Lutheran/Moravian view of the Holy Sacrament gets cut out in favour of the minority protestant opinion. Thread after thread of Lutherans and Anglicans arguing for Real Pressence and still no one recognizes that most Protestants believe in Real Pressence.

Ok, I'll stop venting.

-James

[Phoebe]

Yes, Christ is present in a spiritual sense. In the Eucharist, in my home, my church, in me.

[PatrickM]

I understand the deep feelings regarding the sacraments, coming from a Catholic upbringing. This statement should not be construed as a subtle, "but I saw the 'truth'" backhand, merely a historical note.

Personally, I do not equate the presence of Christ in my life with the taking of the bread and fruit of the vine. When He promised His Holy Spirit to be in my life, the sacraments weren't mentioned, such as the example in John when He breathed on the disciples and said "Receive the Holy Spirit."

Without meaning to lessen them, I rather see the receiving of bread and fruit of the vine to be an outward declaration of my rememberance of Christ's sacrifice for my sins, i.e. broken body, shed blood, as well as a personal rememberance of the same.

I believe I can have His presence in my life by His promise of such.

[dsdumpling]

During the Last Supper with his disciples the wine and bread were symbolic for them. The original dinner didn't have them eating Jesus' flesh or drinking Jesus' blood.

The presence of God is within me wherever I go. The presence of God is in my home, my work, my church, my grocery store. He is omnipresent!

[pmarquette]

The elements are a point of contact , as with James 5.15 ( anointing with oil ) ; as with the icons in your church , the monstrance , ciborrium , etc. a point of focus for faith ...
to meditate upon His benefits ( psalm 103 ) ; as a sign and wonder to the lost ( Mk 16.20 ) ; as a point of unity within the faith ; in conjunction with the reading of the Word & epistile -- followed by teaching and explaination ( homily ) .....

In the books of acts the apostles started the deaconate ... to free them up for
study of the word and the breaking of the bread ( prayer , meditation , study , preparation for teaching , preaching , and exhorting the flock ). Unfortunately , one side of the fence does the book and the other the bread .... both of us are partly right and lacking in part ...

[Metanoia02]

It is quite interesting to see that post after post, the Anglican/Lutheran/Moravian view of the Holy Sacrament gets cut out in favour of the minority protestant opinion. Thread after thread of Lutherans and Anglicans arguing for Real Pressence and still no one recognizes that most Protestants believe in Real Pressence.
-James
When you look at Christianity as a whole the vast majority of Christians believe in the Real Presence.

[eldermike]

When you look at Christianity as a whole the vast majority of Christians believe in the Real Presence.
I have taken exams in a class where everyone in the class got the wrong answer on a question.:)

[Metanoia02]

I have taken exams in a class where everyone in the class got the wrong answer on a question.:)
Fortunately for us it is an open book test. Read John 6.

[eldermike]

Fortunately for us it is an open book test. Read John 6.
I know, how could they get it wrong?

[ej]

Thanks to those of you who gave helpful and inspiring answers - I think I managed to PM most of you :)

[ChoirDir]

To go a bit further on what ej asked. Do you believe when you read your Bible that the Holy Spirit aids you in understanding it? In the Orthodox and Catholic Churches the bread and wine are changed by an invocation of the Holy Spirit. We beleive it to be the body and blood because the Holy Spirit has made the change

[theFijian]

Hebrews 7:27
Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.

I believe the reformed faith holds that Christ's sacrifice on the cross was a once-for-all atoning death and making it unnecesary (and I've heard some say blasphemous) that Christ should be offered up for us again and again.

cheers,
Andy

[BBAS 64]

I know, how could they get it wrong?
Good Day, Mike

I must tell you as a teacher some students can even fail a open book test. It is not un common to have a student that beleives he understands much more that he really does.

BBAS

[BBAS 64]

To go a bit further on what ej asked. Do you believe when you read your Bible that the Holy Spirit aids you in understanding it?

Good Day, ChoirDir

I say Yes!:clap:
Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Joh 14:17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Joh 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Joh 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

Joh 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Joh 14:22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Joh 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Joh 14:25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things


In the Orthodox and Catholic Churches the bread and wine are changed by an invocation of the Holy Spirit. We beleive it to be the body and blood because the Holy Spirit has made the change
I understand this is a belief you and th RCC share is there a Scriptural bases IYO? What is the means and the method to the change the HS makes in your beliefs, how is it verified?

Peace to u,

BBAS

[Oblio]

What is the means and the method to the change the HS makes in your beliefs, how is it verified?


Now faith is the assurance ....