Help with Calvinism and Amyraldianism

[welshchick]

I was wondering if someone could help me a wee bit. I've got a Christian Doctrine exam next week, and i was doing revision this morning and 2 topics that i think will come up in the exam are Calvinism and Amyraldianism.

I don't really understand my notes that i've got from my lecturer, and was wondering if someone could tell me the basics of both these views? or give me a link to a good website about them? Please dont give me anything too heavy or long though, as i've tried a few books but they got way too complicated and i got all confused! i would just like to know the basics of both views.

(it's actually rather embarrassing as i'm a calvinist myself, but i don't really know what his view actually was!)

I'm going to post this in another forum too as i'm not sure which one it would best go in.

[Rep Daddy]

I was wondering if someone could help me a wee bit. I've got a Christian Doctrine exam next week, and i was doing revision this morning and 2 topics that i think will come up in the exam are Calvinism and Amyraldianism.

I don't really understand my notes that i've got from my lecturer, and was wondering if someone could tell me the basics of both these views? or give me a link to a good website about them? Please dont give me anything too heavy or long though, as i've tried a few books but they got way too complicated and i got all confused! i would just like to know the basics of both views.

(it's actually rather embarrassing as i'm a calvinist myself, but i don't really know what his view actually was!)

I'm going to post this in another forum too as i'm not sure which one it would best go in.
Here is a summary from my buddy, Orthodox Presbyterian, from another forum. Amid some great humor it is a good summary... OP is a infralapsarian Calvinist and I am an Amyrauldian. The key to his statement is the order of the decree of the provision of the atonement and the decree of election.



Have I not always said that True Amyrauldians were at least "4-and-1/2 Point Calvinists", or even "5-point Calvinists employing Bad Math"?? (that is, Amyrauldians displace the Order of Atonement and Election within the Orthodox Calvinist ordo salutis, believing that an Infinite Atonement logically precedes the Particular Election).

The fact of the matter is, both Infralapsarianism and Amyrauldism AGREE that the Ordo Salutis begins with Total Depravity -- both Infralapsarianism and Amyrauldism AGREE that Man must be Fallen before we speak of Salvation and Damnation (Salvation from what? Damnation from what?).

Supralapsarianism, on the other hand, does not begin with Total Depravity, but begins with Unconditional Reprobation. From the start. I daresay it is not even TULIP. As such, I am not surprised that I find myself more accomodating towards Amyrauldism than towards Supralapsarianism (I still, of course, think that you are wrong, my revered Fishiness; but not so wrong as the Supralapsarians).

Here is my own view of the variant Calvinist Beliefs:



Orthodox Infralapsarian Calvinism

Total Depravity
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement
Irresistible Grace
Preservation of the Saints


Amyrauldian Calvinism

Total Depravity
Unrestricted Atonement
Limited Election
Irresistible Grace
Preservation of the Saints


Supralapsarian "High Calvinism"

Unconditional Reprobation
No Common Grace
Fall of Man intended only to **** the Reprobate
Arbitrary hatred of God against the Reprobate
Insincere declarations of "Love" for "The World"
Re-Define the Bible to deny God's general benevolence towards His Creation.
"TULIP" (Orthodox Infralapsarian Calvinism), and...
"TULIP" (Variant Amyrauldian Calvinism), and...
..."UNFAIR" (Supralapsarian "High Calvinism").

[James Sez]

I fould some good sites on this. I've never heard of it. You will get the same sites I got if you use Google.
This Calvinist site makes it simple to understand http://www.apuritansmind.com/PuritanWorship/Amyraut%20Universalism.htm

Amyraldianism-Is this like Barth? :holy:

Supralapsarian "High Calvinism"


Unconditional Reprobation
No Common Grace
Fall of Man intended only to **** the Reprobate
Arbitrary hatred of God against the Reprobate
Insincere declarations of "Love" for "The World"
Re-Define the Bible to deny God's general benevolence towards His Creation.
Unfair? :eek: I think not! If I was a Calvinist this is the God I would go for. This makes God as sovereign as you can get. No wimpin' out or cutting corners just to delight the ears of those who would water down the Bible and God's
wrath. http://www.christianforums.com/images/icons/icon14.gif


drstevej-only a gadfly would be a 4 pt calvinist ;)

[Bulldog]

I fould some good sites on this. I've never heard of it. You will get the same sites I got if you use Google.
This Calvinist site makes it simple to understand http://www.apuritansmind.com/PuritanWorship/Amyraut%20Universalism.htm

Amyraldianism-Is this like Barth? :holy:

Supralapsarian "High Calvinism"


Unconditional Reprobation
No Common Grace
Fall of Man intended only to **** the Reprobate
Arbitrary hatred of God against the Reprobate
Insincere declarations of "Love" for "The World"
Re-Define the Bible to deny God's general benevolence towards His Creation.
Unfair? :eek: I think not! If I was a Calvinist this is the God I would go for. This makes God as sovereign as you can get. No wimpin' out or cutting corners just to delight the ears of those who would water down the Bible and God's
wrath. http://www.christianforums.com/images/icons/icon14.gif


drstevej-only a gadfly would be a 4 pt calvinist ;)

I hope you're being sarcastic. I mean c'mon no common grace! :o

[welshchick]

cheers, yeh thats helped a lot. it's taken me all day to get my head around it all! this is what i understand it to be so far:

Calvinism
1. Total depravity
2. Unconditional election
3. Limited Atonement
4. Irrestible grace
5. Perseverance of the saints

Amyraldianism
1. Universal grace
2. Universal atonement
3. Particular election
4. Particular and effective grace to the elect

So basically their view on grace is different, and also Amyraut believed that there was atonement before election (so basically he didnt really believe that God predestined the elect). am I right in this?

And also - Arminianism - that we make the choice whether we'll be saved or not. It's not by God's doing, its our own choice.

is that right?

[Rep Daddy]

So basically their view on grace is different, and also Amyraut believed that there was atonement before election (so basically he didnt really believe that God predestined the elect). am I right in this?

And also - Arminianism - that we make the choice whether we'll be saved or not. It's not by God's doing, its our own choice.

is that right?
Amyraldians would embrace the T,U,I & P of the TULIP (we are No-L Calvinists). We believe that the decree to provide the atonement preceeds logically the decree of election.


Here's a parable I wrote to explain my views...

HEAR A PARABLE of the AMYRALDIAN

A wealthy man buys ten tickets to Hawaii and has his Son pay cash for them. He sends a letter to ten people with a ticket purchased for them and invites them to join him in Hawaii.

He also sends a Special Courier to deliver three of the tickets to a select group of the ten and has the Courier earnestly persuade them to go {His persuasion is irresistable!} The Courier then escorts them onto the plane insuring they get to Hawaii.

The other seven get the letter and the ticket that has been purchased for them, but because they hate the wealthy man [he makes them feel guilty] they refuse to use the ticket. They each think. If I ever go to Hawaii, I'm going MY way. No one is paying my way, especially not That Guy!

The wealthy man, his son and the courier rejoice with the three in Hawaii. The other seven never make it and their tickets, while paid in full, are never used. While the three are in the beauty of Hawaii with the wealthy man a plague strikes the home towns of the seven and they perish.

NOTE: This is an artificially constructed parable to show how the price can be paid in full for those who refuse to receive the gift. The Father's election and the Spirit's persuasion are limited to the elect, yet a ticket purchased by the Son is legitimately extended to all.

Unlimited Atonement yet Limited Attainment is Amyraldianism